Cyprus-Forum.com

[non-cypriot]

Hi to all this is my first post.
After listening to my Turkish cypriot girlfriend's stories on Cyprus i decided to do some research to see what's the Cyprus problem all about. I have always been aware that some serious political/cultural problems riddled the isle but was ignorant to the full scale of the matter till i started dating my Tc girlfriend 3 years ago. I'v done weeks of reading reports,historical facts and documents. i have spoken to people from both communities young and old, and my final conclusion is that Turks should go, take their settlers and leave cypriots both Turkish and Greek to try and heal the wounds from the past and together build a strong country on this awesome resourceful isle. But then again I'm just an outsider and things are always a lot more sensitive through the eyes of those involved, however it seems pretty clear to me that Cyprus should be for the Cypriots regardless who the ancestors where. Cypriot identity should prevail over Greek and Turkish. I know its a cliché easily elaborated by people alien to the country and things are a lot more complex, but i have found that there is a solid cultural common ground shared by GC's and TC's and maybe once the invading forces were out of the way, all Cypriots could try to put the past behind and build towards the future. It would never be an easy path but surely it has to be worthwhile.

[Kuruovali]

Hi to all this is my first post.
After listening to my Turkish cypriot girlfriend's stories on Cyprus i decided to do some research to see what's the Cyprus problem all about. I have always been aware that some serious political/cultural problems riddled the isle but was ignorant to the full scale of the matter till i started dating my Tc girlfriend 3 years ago. I'v done weeks of reading reports,historical facts and documents. i have spoken to people from both communities young and old, and my final conclusion is that Turks should go, take their settlers and leave cypriots both Turkish and Greek to try and heal the wounds from the past and together build a strong country on this awesome resourceful isle. But then again I'm just an outsider and things are always a lot more sensitive through the eyes of those involved, however it seems pretty clear to me that Cyprus should be for the Cypriots regardless who the ancestors where. Cypriot identity should prevail over Greek and Turkish. I know its a cliché easily elaborated by people alien to the country and things are a lot more complex, but i have found that there is a solid cultural common ground shared by GC's and TC's and maybe once the invading forces were out of the way, all Cypriots could try to put the past behind and build towards the future. It would never be an easy path but surely it has to be worthwhile.

Dear non cypriot

I don't know where or how you've have been doing your 'research' but I can tell you now that it is seriously flawed. As a Turkish Cypriot born in Cyprus and who has experienced from first hand life in Cyprus pre 74 from a Turkish Cypriot's point of view that it is not as simple as you suggest.

For a start we have two seperate languages and religions and very little cultural commonality (unlike the Bosnian Muslims and Serbs which have a lot more in common and look what happened to them!). I don't know any TC that has married a GC and of those that i've heard about the relationships have not survived and this is mainly due to the prejudice/hate and stigmatism that currently exists on both sides (which has hardened over the past 50 years). As it currently stands there is no trust and goodwill on either side and without this we are not going to get anywhere.

I still remember pre 74 the GC army (national guard/malitia whatever you call them) stationed on a hill top just outside our village. Everyone was in a state of fear when venturing outside the village (Kuruova/Korovia). You would constantly be stopped searched and if you're carring any building materials you would be forced to empty and reload, this was simply aimed not only at creating a climate of fear but played a part in many TC's simply selling up and leaving the island (my great aunt of which was one and one of the reasons why our numbers dwindled since the late 19th to early/mid 20th century).

Our survival and existence is only due to the intervention of the Turkish army (although I accept that the Turks may of had other motives as well but having said that if it's in Britain's interest to have two significant bases in Cyprus then it is a million more times in Turkey's interest to have a presence on the island.

Yes, I agree the Turkish army should reduce their numbers and as soon as the TC's have proper and adequate security guarantess then they should eventually go together with the British army (with Turkish guarantee still in place). Turkish settlers who are recent arrivals (who are mainly economic workers) should also go.

I belive the so called 'Cyprus problem' is more complicated then your simply analysis suggests.

K

[DT.]

Hi to all this is my first post.
After listening to my Turkish cypriot girlfriend's stories on Cyprus i decided to do some research to see what's the Cyprus problem all about. I have always been aware that some serious political/cultural problems riddled the isle but was ignorant to the full scale of the matter till i started dating my Tc girlfriend 3 years ago. I'v done weeks of reading reports,historical facts and documents. i have spoken to people from both communities young and old, and my final conclusion is that Turks should go, take their settlers and leave cypriots both Turkish and Greek to try and heal the wounds from the past and together build a strong country on this awesome resourceful isle. But then again I'm just an outsider and things are always a lot more sensitive through the eyes of those involved, however it seems pretty clear to me that Cyprus should be for the Cypriots regardless who the ancestors where. Cypriot identity should prevail over Greek and Turkish. I know its a cliché easily elaborated by people alien to the country and things are a lot more complex, but i have found that there is a solid cultural common ground shared by GC's and TC's and maybe once the invading forces were out of the way, all Cypriots could try to put the past behind and build towards the future. It would never be an easy path but surely it has to be worthwhile.

Dear non cypriot

I don't know where or how you've have been doing your 'research' but I can tell you now that it is seriously flawed. As a Turkish Cypriot born in Cyprus and who has experienced from first hand life in Cyprus pre 74 from a Turkish Cypriot's point of view that it is not as simple as you suggest.

For a start we have two seperate languages and religions and very little cultural commonality (unlike the Bosnian Muslims and Serbs which have a lot more in common and look what happened to them!). I don't know any TC that has married a GC and of those that i've heard about the relationships have not survived and this is mainly due to the prejudice/hate and stigmatism that currently exists on both sides (which has hardened over the past 50 years). As it currently stands there is no trust and goodwill on either side and without this we are not going to get anywhere.

I still remember pre 74 the GC army (national guard/malitia whatever you call them) stationed on a hill top just outside our village. Everyone was in a state of fear when venturing outside the village (Kuruova/Korovia). You would constantly be stopped searched and if you're carring any building materials you would be forced to empty and reload, this was simply aimed not only at creating a climate of fear but played a part in many TC's simply selling up and leaving the island (my great aunt of which was one and one of the reasons why our numbers dwindled since the late 19th to early/mid 20th century).

Our survival and existence is only due to the intervention of the Turkish army (although I accept that the Turks may of had other motives as well but having said that if it's in Britain's interest to have two significant bases in Cyprus then it is a million more times in Turkey's interest to have a presence on the island.

Yes, I agree the Turkish army should reduce their numbers and as soon as the TC's have proper and adequate security guarantess then they should eventually go together with the British army (with Turkish guarantee still in place). Turkish settlers who are recent arrivals (who are mainly economic workers) should also go.

I belive the so called 'Cyprus problem' is more complicated then your simply analysis suggests.

K

You've just told us that The GC's searched the people of your village causing your great aunt to emigrate, that Turkey has to have a presence in this country cause its close to it and that the Cyprus problem will be solved with Turkish gaurantees....and you accused the other guy of not understanding the Cyprus Problem?

[yialousa1971]

Problem will be solved when Turkish problem is dealt with. Turks have many stories, all fairy stories thou. Important point is it was all pre planned and Britain (Zionist stooge) helped this happen.

[bill cobbett]

Welcome to the Forum non-CY.

Yeah, I'd go along with what you say mate/matess.

Things become very different when the Turkish Occupation ends.

[non-cypriot]

Hi to all this is my first post.
After listening to my Turkish cypriot girlfriend's stories on Cyprus i decided to do some research to see what's the Cyprus problem all about. I have always been aware that some serious political/cultural problems riddled the isle but was ignorant to the full scale of the matter till i started dating my Tc girlfriend 3 years ago. I'v done weeks of reading reports,historical facts and documents. i have spoken to people from both communities young and old, and my final conclusion is that Turks should go, take their settlers and leave cypriots both Turkish and Greek to try and heal the wounds from the past and together build a strong country on this awesome resourceful isle. But then again I'm just an outsider and things are always a lot more sensitive through the eyes of those involved, however it seems pretty clear to me that Cyprus should be for the Cypriots regardless who the ancestors where. Cypriot identity should prevail over Greek and Turkish. I know its a cliché easily elaborated by people alien to the country and things are a lot more complex, but i have found that there is a solid cultural common ground shared by GC's and TC's and maybe once the invading forces were out of the way, all Cypriots could try to put the past behind and build towards the future. It would never be an easy path but surely it has to be worthwhile.

Dear non cypriot

I don't know where or how you've have been doing your 'research' but I can tell you now that it is seriously flawed. As a Turkish Cypriot born in Cyprus and who has experienced from first hand life in Cyprus pre 74 from a Turkish Cypriot's point of view that it is not as simple as you suggest.

For a start we have two seperate languages and religions and very little cultural commonality (unlike the Bosnian Muslims and Serbs which have a lot more in common and look what happened to them!). I don't know any TC that has married a GC and of those that i've heard about the relationships have not survived and this is mainly due to the prejudice/hate and stigmatism that currently exists on both sides (which has hardened over the past 50 years). As it currently stands there is no trust and goodwill on either side and without this we are not going to get anywhere.

I still remember pre 74 the GC army (national guard/malitia whatever you call them) stationed on a hill top just outside our village. Everyone was in a state of fear when venturing outside the village (Kuruova/Korovia). You would constantly be stopped searched and if you're carring any building materials you would be forced to empty and reload, this was simply aimed not only at creating a climate of fear but played a part in many TC's simply selling up and leaving the island (my great aunt of which was one and one of the reasons why our numbers dwindled since the late 19th to early/mid 20th century).

Our survival and existence is only due to the intervention of the Turkish army (although I accept that the Turks may of had other motives as well but having said that if it's in Britain's interest to have two significant bases in Cyprus then it is a million more times in Turkey's interest to have a presence on the island.

Yes, I agree the Turkish army should reduce their numbers and as soon as the TC's have proper and adequate security guarantess then they should eventually go together with the British army (with Turkish guarantee still in place). Turkish settlers who are recent arrivals (who are mainly economic workers) should also go.

I belive the so called 'Cyprus problem' is more complicated then your simply analysis suggests.

K

My research is internet based and out of talking to people of both communities. I did not claim that it is accurate and i will not take sides. I'm open to be better educated as long as it is done in a civilized manner. As for common cultural grounds, i have stayed, dinned and socialized with Tc's and Gc's and found little differences on mannerisms, food and general morals between both communities. Of-course there is going to be some significant differences after all you do not share the same background, however i perceive Tc's very differently from the turks which given the fact that many of the original settlers bought in by the ottomans converted to islam from christianism as a survival mechanism, it is not surprising at all.
I have also observed that the number of turk settlers and army have outnumbered the Tc's in North Cyprus which i would find a bit threatening if was a Tc.
I can understand however that some Tc's fear for their safety if the turks leave but the world has changed since before the turkish invasion, Cyrus is a solid member of the EU and a country with great potential. The people know that peace more than ever will benefit all providing the atrocities that occurred to both sides stayed in the past and do not influence the future. If that is possible or not i do not know...
And yes, the British should leave as-well.

[Kuruovali]

Hi to all this is my first post.
After listening to my Turkish cypriot girlfriend's stories on Cyprus i decided to do some research to see what's the Cyprus problem all about. I have always been aware that some serious political/cultural problems riddled the isle but was ignorant to the full scale of the matter till i started dating my Tc girlfriend 3 years ago. I'v done weeks of reading reports,historical facts and documents. i have spoken to people from both communities young and old, and my final conclusion is that Turks should go, take their settlers and leave cypriots both Turkish and Greek to try and heal the wounds from the past and together build a strong country on this awesome resourceful isle. But then again I'm just an outsider and things are always a lot more sensitive through the eyes of those involved, however it seems pretty clear to me that Cyprus should be for the Cypriots regardless who the ancestors where. Cypriot identity should prevail over Greek and Turkish. I know its a cliché easily elaborated by people alien to the country and things are a lot more complex, but i have found that there is a solid cultural common ground shared by GC's and TC's and maybe once the invading forces were out of the way, all Cypriots could try to put the past behind and build towards the future. It would never be an easy path but surely it has to be worthwhile.

Dear non cypriot

I don't know where or how you've have been doing your 'research' but I can tell you now that it is seriously flawed. As a Turkish Cypriot born in Cyprus and who has experienced from first hand life in Cyprus pre 74 from a Turkish Cypriot's point of view that it is not as simple as you suggest.

For a start we have two seperate languages and religions and very little cultural commonality (unlike the Bosnian Muslims and Serbs which have a lot more in common and look what happened to them!). I don't know any TC that has married a GC and of those that i've heard about the relationships have not survived and this is mainly due to the prejudice/hate and stigmatism that currently exists on both sides (which has hardened over the past 50 years). As it currently stands there is no trust and goodwill on either side and without this we are not going to get anywhere.

I still remember pre 74 the GC army (national guard/malitia whatever you call them) stationed on a hill top just outside our village. Everyone was in a state of fear when venturing outside the village (Kuruova/Korovia). You would constantly be stopped searched and if you're carring any building materials you would be forced to empty and reload, this was simply aimed not only at creating a climate of fear but played a part in many TC's simply selling up and leaving the island (my great aunt of which was one and one of the reasons why our numbers dwindled since the late 19th to early/mid 20th century).

Our survival and existence is only due to the intervention of the Turkish army (although I accept that the Turks may of had other motives as well but having said that if it's in Britain's interest to have two significant bases in Cyprus then it is a million more times in Turkey's interest to have a presence on the island.

Yes, I agree the Turkish army should reduce their numbers and as soon as the TC's have proper and adequate security guarantess then they should eventually go together with the British army (with Turkish guarantee still in place). Turkish settlers who are recent arrivals (who are mainly economic workers) should also go.

I belive the so called 'Cyprus problem' is more complicated then your simply analysis suggests.

K

My research is internet based and out of talking to people of both communities. I did not claim that it is accurate and i will not take sides. I'm open to be better educated as long as it is done in a civilized manner. As for common cultural grounds, i have stayed, dinned and socialized with Tc's and Gc's and found little differences on mannerisms, food and general morals between both communities. Of-course there is going to be some significant differences after all you do not share the same background, however i perceive Tc's very differently from the turks which given the fact that many of the original settlers bought in by the ottomans converted to islam from christianism as a survival mechanism, it is not surprising at all.
I have also observed that the number of turk settlers and army have outnumbered the Tc's in North Cyprus which i would find a bit threatening if was a Tc.
I can understand however that some Tc's fear for their safety if the turks leave but the world has changed since before the turkish invasion, Cyrus is a solid member of the EU and a country with great potential. The people know that peace more than ever will benefit all providing the atrocities that occurred to both sides stayed in the past and do not influence the future. If that is possible or not i do not know...
And yes, the British should leave as-well.

Dear non- cypriot,

Yes, you are right peace will benefit both sides. With peace the TC kids will be able to grow up with hope rather then despair. With peace most GC's (most) will get back their properties or compensation. In 2004 the UN put forth their plan (backed by the EU) aimed at resolving the Cyprus dispute. Have you read about this plan? The majority of TC voted in favour and the majority of GC's voted against. As for the EU they have a lot of ground to make up for. The EU promised the TC's a lifeline via opening of markets in return for voting for a solution and when the TC did just that the EU just turned and walked away pretending that it somehow does not matter and in return the EU rewarded the GC's with membership (which the GC's and some EU countries are now using as a weapon agianst the Turks but to no avial!) How fair is that! If the EU was really honest and sincere to the TC's they could have quite simply made the decision not to allow membership until a resolution to the Cyprus problem but they chose not too, what was the urgency? Now we are seeing a lot of EU members objecting to Turkey's membership on the basis of Cyprus. It appears that GC's as well as TC's are simply being used as pawns.

K

[Jerry]

Kuruovali, the problem is that the TCs (prompted and supported by Turkey) want too much of and from Cyprus. They are less than one fifth of the population and yet they want an equality that does the exact opposite of what is intended - it puts them at odds with the GCs. Would you be happy with the descendants of your colonial masters being given constitutional powers in excess of your numbers? It's a bit like rubbing salt in the wound.

The Annan plan was unfair, that's why the GCs rejected it. It's not 1960 you know, we can't be forced to accept something we don't want. As to guarantees, perhaps you can tell me where else in the world one country has a legal right to forcfuly interfere in the affairs of another sovereign state. Membership of the EU is the only guarantee you need.

[Piratis]

I fully agree with non-Cypriot.

Kuruovali, you seem to blame GCs for what happened in the past, and yet all of the wars and conflicts on the island were started by the Turks.

The very first one, in 1571, was started by the Turks. Without that there would be no Turks in Cyprus and therefore no problems. The Cypriot people were oppressed by the Turks for more than 3 centuries, and then just 80 years after the Ottoman rule ended, in 1958, the TCs attacked the GCs starting the intercommunal conflict. You blame the GCs for your casualties and suffering during the years of the conflict, but you seem to forget our casulties and our suffering, and most importantly that it is you who started that conflict.

If you look in the past, you suffered because of us for a decade (because of a conflict which you started). We suffered from you not only during that decade, but also for 3+ centuries before that, and 35 years after that.

You are simply looking for excuses to continue committing crimes against the Cypriot people, and continue having Ottoman Style privileges on our expense.

Cyprus doesn't need any more such racist discriminations and human rights violations. There are many multi-ethnic countries where citizens are equal to each other regardless of their race, language and religion, and Cyprus can be one of them. If you think that you are so different from the rest of Cypriots (which include not only GCs, but also Armenians, Latins, Maronite and others - all peacefully living together with no problems) then you should blame your ancestors for bringing you in an island where the native population was so different from you. Why should we be ethnically cleansed from the lands we inhabited for 1000s of years, just because some of you are racists and can not accept to be equal citizens along with all the other Cypriots?

[Dr J]

In 2004 the UN put forth their plan (backed by the EU) aimed at resolving the Cyprus dispute. Have you read about this plan?

Have YOU??

The EU promised the TC's a lifeline via opening of markets in return for voting for a solution and when the TC did just that the EU just turned and walked away pretending that it somehow does not matter and in return the EU rewarded the GC's with membership (which the GC's and some EU countries are now using as a weapon agianst the Turks but to no avial!) How fair is that!

What exactly did the EU promise? I have heard a lot of heresay but no exact quotes.

With regards to EU membership, i've said it all along to Turkish Cypriots - blame your leaders. Blame Denktash for messing about for 30 odd years while the RoC were helpless in achieving a sensible settlement. Blame Turkey for lieing to you and saying it was ok to live in other peoples houses when the whole world said it wasnt. Blame Turkey again for telling you that the 'TRNC' would be achieved when we all new it wouldnt.