Get Real! wrote:shahmaran wrote:So let me get this straight, you were happy to the watch the TC's starve to death in the enclaves after refusing them their right in the government, but you imagined that if Turkey did ever come to help them out, it would actually do what?
That's a question you should ask Turkey (or the TMT)...
"Why did you drive the TC community into ghettos like a herd of cattle, to starve them off?"Or did they sell you a...
"They made me do it!" again?
Excellent point GR!
This point was discussed extensively here:
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.p ... es&start=0If you remember, no one has been able to counter the notion that the TMT herded the TCs, some at gunpoint, into enclaves to more easily facilitate partition or Taksim.
Shah wrote:
About the guy on the flag pole, none of the country examples you provided are actually accurate since none of them had to make a choice in a situation which was the same as Cyprus at that time and place (borders, military zone, war zone, riots and provocation).
But leave that to a side, if you really want to compare their "humanity" you can simply look at the state of the countries where the military of the above examples has reached and how the civilians are treated.
So excuse my language but what the fuck are you talking about?
Have you not heard of Iraq, Afghanistan, the British Empire, Vietnam, the Aborigines and many many more nations who have suffered in the hands of the so called "civilised west" and here you are using them as a good example to how a civilian should be treated? Maybe we should talk about how the riots against the Imperialists were encountered in Africa?
All we get is
inconsistencies and
double standards from the
brainwashed TCs such as Shah!
Apparently, the Turkish Invasion was
defensive, and yet he criticises the US, Australia and Britain over Afghanistan.
You would think that if he was at least
consistent,
logical and
demonstrated some rationale and reason, then surely the Afghan War against the Taliban and Al Qaeda is also a defensive move by those countries involved.
YET AGAIN, ANOTHER TC DOUBLE STANDARD IS EXPOSED! Shah wrote:
So let me get this straight, you were happy to the watch the TC's starve to death in the enclaves after refusing them their right in the government, but you imagined that if Turkey did ever come to help them out, it would actually do what? Come talk to you? Maybe use some super special strategy to evacuate the TC's alone and hopefully not hurt a single GC? Maybe they can force themselves into the island against all the fierce resistance from the GC's which was backed by the Greek's and maybe bring us aid and protection and then start some talks regarding the future of the island? What was it that you expected to happen?! Do you actually know of a rescue operation where time was crucial as the enemy had started to execute the civilians en-mass, but the rescuers had to worry about the well being of the enemy rather than their own and of those to be rescued? How many Turkish soldiers died in order to actually get to us?
Here is a snippet from the above thread, that no TC has adequately been able to counter:
Here is the evidence that really does clear the air about Turkish propaganda with regards to the enclaves:In addition to the hostile environment that was created by combatants on both sides, there was a second factor that led to the polarization of both communities: with a view toward partition, the Turks withdrew from predominantly Greek areas and evicted Greeks from areas where Turks were in the majority.
Turkish extremists forced several thousand Turkish peasants to abandon their farms and animals and move into an overcrowded Turkish enclave in Nicosia.
And any TC that resisted or refused to abandon their homes and move into enclaves were either murdered or went missing:
Turkish Cypriots who favoured compromise or a close relationship between the two ethnic communities were targets of TMT violence.
In Limassol, a Turkish Cypriot owner of a restaurant popular with Greeks was threatened and later murdered by the TMT.
Two progressive-thinking, London-educated Turkish barristers who spoke against partition were killed outright by these same Turkish gangs.
The sole aim of the enclaves was so that the TMT extremists were more easily able to gather all TCs and mobilise them towards partition. This could not be achieved if the TCs remained scattered all over Cyprus.
"Thus the aim of partition, camouflaged by Turkish propaganda as `federation,' was relentlessly pursued regardless of loss of human life and the human misery created.
On 23 Dec 63, Turkish Gangs force Armenians to abandon their homes, shops, schools and clubs at gunpoint, to make more room for TCs and create another enclave within the Armenian quarter of Nicosia.
On December 23, 1963, Turkish gangs also moved through the Armenian quarter of Nicosia and forced the inhabitants at gunpoint to leave their houses, shops, church, school and clubs to make room for more Turks.
http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.htmlTherefore, we can conclude that the TC claims that enclaves were set up for protection against the Greeks is false. The primary objective for the TMT was
TAKSIM! 
Greek Cypriots attacked Kokkina for security and defensive purposes, as the TMT, the TCs and Turkey were smuggling weapons through the Kokkina Beachhead:
The First Cyprus Crisis
In the night from 20 to 21 December 1963, a car carrying weapons for Turkish Cypriots in the Omorfita, a district of Nicosia – where armed resistance was organized – was halted on a police roadblock. After a few minutes a large crowd, mainly consisting of Turkish Cypriots, assembled nearby and the situation heated up, resulting in exchange of fire in which one policeman and two Turks were killed. This mini-uprising of Turkish Cypriots ended by Christmas of the same year, but there more skirmishes followed, as since that time Turkey began systematically organising and arming students and men younger than 30 into small units, equipped with personal weapons, bazookas and mortars. Several loads of food and ammunition were shipped from Turkey to Cyprus during the following winter, mainly by small boats and by night, which were landing in the Kokkina area.
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_454.shtmlSamarkeolog Wrote:
When they attacked, Turkey bombed them back. So, the Greek Cypriots might have needed the Greeks to protect them from the Turks, but only because the Greek Cypriots attacked the Turkish Cypriots. If the Greek Cypriots hadn't attacked the Turkish Cypriots, the Turks wouldn't have attacked the Greek Cypriots.
If the TCs were not smuggling weapons from Turkey in order to further their campaign for
TAKSIM, then the GCs would not have attacked.
The GCs were merely defending their island as it was evident that Kokkina was a
major national threat to Cypriot Sovereignty, due to TMT weapon smuggling:
GR Wrote:
Had you done your homework you would’ve known that the Kokkina enclave was in fact a TMT forces enclave, which had a sea port that regularly received arms and other supplies from Turkish boats that fuelled the TC armed uprisings all over the island, and ultimately making it vital for Turkey’s goal of partition on Cyprus by providing her with a safe beachhead for a military ground invasion.
The fact that the TAF conducted the first aerial bombings on Cyprus as a result of the Kokkina threat by opposing forces is further concrete evidence of the importance of Kokkina for Turkey because had Kokkina fallen the entire Turkish ulterior motive for Cyprus would’ve fallen to pieces.
Therefore, the RoC government was correct in its evaluation that the Kokkina point was a major national threat and had to go! After all, the major population of Cyprus was an 82% overwhelming majority of Greek Cypriots that the Kokkina point was directly threatening.
So in order to defend the Kokkina beachhead, the TAF bombs Cyprus using these aircraft:
THK F-100 Super Sabres were very active over Cyprus in 1964. This artwork, reconstructed from several photographs showing different Turkish "Huns" in the 1960s, depicts one of F-100D in service with the THK at the time. The THK received also a sizeable batch of F-100Cs, but only from 1970 onwards. (Artwork by Tom Cooper) http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_454.shtmlThey had dropped over 750lbs (340kg) of bombs and napalm:
Turkish jets had dropped 750lbs (340 kg) of bombs and napalm on their strongholds in north-west Cyprus.
"The whole area is on fire," said a spokesman for the Cypriot government.
"We cannot estimate casualties but there must be hundreds. Whole villages have been wiped out."
They also accused the Turkish government of landing troops on the north-west coast of the island.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date ... 037898.stmTherefore, it still stands to reason that the main objective of the TMT, was TAKSIM. Enclaves, were established to mainly assist the TMT with their mission. They armed themselves to the teeth, by smuggling arms from Turkey to Kokkina, so that they can continue with their terror campaign for TAKSIM.Shah wrote:
There is NO EXCUSE to execute villages full of unarmed civilians and then bury them into mass graves, what is this defence? Attacks? A statement maybe? Or maybe one last blow before defeat? What was it? Can you even explain it?
Totally agree. Just like there was no excuse for Turkey to invade and kill 10,000 mostly civilian GCs, as not even one TC was hurt by the Coup.
And just like there was no excuse to murder an unarmed Solomos climbing your flap pole. Were you defending your military advantage against one civilian armed with a cigarette were you?
This was a
COWARDLY act!
Shah wrote:
Excuse me but I live in Cyprus and I would NEVER EVER dare to pull a stunt as that guy on the pole did because I am absolutely certain about what the outcome would be. He made his choice and he knew very well what he was up against and it was no surprise.
As much as I do accept that it was wrong and sick and inhumane, I can also see that the guy was an absolute idiot for doing something like that. What is he a hero now? Has his death helped his cause in any way? No, all he did was make his loved ones suffer and become another propaganda tool for his fascist state. Good work Solomon.
The RoC would never kill an unarmed civilian for climbing a flag pole. That is just not the way things are done in democratic western countries.
So what if an unarmed civilian manages to burn our flag. It is only a piece of cloth, and it hardly justifies the murder of an unarmed civilian.
Shah wrote:
I'm sick and tired of these bias views to be honest, I am happy to accept the wrong doings of all sides but this shit about the GC's being ever so innocent and always the victim and the crocodile tears, sometimes I am so glad the TRNC exists.
You have done a fine job showing us your biased views by demonstrating inconsistencies within your own thoughts, a lack of rationale and logic. Well Done!
your argument was riddled with massive hypocrisy.
But nevertheless, I DO accept the wrong doings of my side. I do regret the loss of all TC victims no matter what! If I could bring them all back, I would.
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Anyway, I will be off line until early August. I wish you all well!
