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[-mikkie2-]

In what way is Papadopoulos an obstacle to a solution?

We simply rejected this particular solution plan, not any solution plan.

Would you agree that Turkey at this moment in time actually has very little incentive to reach a solution? Would you also agree that Turkay can easily hide behind the 'yes' of the TC's?

In light of this don't you reasonably accept and agree that it is very difficult for the Greek Cypriots to do anything other than accept the Annan plan as is?

Also, would you not agree that the opinion of the Greek Cypriots regarding the plan should be respected? If that is the case, is it not reasonable to suggest that Turkey should also be pressured to accept that she has to make concessions in order for the Greek Cypriots to say 'yes' to a future plan?

[Othellos]

Cannedmoose

But will TPap last 8 more years, he's in his late 70s as is... does Cyprus really need another octagenarian President? Plus, if he should be reelected, do you not think that an elderly man may start to reassess his legacy?

Age alone is not a criterion for me, as I wouldn't mind an older President with a young mind. Unfortunately this is not the case here as Papadopoulos' mind, thoughts and way of doing things are firmly glued to the 1960's era.

You say that his ambition was always to be President... would a greater ambition not be to be the guy who solved the problem? Maybe I'm attributing too much trust to him, as you said he's proved virtually nothing in the last two years beyond rejectionism.

It is not just the last 2 years. Papadopoulos has a life long presence in local politics and this allows anyone to make an assessment of his ethos, his skills and abilities etc. What is one supposed to think of a politician who in the mid 1980's went as far as publishing in his own newspaper the medical prescriptions of his opponents? How is one supposed to evaluate Papadopoulos when he accuses those who may disagree with him as "traitors" or "paid agents" without providing any evidence for it? What you say about Papadopoulos wanting to be the guy who solved the problem would make complete sense if he was a charismatic leader with a vision which again is not the case.

But you have to ask yourself, who will be standing against him in 2008? Will Anastasiades survive as DHSY leader for that long? I can't see AKEL putting one of their heads on the chopping block and are there any good independents out there?

These are all good questions but I am afraid that I do not have a satisfactory answer for you.

I urge people to think about what would be now if we said yes to the Annan plan and to put it in the context of the current anti-expansion and anti-Turkish sentiment that seems to be sweeping Europe.

I see your point, mikkie but at the same time let us not forget that Papadopoulos never fought hard for a better plan in the 12 whole months that he had available to do so. Had he done that then he could have at least tried to secure certain safeguards for what is otherwise a legitimate concern (i.e Turkey's behaviour throughout the implementation of any solution). Besides, we all knew (and know) that Turkey's EU journey will be very long and may never reach its destination.

The implementation of the plan would have ground to a halt. Turkey would be using the future implementation of the plan as a bargaining chip for further concessions from the EU. In the process we would be made stateless in a non-functioning United Cyprus Republic and we would have signed away our rights to our lands in the north. In the meantime, the international community would be urging Turkey to comply with empty threats and rhetoric and we would be back to square one.

Again, while the above concerns are legitimate, I do not see how Papadopoulos is addressing them. Does he have a policy or a strategy here to cope with all these? In all honesty, I don't think so.

Who will decide his next president are the people and no one else! Was the other side truly ready for negotiations and the UN willing for a new initiative, so that you can judge whether Papadopoullos was serious or not?

Cyprus, Kifeas, in not the center of the Universe. And we Cypriots are not the "chosen" people on the planet. This means that if we want a new UN initiative, more negotiations, a new plan etc, then we must also lift a finger. Actually we need to do a lot more than just lift a finger, and imho Papadopoulos does not seem to realize that.

And who has offered anything more, based on your highly placed and strict criteria?

Shouldn't the people of any country including Cyprus have some expectations from their leaders, Kifeas? I do not know about you but giving away to the Turks a partitioned Cyprus for free (because this is what Papadopoulos is doing), is not among my expectations.

At least he was not in the Junta list of the perspective puppet presidents for the coupist government, like it was the case with Klerides.

But Clerides did not become President because of the coup. Being the President of the Cypriot Parliament, he became acting President according to the provisions of the constitution when Sampson "stepped down". If anything, Clerides was trying to salvage what was left from the chaos that Turkey’s invasion caused and President Makarios acknowledged this on his return in December 1974. Back to July 1974, Lyssarides was hiding in some foreign Embassy, while Kyprianou escaped with his family to Greece (at least this is what I was told). So again, can anyone please enlighten me about the whereabouts of Mr. Tassos Papadopoulos in the summer of 1974?

For me is sufficient the fact that Mr Gabaston agrees with you Othellos!

And? Does that make me also another "traitor"?

You are pathetic Bananiot! Very Pathetic!

And do you really need to resort to verbal abuses like the above?

Who said that the man's only concern is to remain the president for a second term? Othellos?

Yes. Just my 2c.

O.

[gabaston]

m2

i doubt there will be another annan during paps present term. A yes will be bad for him a no even worse. Tc is now in a possition to ride international sympathy gained from their yes vote so any delay also suits them. In the meantime tc will develop even more gc owned land untill the next annan- which will be the last and where tc will not be able to vote no.

Time now favours tc.

stalemate also favours tc.

[Othellos]

m2

i doubt there will be another annan during paps present term. A yes will be bad for him a no even worse. Tc is now in a possition to ride international sympathy gained from their yes vote so any delay also suits them. In the meantime tc will develop even more gc owned land untill the next annan- which will be the last and where tc will not be able to vote no.

Time now favours tc.

stalemate also favours tc.

I wouldn't bet on this, gabaston. In the long run we will all end up being losers.

O.

[gabaston]

Othellos i've waited long enough for a solution.

if i want to live in cyprus then i've got to gamble, and imo my hunch is as good as the next.

thankx.

i would like to commend your free thinking, and nor am i a traitor for doing so.

[-mikkie2-]

O.

Whilst I do have sympathy with much of what you say, we don't really know what is going on behind the scenes.

In my view Papadopoulos is waiting for certain things to happen before October 3rd. You only have to see how Turkey is doing what she can to avoid signing the customs protocol. A game is being played here.

We have to wait and see when Turkey does sign the protocol. In my opinion things will start happening after that.

As for Papadopoulos not being particularly charismatic, well what do you expect from a lawyer? Unfortunately for us Cypriots, charismatic leaders tended to be rather nationalistic! I think charisma gets you only so far. What we need is action. I couldnt give a monkeys if our leaders are boring, as long as they get the job done.

[Viewpoint]

Othellos I agree totally with your last posts they make sense and I applaud the fact that you can see what is actually unfolding .

[metecyp]

Othellos I agree totally with your last posts they make sense and I applaud the fact that you can see what is actually unfolding .

I also agree with Othellos. I was kind of surprised as well since we tend to disagree usually.

[brother]

Othellos you have spoken like a man who's finger is clearly on the reality button and agree with everything you have said, well done mate you spoke like a true cypriot who is not influenced by the media and tassos, i wish there was thousands more like you from both sides.

Your views might not be popular with many GC but my views are not always popular with TC and you may be called a traitor but the real traitors are those cypriots that support the nationalist views and not whats good for cyprus

[Viewpoint]

metecyp

I also agree with Othellos. I was kind of surprised as well since we tend to disagree usually.

sounded pretty serious to me,