Paphitis wrote:Get Real! wrote:shahmaran wrote:So let me get this straight, you were happy to the watch the TC's starve to death in the enclaves after refusing them their right in the government, but you imagined that if Turkey did ever come to help them out, it would actually do what?
That's a question you should ask Turkey (or the TMT)... "Why did you drive the TC community into ghettos like a herd of cattle, to starve them off?"
Or did they sell you a... "They made me do it!" again?
Excellent point GR!
This point was discussed extensively here:
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... es&start=0
If you remember, no one has been able to counter the notion that the TMT herded the TCs, some at gunpoint, into enclaves to more easily facilitate partition or Taksim.
Shah wrote:About the guy on the flag pole, none of the country examples you provided are actually accurate since none of them had to make a choice in a situation which was the same as Cyprus at that time and place (borders, military zone, war zone, riots and provocation).
But leave that to a side, if you really want to compare their "humanity" you can simply look at the state of the countries where the military of the above examples has reached and how the civilians are treated.
So excuse my language but what the fuck are you talking about?
Have you not heard of Iraq, Afghanistan, the British Empire, Vietnam, the Aborigines and many many more nations who have suffered in the hands of the so called "civilised west" and here you are using them as a good example to how a civilian should be treated? Maybe we should talk about how the riots against the Imperialists were encountered in Africa?
All we get is inconsistencies and double standards from the brainwashed TCs such as Shah!
Apparently, the Turkish Invasion was defensive, and yet he criticises the US, Australia and Britain over Afghanistan.
You would think that if he was at least consistent, logical and demonstrated some rationale and reason, then surely the Afghan War against the Taliban and Al Qaeda is also a defensive move by those countries involved.
YET AGAIN, ANOTHER TC DOUBLE STANDARD IS EXPOSED!
Shah wrote:So let me get this straight, you were happy to the watch the TC's starve to death in the enclaves after refusing them their right in the government, but you imagined that if Turkey did ever come to help them out, it would actually do what? Come talk to you? Maybe use some super special strategy to evacuate the TC's alone and hopefully not hurt a single GC? Maybe they can force themselves into the island against all the fierce resistance from the GC's which was backed by the Greek's and maybe bring us aid and protection and then start some talks regarding the future of the island? What was it that you expected to happen?! Do you actually know of a rescue operation where time was crucial as the enemy had started to execute the civilians en-mass, but the rescuers had to worry about the well being of the enemy rather than their own and of those to be rescued? How many Turkish soldiers died in order to actually get to us?
Here is a snippet from the above thread, that no TC has adequately been able to counter:
Here is the evidence that really does clear the air about Turkish propaganda with regards to the enclaves:In addition to the hostile environment that was created by combatants on both sides, there was a second factor that led to the polarization of both communities: with a view toward partition, the Turks withdrew from predominantly Greek areas and evicted Greeks from areas where Turks were in the majority.Turkish extremists forced several thousand Turkish peasants to abandon their farms and animals and move into an overcrowded Turkish enclave in Nicosia.
And any TC that resisted or refused to abandon their homes and move into enclaves were either murdered or went missing:Turkish Cypriots who favoured compromise or a close relationship between the two ethnic communities were targets of TMT violence.In Limassol, a Turkish Cypriot owner of a restaurant popular with Greeks was threatened and later murdered by the TMT.Two progressive-thinking, London-educated Turkish barristers who spoke against partition were killed outright by these same Turkish gangs.
The sole aim of the enclaves was so that the TMT extremists were more easily able to gather all TCs and mobilise them towards partition. This could not be achieved if the TCs remained scattered all over Cyprus."Thus the aim of partition, camouflaged by Turkish propaganda as `federation,' was relentlessly pursued regardless of loss of human life and the human misery created.
On 23 Dec 63, Turkish Gangs force Armenians to abandon their homes, shops, schools and clubs at gunpoint, to make more room for TCs and create another enclave within the Armenian quarter of Nicosia.On December 23, 1963, Turkish gangs also moved through the Armenian quarter of Nicosia and forced the inhabitants at gunpoint to leave their houses, shops, church, school and clubs to make room for more Turks.
http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.html
Therefore, we can conclude that the TC claims that enclaves were set up for protection against the Greeks is false. The primary objective for the TMT was TAKSIM!
Greek Cypriots attacked Kokkina for security and defensive purposes, as the TMT, the TCs and Turkey were smuggling weapons through the Kokkina Beachhead:The First Cyprus Crisis
In the night from 20 to 21 December 1963, a car carrying weapons for Turkish Cypriots in the Omorfita, a district of Nicosia – where armed resistance was organized – was halted on a police roadblock. After a few minutes a large crowd, mainly consisting of Turkish Cypriots, assembled nearby and the situation heated up, resulting in exchange of fire in which one policeman and two Turks were killed. This mini-uprising of Turkish Cypriots ended by Christmas of the same year, but there more skirmishes followed, as since that time Turkey began systematically organising and arming students and men younger than 30 into small units, equipped with personal weapons, bazookas and mortars. Several loads of food and ammunition were shipped from Turkey to Cyprus during the following winter, mainly by small boats and by night, which were landing in the Kokkina area.
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_454.shtml
Samarkeolog Wrote:When they attacked, Turkey bombed them back. So, the Greek Cypriots might have needed the Greeks to protect them from the Turks, but only because the Greek Cypriots attacked the Turkish Cypriots. If the Greek Cypriots hadn't attacked the Turkish Cypriots, the Turks wouldn't have attacked the Greek Cypriots.
If the TCs were not smuggling weapons from Turkey in order to further their campaign for TAKSIM, then the GCs would not have attacked.
The GCs were merely defending their island as it was evident that Kokkina was a major national threat to Cypriot Sovereignty, due to TMT weapon smuggling:
GR Wrote:Had you done your homework you would’ve known that the Kokkina enclave was in fact a TMT forces enclave, which had a sea port that regularly received arms and other supplies from Turkish boats that fuelled the TC armed uprisings all over the island, and ultimately making it vital for Turkey’s goal of partition on Cyprus by providing her with a safe beachhead for a military ground invasion.
The fact that the TAF conducted the first aerial bombings on Cyprus as a result of the Kokkina threat by opposing forces is further concrete evidence of the importance of Kokkina for Turkey because had Kokkina fallen the entire Turkish ulterior motive for Cyprus would’ve fallen to pieces.
Therefore, the RoC government was correct in its evaluation that the Kokkina point was a major national threat and had to go! After all, the major population of Cyprus was an 82% overwhelming majority of Greek Cypriots that the Kokkina point was directly threatening.
So in order to defend the Kokkina beachhead, the TAF bombs Cyprus using these aircraft:
THK F-100 Super Sabres were very active over Cyprus in 1964. This artwork, reconstructed from several photographs showing different Turkish "Huns" in the 1960s, depicts one of F-100D in service with the THK at the time. The THK received also a sizeable batch of F-100Cs, but only from 1970 onwards. (Artwork by Tom Cooper)
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_454.shtml
They had dropped over 750lbs (340kg) of bombs and napalm:Turkish jets had dropped 750lbs (340 kg) of bombs and napalm on their strongholds in north-west Cyprus.
"The whole area is on fire," said a spokesman for the Cypriot government.
"We cannot estimate casualties but there must be hundreds. Whole villages have been wiped out."
They also accused the Turkish government of landing troops on the north-west coast of the island.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 037898.stm
Therefore, it still stands to reason that the main objective of the TMT, was TAKSIM. Enclaves, were established to mainly assist the TMT with their mission. They armed themselves to the teeth, by smuggling arms from Turkey to Kokkina, so that they can continue with their terror campaign for TAKSIM.
Shah wrote:There is NO EXCUSE to execute villages full of unarmed civilians and then bury them into mass graves, what is this defence? Attacks? A statement maybe? Or maybe one last blow before defeat? What was it? Can you even explain it?
Totally agree. Just like there was no excuse for Turkey to invade and kill 10,000 mostly civilian GCs, as not even one TC was hurt by the Coup.
And just like there was no excuse to murder an unarmed Solomos climbing your flap pole. Were you defending your military advantage against one civilian armed with a cigarette were you?
This was a COWARDLY act!
Shah wrote:Excuse me but I live in Cyprus and I would NEVER EVER dare to pull a stunt as that guy on the pole did because I am absolutely certain about what the outcome would be. He made his choice and he knew very well what he was up against and it was no surprise.
As much as I do accept that it was wrong and sick and inhumane, I can also see that the guy was an absolute idiot for doing something like that. What is he a hero now? Has his death helped his cause in any way? No, all he did was make his loved ones suffer and become another propaganda tool for his fascist state. Good work Solomon.
The RoC would never kill an unarmed civilian for climbing a flag pole. That is just not the way things are done in democratic western countries.
So what if an unarmed civilian manages to burn our flag. It is only a piece of cloth, and it hardly justifies the murder of an unarmed civilian.
Shah wrote:I'm sick and tired of these bias views to be honest, I am happy to accept the wrong doings of all sides but this shit about the GC's being ever so innocent and always the victim and the crocodile tears, sometimes I am so glad the TRNC exists.
You have done a fine job showing us your biased views by demonstrating inconsistencies within your own thoughts, a lack of rationale and logic. Well Done!
your argument was riddled with massive hypocrisy.
But nevertheless, I DO accept the wrong doings of my side. I do regret the loss of all TC victims no matter what! If I could bring them all back, I would.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, I will be off line until early August. I wish you all well!
DT. wrote:shahmaran wrote:DT. wrote:shahmaran wrote:Paphitis your fairy tale is indeed intriguing never the less far from the reality of what the people had gone through over here, so its funny you talk about bias and brain washing.
I'm sorry but I will go with real witnesses rather than "neutral Australian" stories about what had happened in a lovely GC ethnocentric fairy land.
You are yet to explain me the reason why one would execute villages of unarmed civilians and bury them into mass graves but all I get is Piratis style whishwash of some delusional hallucinations from another dimension.
Why Paphitis? Why would buses full of GC civilians drive down to Lefke and start attacking everyone while their counterparts start digging huge graves on the outskirts of the village?
Are you typing this page long junk with pictures in order to dilute my questions? Be a man not a politician and give me a straight answer. Why would a community who had the military upper hand use it to murder TC's en-mass if they were just "defending"?
I'm sorry but you can never convince me that the "civilised western democratic RoC (!!! LOL)" would never have shot a trespasser out to bring down your flag, purely on your bias assumptions and love for your illegal Republic. I do admire your patriotic tendencies flying in all the way from Australia, but come on man, what the hell are you on about?
You looking to start a tit for tat on who executed who and go into a sick competition of the most mass murders? Whats your point? As for flagpoles, GC soldiers would wait for the idiot to come down and hand him over to the police. Trust me I know.
No DT.
I just want an answer, that's all, so why don't you let "Mr. I'm neutral and not brainwashed" answer it?
I'm sorry but I would still not risk my self depending on the assumptions of a few people and neither would anyone with a sane mind. Come on DT, are you saying it was a sensible move?
The point, is you can't be sure and it is a very stupid and a very pointless stunt to pull in a very dangerous place with no real outcome. Trespassing military guarded border equals being shot, end of. You cross the wall from East to West Germany YOU WILL BE SHOT as many people have! What have you got to say for them? Are they a barbaric and an uncivilised nation too?
He wanted to be the hero who pulls the flag down before everyone, well unfortunately it didn't quite work out as he hoped.
What would he have achieved by pulling it down anyways and what has he achieved now? Maybe he was after an insult?
Then you need to also comment on the beating the day before in no mans land when tc policemen amongst others beat a man to death live on CNN.
shahmaran wrote:DT. wrote:shahmaran wrote:DT. wrote:shahmaran wrote:Paphitis your fairy tale is indeed intriguing never the less far from the reality of what the people had gone through over here, so its funny you talk about bias and brain washing.
I'm sorry but I will go with real witnesses rather than "neutral Australian" stories about what had happened in a lovely GC ethnocentric fairy land.
You are yet to explain me the reason why one would execute villages of unarmed civilians and bury them into mass graves but all I get is Piratis style whishwash of some delusional hallucinations from another dimension.
Why Paphitis? Why would buses full of GC civilians drive down to Lefke and start attacking everyone while their counterparts start digging huge graves on the outskirts of the village?
Are you typing this page long junk with pictures in order to dilute my questions? Be a man not a politician and give me a straight answer. Why would a community who had the military upper hand use it to murder TC's en-mass if they were just "defending"?
I'm sorry but you can never convince me that the "civilised western democratic RoC (!!! LOL)" would never have shot a trespasser out to bring down your flag, purely on your bias assumptions and love for your illegal Republic. I do admire your patriotic tendencies flying in all the way from Australia, but come on man, what the hell are you on about?
You looking to start a tit for tat on who executed who and go into a sick competition of the most mass murders? Whats your point? As for flagpoles, GC soldiers would wait for the idiot to come down and hand him over to the police. Trust me I know.
No DT.
I just want an answer, that's all, so why don't you let "Mr. I'm neutral and not brainwashed" answer it?
I'm sorry but I would still not risk my self depending on the assumptions of a few people and neither would anyone with a sane mind. Come on DT, are you saying it was a sensible move?
The point, is you can't be sure and it is a very stupid and a very pointless stunt to pull in a very dangerous place with no real outcome. Trespassing military guarded border equals being shot, end of. You cross the wall from East to West Germany YOU WILL BE SHOT as many people have! What have you got to say for them? Are they a barbaric and an uncivilised nation too?
He wanted to be the hero who pulls the flag down before everyone, well unfortunately it didn't quite work out as he hoped.
What would he have achieved by pulling it down anyways and what has he achieved now? Maybe he was after an insult?
Then you need to also comment on the beating the day before in no mans land when tc policemen amongst others beat a man to death live on CNN.
Whats the difference between him and the guy who got shot?
bill cobbett wrote:shahmaran wrote:DT. wrote:shahmaran wrote:DT. wrote:shahmaran wrote:Paphitis your fairy tale is indeed intriguing never the less far from the reality of what the people had gone through over here, so its funny you talk about bias and brain washing.
I'm sorry but I will go with real witnesses rather than "neutral Australian" stories about what had happened in a lovely GC ethnocentric fairy land.
You are yet to explain me the reason why one would execute villages of unarmed civilians and bury them into mass graves but all I get is Piratis style whishwash of some delusional hallucinations from another dimension.
Why Paphitis? Why would buses full of GC civilians drive down to Lefke and start attacking everyone while their counterparts start digging huge graves on the outskirts of the village?
Are you typing this page long junk with pictures in order to dilute my questions? Be a man not a politician and give me a straight answer. Why would a community who had the military upper hand use it to murder TC's en-mass if they were just "defending"?
I'm sorry but you can never convince me that the "civilised western democratic RoC (!!! LOL)" would never have shot a trespasser out to bring down your flag, purely on your bias assumptions and love for your illegal Republic. I do admire your patriotic tendencies flying in all the way from Australia, but come on man, what the hell are you on about?
You looking to start a tit for tat on who executed who and go into a sick competition of the most mass murders? Whats your point? As for flagpoles, GC soldiers would wait for the idiot to come down and hand him over to the police. Trust me I know.
No DT.
I just want an answer, that's all, so why don't you let "Mr. I'm neutral and not brainwashed" answer it?
I'm sorry but I would still not risk my self depending on the assumptions of a few people and neither would anyone with a sane mind. Come on DT, are you saying it was a sensible move?
The point, is you can't be sure and it is a very stupid and a very pointless stunt to pull in a very dangerous place with no real outcome. Trespassing military guarded border equals being shot, end of. You cross the wall from East to West Germany YOU WILL BE SHOT as many people have! What have you got to say for them? Are they a barbaric and an uncivilised nation too?
He wanted to be the hero who pulls the flag down before everyone, well unfortunately it didn't quite work out as he hoped.
What would he have achieved by pulling it down anyways and what has he achieved now? Maybe he was after an insult?
Then you need to also comment on the beating the day before in no mans land when tc policemen amongst others beat a man to death live on CNN.
Whats the difference between him and the guy who got shot?
Reh Shah, for a potentially nice chap you let us all down with your nasty stance on these murders.
The mass murders you highlight are damnable and they have been condemned time and time again. Now why won't you join us in condemning the murders of our brothers Issac and Solomon (may they rest in peace) without any qualifications and to also to condemn their murderers?
By the way, Solomos was killed within days following the brutal clubbing to death, the murder, of his Cousin Issac at the hands of tissy "policemen" and your Green Goat thugs.
Come on mate, condemn the murderers and the Occupation that allows this sort of murderous pollocks.
EPSILON wrote:bill cobbett wrote:shahmaran wrote:DT. wrote:shahmaran wrote:DT. wrote:shahmaran wrote:Paphitis your fairy tale is indeed intriguing never the less far from the reality of what the people had gone through over here, so its funny you talk about bias and brain washing.
I'm sorry but I will go with real witnesses rather than "neutral Australian" stories about what had happened in a lovely GC ethnocentric fairy land.
You are yet to explain me the reason why one would execute villages of unarmed civilians and bury them into mass graves but all I get is Piratis style whishwash of some delusional hallucinations from another dimension.
Why Paphitis? Why would buses full of GC civilians drive down to Lefke and start attacking everyone while their counterparts start digging huge graves on the outskirts of the village?
Are you typing this page long junk with pictures in order to dilute my questions? Be a man not a politician and give me a straight answer. Why would a community who had the military upper hand use it to murder TC's en-mass if they were just "defending"?
I'm sorry but you can never convince me that the "civilised western democratic RoC (!!! LOL)" would never have shot a trespasser out to bring down your flag, purely on your bias assumptions and love for your illegal Republic. I do admire your patriotic tendencies flying in all the way from Australia, but come on man, what the hell are you on about?
You looking to start a tit for tat on who executed who and go into a sick competition of the most mass murders? Whats your point? As for flagpoles, GC soldiers would wait for the idiot to come down and hand him over to the police. Trust me I know.
No DT.
I just want an answer, that's all, so why don't you let "Mr. I'm neutral and not brainwashed" answer it?
I'm sorry but I would still not risk my self depending on the assumptions of a few people and neither would anyone with a sane mind. Come on DT, are you saying it was a sensible move?
The point, is you can't be sure and it is a very stupid and a very pointless stunt to pull in a very dangerous place with no real outcome. Trespassing military guarded border equals being shot, end of. You cross the wall from East to West Germany YOU WILL BE SHOT as many people have! What have you got to say for them? Are they a barbaric and an uncivilised nation too?
He wanted to be the hero who pulls the flag down before everyone, well unfortunately it didn't quite work out as he hoped.
What would he have achieved by pulling it down anyways and what has he achieved now? Maybe he was after an insult?
Then you need to also comment on the beating the day before in no mans land when tc policemen amongst others beat a man to death live on CNN.
Whats the difference between him and the guy who got shot?
Reh Shah, for a potentially nice chap you let us all down with your nasty stance on these murders.
The mass murders you highlight are damnable and they have been condemned time and time again. Now why won't you join us in condemning the murders of our brothers Issac and Solomon (may they rest in peace) without any qualifications and to also to condemn their murderers?
By the way, Solomos was killed within days following the brutal clubbing to death, the murder, of his Cousin Issac at the hands of tissy "policemen" and your Green Goat thugs.
Come on mate, condemn the murderers and the Occupation that allows this sort of murderous pollocks.
Clarification: it was not a murder. It was an official execusion - considerig who executed Solomos. Really what this gentleman is doing today? Is still in the government or in a political party of the famous mafia state in North?
denizaksulu wrote:Paphitis wrote:Get Real! wrote:shahmaran wrote:So let me get this straight, you were happy to the watch the TC's starve to death in the enclaves after refusing them their right in the government, but you imagined that if Turkey did ever come to help them out, it would actually do what?
That's a question you should ask Turkey (or the TMT)... "Why did you drive the TC community into ghettos like a herd of cattle, to starve them off?"
Or did they sell you a... "They made me do it!" again?
Excellent point GR!
This point was discussed extensively here:
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... es&start=0
If you remember, no one has been able to counter the notion that the TMT herded the TCs, some at gunpoint, into enclaves to more easily facilitate partition or Taksim.
Shah wrote:About the guy on the flag pole, none of the country examples you provided are actually accurate since none of them had to make a choice in a situation which was the same as Cyprus at that time and place (borders, military zone, war zone, riots and provocation).
But leave that to a side, if you really want to compare their "humanity" you can simply look at the state of the countries where the military of the above examples has reached and how the civilians are treated.
So excuse my language but what the fuck are you talking about?
Have you not heard of Iraq, Afghanistan, the British Empire, Vietnam, the Aborigines and many many more nations who have suffered in the hands of the so called "civilised west" and here you are using them as a good example to how a civilian should be treated? Maybe we should talk about how the riots against the Imperialists were encountered in Africa?
All we get is inconsistencies and double standards from the brainwashed TCs such as Shah!
Apparently, the Turkish Invasion was defensive, and yet he criticises the US, Australia and Britain over Afghanistan.
You would think that if he was at least consistent, logical and demonstrated some rationale and reason, then surely the Afghan War against the Taliban and Al Qaeda is also a defensive move by those countries involved.
YET AGAIN, ANOTHER TC DOUBLE STANDARD IS EXPOSED!
Shah wrote:So let me get this straight, you were happy to the watch the TC's starve to death in the enclaves after refusing them their right in the government, but you imagined that if Turkey did ever come to help them out, it would actually do what? Come talk to you? Maybe use some super special strategy to evacuate the TC's alone and hopefully not hurt a single GC? Maybe they can force themselves into the island against all the fierce resistance from the GC's which was backed by the Greek's and maybe bring us aid and protection and then start some talks regarding the future of the island? What was it that you expected to happen?! Do you actually know of a rescue operation where time was crucial as the enemy had started to execute the civilians en-mass, but the rescuers had to worry about the well being of the enemy rather than their own and of those to be rescued? How many Turkish soldiers died in order to actually get to us?
Here is a snippet from the above thread, that no TC has adequately been able to counter:
Here is the evidence that really does clear the air about Turkish propaganda with regards to the enclaves:In addition to the hostile environment that was created by combatants on both sides, there was a second factor that led to the polarization of both communities: with a view toward partition, the Turks withdrew from predominantly Greek areas and evicted Greeks from areas where Turks were in the majority.Turkish extremists forced several thousand Turkish peasants to abandon their farms and animals and move into an overcrowded Turkish enclave in Nicosia.
And any TC that resisted or refused to abandon their homes and move into enclaves were either murdered or went missing:Turkish Cypriots who favoured compromise or a close relationship between the two ethnic communities were targets of TMT violence.In Limassol, a Turkish Cypriot owner of a restaurant popular with Greeks was threatened and later murdered by the TMT.Two progressive-thinking, London-educated Turkish barristers who spoke against partition were killed outright by these same Turkish gangs.
The sole aim of the enclaves was so that the TMT extremists were more easily able to gather all TCs and mobilise them towards partition. This could not be achieved if the TCs remained scattered all over Cyprus."Thus the aim of partition, camouflaged by Turkish propaganda as `federation,' was relentlessly pursued regardless of loss of human life and the human misery created.
On 23 Dec 63, Turkish Gangs force Armenians to abandon their homes, shops, schools and clubs at gunpoint, to make more room for TCs and create another enclave within the Armenian quarter of Nicosia.On December 23, 1963, Turkish gangs also moved through the Armenian quarter of Nicosia and forced the inhabitants at gunpoint to leave their houses, shops, church, school and clubs to make room for more Turks.
http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.html
Therefore, we can conclude that the TC claims that enclaves were set up for protection against the Greeks is false. The primary objective for the TMT was TAKSIM!
Greek Cypriots attacked Kokkina for security and defensive purposes, as the TMT, the TCs and Turkey were smuggling weapons through the Kokkina Beachhead:The First Cyprus Crisis
In the night from 20 to 21 December 1963, a car carrying weapons for Turkish Cypriots in the Omorfita, a district of Nicosia – where armed resistance was organized – was halted on a police roadblock. After a few minutes a large crowd, mainly consisting of Turkish Cypriots, assembled nearby and the situation heated up, resulting in exchange of fire in which one policeman and two Turks were killed. This mini-uprising of Turkish Cypriots ended by Christmas of the same year, but there more skirmishes followed, as since that time Turkey began systematically organising and arming students and men younger than 30 into small units, equipped with personal weapons, bazookas and mortars. Several loads of food and ammunition were shipped from Turkey to Cyprus during the following winter, mainly by small boats and by night, which were landing in the Kokkina area.
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_454.shtml
Samarkeolog Wrote:When they attacked, Turkey bombed them back. So, the Greek Cypriots might have needed the Greeks to protect them from the Turks, but only because the Greek Cypriots attacked the Turkish Cypriots. If the Greek Cypriots hadn't attacked the Turkish Cypriots, the Turks wouldn't have attacked the Greek Cypriots.
If the TCs were not smuggling weapons from Turkey in order to further their campaign for TAKSIM, then the GCs would not have attacked.
The GCs were merely defending their island as it was evident that Kokkina was a major national threat to Cypriot Sovereignty, due to TMT weapon smuggling:
GR Wrote:Had you done your homework you would’ve known that the Kokkina enclave was in fact a TMT forces enclave, which had a sea port that regularly received arms and other supplies from Turkish boats that fuelled the TC armed uprisings all over the island, and ultimately making it vital for Turkey’s goal of partition on Cyprus by providing her with a safe beachhead for a military ground invasion.
The fact that the TAF conducted the first aerial bombings on Cyprus as a result of the Kokkina threat by opposing forces is further concrete evidence of the importance of Kokkina for Turkey because had Kokkina fallen the entire Turkish ulterior motive for Cyprus would’ve fallen to pieces.
Therefore, the RoC government was correct in its evaluation that the Kokkina point was a major national threat and had to go! After all, the major population of Cyprus was an 82% overwhelming majority of Greek Cypriots that the Kokkina point was directly threatening.
So in order to defend the Kokkina beachhead, the TAF bombs Cyprus using these aircraft:
THK F-100 Super Sabres were very active over Cyprus in 1964. This artwork, reconstructed from several photographs showing different Turkish "Huns" in the 1960s, depicts one of F-100D in service with the THK at the time. The THK received also a sizeable batch of F-100Cs, but only from 1970 onwards. (Artwork by Tom Cooper)
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_454.shtml
They had dropped over 750lbs (340kg) of bombs and napalm:Turkish jets had dropped 750lbs (340 kg) of bombs and napalm on their strongholds in north-west Cyprus.
"The whole area is on fire," said a spokesman for the Cypriot government.
"We cannot estimate casualties but there must be hundreds. Whole villages have been wiped out."
They also accused the Turkish government of landing troops on the north-west coast of the island.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 037898.stm
Therefore, it still stands to reason that the main objective of the TMT, was TAKSIM. Enclaves, were established to mainly assist the TMT with their mission. They armed themselves to the teeth, by smuggling arms from Turkey to Kokkina, so that they can continue with their terror campaign for TAKSIM.
Shah wrote:There is NO EXCUSE to execute villages full of unarmed civilians and then bury them into mass graves, what is this defence? Attacks? A statement maybe? Or maybe one last blow before defeat? What was it? Can you even explain it?
Totally agree. Just like there was no excuse for Turkey to invade and kill 10,000 mostly civilian GCs, as not even one TC was hurt by the Coup.
And just like there was no excuse to murder an unarmed Solomos climbing your flap pole. Were you defending your military advantage against one civilian armed with a cigarette were you?
This was a COWARDLY act!
Shah wrote:Excuse me but I live in Cyprus and I would NEVER EVER dare to pull a stunt as that guy on the pole did because I am absolutely certain about what the outcome would be. He made his choice and he knew very well what he was up against and it was no surprise.
As much as I do accept that it was wrong and sick and inhumane, I can also see that the guy was an absolute idiot for doing something like that. What is he a hero now? Has his death helped his cause in any way? No, all he did was make his loved ones suffer and become another propaganda tool for his fascist state. Good work Solomon.
The RoC would never kill an unarmed civilian for climbing a flag pole. That is just not the way things are done in democratic western countries.
So what if an unarmed civilian manages to burn our flag. It is only a piece of cloth, and it hardly justifies the murder of an unarmed civilian.
Shah wrote:I'm sick and tired of these bias views to be honest, I am happy to accept the wrong doings of all sides but this shit about the GC's being ever so innocent and always the victim and the crocodile tears, sometimes I am so glad the TRNC exists.
You have done a fine job showing us your biased views by demonstrating inconsistencies within your own thoughts, a lack of rationale and logic. Well Done!
your argument was riddled with massive hypocrisy.
But nevertheless, I DO accept the wrong doings of my side. I do regret the loss of all TC victims no matter what! If I could bring them all back, I would.
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Anyway, I will be off line until early August. I wish you all well!
Paphitis says,
'If you remember, no one has been able to counter the notion that the TMT herded the TCs, some at gunpoint, into enclaves to more easily facilitate partition or Taksim.'.
I have to disagree with him.
I have countered these arguments a few times, but as usual it fell on deaf ears.
Unless you lived during the period you will not understand. Yes the TMT did exist. Yes, they were in charge of the defence of the civilian population. Yes, they did advise them to move into areas for better protection against the GC paramilitaries who were very active at the time. Tc villagers in remote areas were attacked and murdered all over the island, especially so in remote areas. At the time perhaps Greek Cypriot civilians also lost their lives. It was the right and common sensical view that the peasants only hope for survival was to gather in 'strong enclaves'.
It is my personal opinio that when the peasants moved to 'safe' areas, Partition' could not be further from their minds. It was their lives they were protecting. The intention was that as soon as things calmed down, that they would return to their homes. But ofcourse the GCs played right into Turkeys hands. This is the mess we find ourselves in.
bill cobbett wrote:shahmaran wrote:DT. wrote:shahmaran wrote:DT. wrote:shahmaran wrote:Paphitis your fairy tale is indeed intriguing never the less far from the reality of what the people had gone through over here, so its funny you talk about bias and brain washing.
I'm sorry but I will go with real witnesses rather than "neutral Australian" stories about what had happened in a lovely GC ethnocentric fairy land.
You are yet to explain me the reason why one would execute villages of unarmed civilians and bury them into mass graves but all I get is Piratis style whishwash of some delusional hallucinations from another dimension.
Why Paphitis? Why would buses full of GC civilians drive down to Lefke and start attacking everyone while their counterparts start digging huge graves on the outskirts of the village?
Are you typing this page long junk with pictures in order to dilute my questions? Be a man not a politician and give me a straight answer. Why would a community who had the military upper hand use it to murder TC's en-mass if they were just "defending"?
I'm sorry but you can never convince me that the "civilised western democratic RoC (!!! LOL)" would never have shot a trespasser out to bring down your flag, purely on your bias assumptions and love for your illegal Republic. I do admire your patriotic tendencies flying in all the way from Australia, but come on man, what the hell are you on about?
You looking to start a tit for tat on who executed who and go into a sick competition of the most mass murders? Whats your point? As for flagpoles, GC soldiers would wait for the idiot to come down and hand him over to the police. Trust me I know.
No DT.
I just want an answer, that's all, so why don't you let "Mr. I'm neutral and not brainwashed" answer it?
I'm sorry but I would still not risk my self depending on the assumptions of a few people and neither would anyone with a sane mind. Come on DT, are you saying it was a sensible move?
The point, is you can't be sure and it is a very stupid and a very pointless stunt to pull in a very dangerous place with no real outcome. Trespassing military guarded border equals being shot, end of. You cross the wall from East to West Germany YOU WILL BE SHOT as many people have! What have you got to say for them? Are they a barbaric and an uncivilised nation too?
He wanted to be the hero who pulls the flag down before everyone, well unfortunately it didn't quite work out as he hoped.
What would he have achieved by pulling it down anyways and what has he achieved now? Maybe he was after an insult?
Then you need to also comment on the beating the day before in no mans land when tc policemen amongst others beat a man to death live on CNN.
Whats the difference between him and the guy who got shot?
Reh Shah, for a potentially nice chap you let us all down with your nasty stance on these murders.
The mass murders you highlight are damnable and they have been condemned time and time again. Now why won't you join us in condemning the murders of our brothers Issac and Solomon (may they rest in peace) without any qualifications and to also to condemn their murderers?
By the way, Solomos was killed within days following the brutal clubbing to death, the murder, of his Cousin Issac at the hands of tissy "policemen" and your Green Goat thugs.
Come on mate, condemn the murderers and the Occupation that allows this sort of murderous pollocks.
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