Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

... don't try and play down the Greek junta's role in the debacle because it is they who ordered the coup ...

No one is playing down the junta's role.

Yes they are.

No they are not.

Yes they are.

No they are not.

These unsubstantiated conspiracy theories are often used to downplay or even deny Greece's responsibilities in triggering the tragic events of 1974;

Because there were audacious reasons behind the coup, it does not mean these are just conspiracy theories.

I am waiting for proof.

Read Kissinger's memoirs (or see that film ).

because some find it difficult to condemn Greek nationalism and the disastrous effect it has had on Cyprus.

There you go again! -- confusing the mindless and unsupported acts of the junta with collective Greek Nationalism.

What are you on about?

You blaming the Greeks as a Nation, for the junta's antics (no euphemism intended!).

[The Cypriot]

No one is playing down the junta's role.

Yes. No.

This is stupid. Oracle, if we're blaming it all on the CIA and Kissinger we're playing down the junta's role and Greece's responsibility. If it was the CIA who orchestrated it, why did they make such a pig's ear of the assassination? They managed JFK!

Read Kissinger's memoirs (or see that film ).

We're waiting for Paphitis to find us the relevant quote. Have you seen it? What does it say? Which film?

You blaming the Greeks as a Nation, for the junta's antics (no euphemism intended!).

No more than I would blame the German nation for the antics of Hitler and the Nazis. It is you who is looking to divert the blame and nail it all on the Americans. Is it because you are half Greek, and you feel a sense of guilt? Don't worry Oracle. I don't hold you responsible for what happened to Cyprus in 1974. Just as I don't hold all Turks responsible for what their military is doing to Cyprus to this day.

[Viewpoint]

The world sees you as criminals who illegally occupy 1/3rd of Republic Cyprus. And we don't need you to agree on anything. We will fuck you for as long as it takes and then liberate our island from the foreign invaders.

Feels good keep doing it..we will be around forever as our numbers increase 500.000 now 1.000.000 in 20 years time all this fucking and in 30 years time we will be fucking you....

so why do you need gaurantees?

The first to act as a deterrant so that GCs do not use their majority advantage negatively to the detrement of TCs and secondly to ensure the GCs do not start a civil war as we experienced before. If they have no intention to go in this direction then why the hell do they object they have nothing to fear as long as they behave obviously they have other hidden agendas that makes guarantees all that more important for us.

what numerical advantage? Above you quote that you are 500,000 now and soon will be 2,000,000.

So I'll ask again, why do you need gaurantees?

Guarantees if we are to unite in the near future and no guarantees when you ask for agreed partition due to the population explosion in the northç

[The Cypriot]

The aim of the US inspired Coup was to rid Cyprus of the "Red Priest", whom they perceived to be getting a little too friendly with the Soviet Union and other non aligned countries.

There was absolutely no desire for ENOSIS from the Coupist, and this is supported by the fact that when President Makarios was removed from power, they appointed another "President" known as Nicos Sampson. They chose to not dissolve the RoC.

This is what Nicos Sampson says about the US's involvement and accusations of him being a CIA agent:



"Nicos Sampson believes in Greece and nothing else... These rumours are malevolent, disgraceful, I reject them with disgust. Because my past has been one long struggle for Greece... I was never a foreign agent. Just a good Greek true to the national ideals."

[Alpeis]

I really wonder if Turkey didn't intervened what would EU call it, Greek invasion or Greek intervention...

If Turkey hadn't "intervened" [sic], the Cypriots would have gotten rid of the coupists ... and become stronger in the process.

Who has started the terror in the GC population years before the coup? Greece? or Turkey and America?

Were they able to get rid of the terror? What makes you think that they were able manage the coup while not being able to manage a few hundred terrorists?

[DT.]

The aim of the US inspired Coup was to rid Cyprus of the "Red Priest", whom they perceived to be getting a little too friendly with the Soviet Union and other non aligned countries.

There was absolutely no desire for ENOSIS from the Coupist, and this is supported by the fact that when President Makarios was removed from power, they appointed another "President" known as Nicos Sampson. They chose to not dissolve the RoC.

This is what Nicos Sampson says about the US's involvement and accusations of him being a CIA agent:



"Nicos Sampson believes in Greece and nothing else... These rumours are malevolent, disgraceful, I reject them with disgust. Because my past has been one long struggle for Greece... I was never a foreign agent. Just a good Greek true to the national ideals."

Sorry, you using Nicos Sampson as your evidence that the double enosis agreement between the US, Turkey and the junta was a figment of our imagination?

In any case why would Sampson be told about the junta's plans and their reasons. He wasn't even their first choice as President but 3rd choice. CLerides as you know refused the position.

[Paphitis]

Henry Kissinger was in cohorts with the Greek Junta and instigated the whole thing so as to avoid the most feared prospect of Soviet influence within the East Mediterranean.

I no longer believe this is true. The US were paying Cyprus to use listening facilities on the island. Kissinger admired Makarios, his shrewdness, his statesmanship. He thought Makarios brought stability to the East Med. He thought Makarios held AKEL (communists) in check. Makarios even gave permission to use Britain's sovereign bases for which America was grateful (and may even have paid for).

There is an admission to this in his memoirs, so what more proof do you want.

Show me the proof and I will accept it.

I shall hunt for the actual extract and post it to you, but this will take some time.

Please do.

The US never did require the permission to interfere within other countries. It has a long history of undermining and influencing many countries,.

This is true and there is evidence that the US has orchestrated the overthrow of leaders they disliked in Latin America eg. in Chile. But there is no evidence to hand to susbtantiate your claim that the coup against Makarios was orchestrated by America.

Furthermore, The Greek Junta did not have the support of the Greek Public at large. So I ask you, were the Greeks non nationalistic for opposing the Junta?

Of course the Greeks did oppose the junta. Any freedom-loving people would oppose military rule. I was talking about Greek nationalism in Cyprus, through EOKA B.

I am not going to quote the The Kissinger Memoirs because it is rather extensive and I don't have the time.

But, please read the following extracts and draw your own conclusion:

Cyprus Crisis Pages 31-32, 40, 57, 166, 192-235, 366, 474, 479, 590, 610, 660, 689, 1020, 1064.

Anti Makarios Coup Pages 199, 204, 207-211.

Cold War Pages 194-195, 196.

Communists Pages 198-199, 205.

Czech Arms Issue Pages 202-203.

Enosis Pages 198, 207-208, 215-216.

First Turkish Military Intervention Pages 215-224.

NATO jeopardized by, Pages 194, 196, 201, 202-206, 208, 211, 212, 213.

Second Turkish Military Intervention Pages 224-233.

AND MUCH MORE!

The general gist is that both the US and UK gave the Green Light for Turkey's invasion after the coup that the US directly supported. This is after giving the Greek Junta "assurances" that Turkey will not intervene. It was agreed by both the US and UK that the Turkish Army was to take 1/3 of Cyprus and that this should be achieved within 48 hours. On the 23 Jul 1974, Turkey's Intervention proved mostly unsuccessful and the British had instructed Turkey to stop in its current position and end hostilities. The British protested to Washington and suggested that the "intervention" stop immediately. This was over ruled by Kissinger himself, who directly gave the green light for the Second Turkish Intervention in order to secure 1/3 f Cyprus as was agreed beforehand. The British protested sternly but to no avail.

Furthermore, The Australian and Canadian UNFICYP contingents were informed of Turkey's Intervention well before they landed on 20 Jul 74. They were given clear instructions to withdraw from their positions and into the safety of the British SBAs in Dhekelia and Akrotiri. The Australians and Canadians were the only UN personnel informed by the British because the Irish, Swedish, and Austrians were not trusted.

The former South Australian Police Commissioner was one of those Aussies that was ordered to retreat, and he charismatically suggested that the retreat was not due to the coup, as their safety was not in question because of that, but due to the impending invasion.

The Coup was just a means to bring about this sorry state of affairs, and a lot of research is being done, as we speak, as to Australia's and Canada's involvement by a leading Cypriot Academic.

[Paphitis]

The aim of the US inspired Coup was to rid Cyprus of the "Red Priest", whom they perceived to be getting a little too friendly with the Soviet Union and other non aligned countries.

There was absolutely no desire for ENOSIS from the Coupist, and this is supported by the fact that when President Makarios was removed from power, they appointed another "President" known as Nicos Sampson. They chose to not dissolve the RoC.

This is what Nicos Sampson says about the US's involvement and accusations of him being a CIA agent:



"Nicos Sampson believes in Greece and nothing else... These rumours are malevolent, disgraceful, I reject them with disgust. Because my past has been one long struggle for Greece... I was never a foreign agent. Just a good Greek true to the national ideals."

Nicos Sampson was just a pleb and had no idea of what was really going on behind the scenes. Someone who does know exactly what was going on and how the Greeks were fooled, now rots in Korydallos Prison.

[Paphitis]

There was no Greek nationalism at the time. If anything, Greece was gripped by massive anti communism and America perceived Makarios to be a threat. They then instigated the coup to get rid of Makarios.

These are not conspiracy theories, but come from the horses mouth - Henry Kissinger himself.

Please read his memoirs.

Paphiti, the junta was a right-wing dictatorship. Greek nationalism was rabid in Cyprus at the time. In the 1970s Makarios was not considered a threat by America. Please can you quote me the passages from Kissinger's memoirs where he admits to orchestrating the coup.

There you go associating Greek Nationalism with extreme right wing politics.

Those against the Junta were also nationalists, because their love for Greece gave them the desire and conviction to resist.

Mikis Theodorakis was also a nationalist.

I'm a Cypriot Nationalist, because my love for Cyprus brings forth these emotions. I'm sure you are a nationalist as well.

[The Cypriot]

I am not going to quote the The Kissinger Memoirs because it is rather extensive and I don't have the time.

But, please read the following extracts and draw your own conclusion:

Cyprus Crisis Pages 31-32, 40, 57, 166, 192-235, 366, 474, 479, 590, 610, 660, 689, 1020, 1064.

Anti Makarios Coup Pages 199, 204, 207-211.

Cold War Pages 194-195, 196.

Communists Pages 198-199, 205.

Czech Arms Issue Pages 202-203.

Enosis Pages 198, 207-208, 215-216.

First Turkish Military Intervention Pages 215-224.

NATO jeopardized by, Pages 194, 196, 201, 202-206, 208, 211, 212, 213.

Second Turkish Military Intervention Pages 224-233.

AND MUCH MORE!

The general gist is that both the US and UK gave the Green Light for Turkey's invasion after the coup that the US directly supported. This is after giving the Greek Junta "assurances" that Turkey will not intervene. It was agreed by both the US and UK that the Turkish Army was to take 1/3 of Cyprus and that this should be achieved within 48 hours. On the 23 Jul 1974, Turkey's Intervention proved mostly unsuccessful and the British had instructed Turkey to stop in its current position and end hostilities. The British protested to Washington and suggested that the "intervention" stop immediately. This was over ruled by Kissinger himself, who directly gave the green light for the Second Turkish Intervention in order to secure 1/3 f Cyprus as was agreed beforehand. The British protested sternly but to no avail.

Furthermore, The Australian and Canadian UNFICYP contingents were informed of Turkey's Intervention well before they landed on 20 Jul 74. They were given clear instructions to withdraw from their positions and into the safety of the British SBAs in Dhekelia and Akrotiri. The Australians and Canadians were the only UN personnel informed by the British because the Irish, Swedish, and Austrians were not trusted.

The former South Australian Police Commissioner was one of those Aussies that was ordered to retreat, and he charismatically suggested that the retreat was not due to the coup, as their safety was not in question because of that, but due to the impending invasion.

The Coup was just a means to bring about this sorry state of affairs, and a lot of research is being done, as we speak, as to Australia's and Canada's involvement by a leading Cypriot Academic.

I don't have the book.

All I'm after is a quote/passage acknowledging that Kissinger orchestrated the coup. The US had (and has) geo-strategic interests in the eastern med. When the genie was out of the bottle after the coup it had to manage the ensuing crisis as best it could (from its perspective) and we all know what that meant for Cyprus. I've already given you a Kissinger quote denying it was his doing.