Cyprus-Forum.com

[MicAtCyp]

Someone has forgotten to lock the front gate of the luny house ...

No doubt!

The zoo is still open though for the monkies and their bananas.

[Kifeas]

Age alone is not a criterion for me, as I wouldn't mind an older President with a young mind. Unfortunately this is not the case here as Papadopoulos' mind, thoughts and way of doing things are firmly glued to the 1960's era.

Which thoughts and ways you have known or experienced and which are firmly glued to the 1960’s era? Can you be specific? Because I also read these nonsense and slogans every day in “Alithia” and Cyprus mail” and none of them does much of a sense to me.

How is one supposed to evaluate Papadopoulos when he accuses those who may disagree with him as "traitors" or "paid agents" without providing any evidence for it?

Can you tell us which one specifically he accused of being a traitor? He only said so about those who had received funds from outside in order to carry out part of the “YES” campaign. Did he say that you, Othellos, because you voted “Yes” you are a traitor? Did you receive money from outside, in order to promote the “Yes”? Where is the problem on this issue? Did he force anyone not to promote or carry out his campaign in favour of “Yes”?

What you say about Papadopoulos wanting to be the guy who solved the problem would make complete sense if he was a charismatic leader with a vision which again is not the case.

Well, only someone with guts, high moral and vision could have stood up against so many foreign pressure and threats during the pre-referendum period, and advice the people on what he believed was right. If you have forgotten it, during those days only the threat for an A-bomb was not utilised in order to crush the moral of the people. All the rest of means and threats have more or less being employed in order to get a “Yes.” Yet, Mr Anastasiades had the audacity to report the government to the E.U. commission for using “undemocratic” means in order to secure the “No.”

I see your point, mikkie but at the same time let us not forget that Papadopoulos never fought hard for a better plan in the 12 whole months that he had available to do so. Had he done that then he could have at least tried to secure certain safeguards for what is otherwise a legitimate concern (i.e Turkey's behaviour throughout the implementation of any solution). Besides, we all knew (and know) that Turkey's EU journey will be very long and may never reach its destination.

Which 12 months are you talking about? Before or after the referendum?

Again, while the above concerns are legitimate, I do not see how Papadopoulos is addressing them. Does he have a policy or a strategy here to cope with all these? In all honesty, I don't think so.

In which way do you think Mr. Klerides or Mr. Anastasiades would have addressed them and what in particular did Mr. Klerides do during his term, towards this direction? These concerns were there all along, even before the A-plan made its first appearance, which was during Klerides presidency. Papadopoullos made specific suggestions for more guarantees by the UN for the implementation of the plan and also for the territories agreed to be returned, to become formally part of the GCCS from day one of the agreement and to be administered by the UN. Turkey accepted none of his proposals and consequently none of them was adequately address by the UN.

Cyprus, Kifeas, in not the center of the Universe. And we Cypriots are not the "chosen" people on the planet.

Is it? I just had the opposite opinion! Thanks for the inculcation any way! I also hear this admonishing slogans quite often from Themistokleous, Vasiliou, Papapetrou and Anastasiades.

This means that if we want a new UN initiative, more negotiations, a new plan etc, then we must also lift a finger. Actually we need to do a lot more than just lift a finger, and imho Papadopoulos does not seem to realize that.

Don’t you realise that under the current circumstances and climate - as it emerged after the rejection of the plan, and with the known attitude of the US -that used to do nothing else than repeating to us that it only supports a solution on the A-plan with almost none or very few and minor changes, that to begin a fervent campaign for a resumption of negotiations -in an almost pleading manner, would have only ended up getting ourselves back to the same plan that we have already rejected? Don’t you just see this very simple logic?

Shouldn't the people of any country including Cyprus have some expectations from their leaders, Kifeas? I do not know about you but giving away to the Turks a partitioned Cyprus for free (because this is what Papadopoulos is doing), is not among my expectations.

You said before that we are not the centre of the Universe. That means that the capacity and power of any Cypriot president is not unlimited and that there is a certain maximum length that we can reach, especially when the international circumstances and climate are not the most favourable. What we need is some patience. I know you are frustrated because as a person originating from an area, which was meant to be returned to the GC community, you feel like this opportunity has been denied to you unreasonably and perhaps due to Papadopoullos handlings. However, there is also an equally large number of GC refugees whose properties and return rights would have been usurped for ever and without a possibility for a way back or even a provision for any decent compensation, either by the plan itself or by the GC community alone.

But Clerides did not become President because of the coup. Being the President of the Cypriot Parliament, he became acting President according to the provisions of the constitution when Sampson "stepped down". If anything, Clerides was trying to salvage what was left from the chaos that Turkey’s invasion caused and President Makarios acknowledged this on his return in December 1974. Back to July 1974, Lyssarides was hiding in some foreign Embassy, while Kyprianou escaped with his family to Greece (at least this is what I was told). So again, can anyone please enlighten me about the whereabouts of Mr. Tassos Papadopoulos in the summer of 1974?

Klerides was in the list of candidates to replace Makarios once the coup would have taken place. He refused the offer when he found out that Makarios was still alive and in Pafos. Then the same offer was made to Sampson who accepted it. I know how Klerides became the president later. What is so important about Papadopoullos whereabouts-in summer 1974?

And? Does that make me also another "traitor"?

Who said so! I just made a hind for gabaston. It is very amusing to watch how some TCs in the forum rush quickly to applauded and cheer every GC that says something against Papadopoullos.

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas are you also stuck in the 1960 mentality and very property minded. You find it difficult handling the recent posts of Othellos, hes been very clear and logical in his way of thinking which in reverse to yours is very refreshing, as said before only wish there were thousands more like him, we may then move towards a solution.

It is very amusing to watch how some TCs in the forum rush quickly to applauded and cheer every GC that says something against Papadopoullos.

was amusing for us when you always slated Denktas, now you have a GC version and we do not trust him at all, so dont be so suprised, when we support GCs who are brave enough to speak the truth, knowing the will be critized and branded a traitor.

[Kifeas]

Kifeas are you also stuck in the 1960 mentality and very property minded.

Oh yeah? Because I didn’t agree to give you all my properties for free, like it was prescribed in the A-plan, I am very property minded! And you! Because you happily agreed to a plan that would have given you almost all the GC properties for free (in fact almost twice as your fare share,) you are not property minded. It was our “kismet,” you said!

You find it difficult handling the recent posts of Othellos, hes been very clear and logical in his way of thinking which in reverse to yours is very refreshing, as said before only wish there were thousands more like him, we may then move towards a solution.

Yeah! When someone is telling you all the things you like to listen, of course you will find his postings clear and logical!

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas you are the one always going on about property not me I to have valuable land in the south, why is that I dont go about them all the time and wanting to return to claim my ancestral homes, my priorities are peace safety first and no amount of land or money will come before this issue. Im willing to accept compensation, why cant you??

Yeah! When someone is telling you all the things you like to listen, of course you will find his postings clear and logical!

and when you disagree you brand the person biased and anti GCs eg Bananiot.

[gabaston]

m2

i totally agree with your post - and yes i agree, there is a wait n see game going on, but i still dont see much change coming from any leader.


i wouldnt accuse paps of being non charismatic or even that this is a sign of a bad leader. many leaders are non charismatic during office, they then go on to reveal oodles of it later, when the pressures of office has been lifted.

[Kifeas]

m2

i totally agree with your post - and yes i agree, there is a wait n see game going on, but i still dont see much change coming from any leader.


i wouldnt accuse paps of being non charismatic or even that this is a sign of a bad leader. many leaders are non charismatic during office, they then go on to reveal oodles of it later, when the pressures of office has been lifted.

Are you talking to me gabaston?

[gabaston]

kifeas

the day i totally agree with your posts, or you with mine then probably the sun will fall from the sky. the moon shall orbit the earth nine times and you will also win the lottery in every nation on earth, and you will stop whinging about your lost property.

i lost too you know, as have many others

[Kifeas]

kifeas

the day i totally agree with your posts, or you with mine then probably the sun will fall from the sky. the moon shall orbit the earth nine times and you will also win the lottery in every nation on earth, and you will stop whinging about your lost property.

i lost too you know, as have many others

But why?

[gabaston]

good one..............


im still cracking up