Cyprus-Forum.com

[wyoming cowboy]

Using some abstract vision into my metaphor, of course there will be some drivers going over the speedlimit, regardless if there is a speed sign or not. My point is is that it is illegal either way signup/sign down. When in the first paragraph of the ROC constitution it specifically states that the nation will be a democratic republic, then majority rules. In constitutional philosophy it is just a big a crime to violate the majorities rights in a democracy as it is for the majority to take away the civil rights of the minority.....There is not one specific time that the majority Greeks tried to take away the civil rights of the minority Turks civil rights, not in the Makarios' 13 points or anyother government sanctioned occurence..if you can find it then lets see it..On the other hand the Turk cyp minority of 18 percent at the time now its down to 12%, tried repeatedly to violate the majorities rights by insisting on their veto power, The veto was primarily in place as a mechanism to stop civil rights violations by the Majority, which was never used in that purpose but instead was used to veto Makarios trips to eastern block countries....

Unfortunately VP its your people who didnt know what they were signing...The establishment of a Democratic Republic IMPLIES that majority rules...as long as civil rights are safeguarded. Even if it wasnt specified in the written constitution the majority has these rights. For instance if a speed limit sign is knocked down it doesnt mean that one can drive as fast as they want.. If the vast majority Greek cyps wanted to amend the constitution it was inwithin their implied rights as a majority to do so. None of the 13 points were detrimental to the rights of the Turkish cyps..Make sure your people read it this time very well....

What rights are you talking about, you have freedoms you cannot see yourself giving to the Greek cypriots, can a GC go and live on his land like you can. Does a GC try and take away your dignity and civil rights by keeping a foreign occuppyer on his lands. Your people need to sstop insisting on taking away the rights of the majority...Your people have been insisting on equal political power since the beginning that is more a violation of the rights of the GC then anything they have ever done to the Turkis cypriots...We live in a democratic representative republic and want to keep it like that....Not where 15% of the population will get to dictate to the majority....if you think the GC will acccept such a deal you are stupid, actually you are stupid because you thought the GC would accept the Fascist Annan plan....

Yeah alright lets get rid of the Turkish army before a settlement and gift the GCs the right to do whatever they wish....me thinks not, we have been there before..give us our rights and the Turkish army will go.

Read your own constitution you will see our rights there...with your signature on it, sorry forgot you renegged on that one, which does not make you a trustworthy partner as you could do the same again, thats why we demand safeguards and guarantees to make you stick to what you agree.

Having read your post, I feel a bit uneasy trying to explain things to you as I do not know you that well. Anyway, your speed limit metaphore is the problem. There will always be those motorists who will take advantage of the situation. They will speed regardless of any limits. So it was pointless to put 'your' case like that.

As to your other point regarding the amendments, do you have first hand knowledge of the events are is your information subsequent. There were issues involving the municipalities and the funding for the Turkish sector already causing problems. The amendments/proposed amendments did not help the situation.
In any future settlement (Insallah) I hope this problem will be taken into account without the crushing of anyones democratic rights. Can the politicians manage this?

[wyoming cowboy]

Thomas Jefferson said, "If the rights of the majority are violated by the minority, then mayhem will follow"

[denizaksulu]

Thomas Jefferson said, "If the rights of the majority are violated by the minority, then mayhem will follow"

I believe in one man one vote, but there must be a system in place which is JUST'. We cant keep on arguing about Majority this and Minority that.
This must be addressed so we are all happy. I know its a tall order, but if we want a re-unification its worth working hard on a 'JUST' solution for all.

How? Thats not my department.

[Viewpoint]

Thomas Jefferson said, "If the rights of the majority are violated by the minority, then mayhem will follow"

I believe in one man one vote, but there must be a system in place which is JUST'. We cant keep on arguing about Majority this and Minority that.
This must be addressed so we are all happy. I know its a tall order, but if we want a re-unification its worth working hard on a 'JUST' solution for all.

How? Thats not my department.

If the majority do not respect the freedoms of the minority then that minority will rebel, just like when GCs decided to turn Cyprus into Greece.

[DT.]

Thomas Jefferson said, "If the rights of the majority are violated by the minority, then mayhem will follow"

I believe in one man one vote, but there must be a system in place which is JUST'. We cant keep on arguing about Majority this and Minority that.
This must be addressed so we are all happy. I know its a tall order, but if we want a re-unification its worth working hard on a 'JUST' solution for all.

How? Thats not my department.

If the majority do not respect the freedoms of the minority then that minority will rebel, just like when GCs decided to turn Cyprus into Greece.

When did the TC's rebel?

[shahmaran]

There can never be a true democracy amongst nations with profound divisions, not without screwing somebodies rights anyways.

So change the tune guys...

I know Greeks take extra pride over this system, being the founders and all but I must say it is absolutely fucking shit in certain cases. Cyprus being one of them. Turkey being another one.

You hear all these GC's cry for democracy left and right but I bet you not one would mention the name if it were them who were out numbered.

So they are not truly after "democracy", they are just after power over everything since fire power didn't work the way they hoped...

[boomerang]

There can never be a true democracy amongst nations with profound divisions, not without screwing somebodys rights anyways.

So change the tune guys...

the only division is the greek-turk thing...allegiance to Cyprus is the only way...

[shahmaran]

There can never be a true democracy amongst nations with profound divisions, not without screwing somebodys rights anyways.

So change the tune guys...

the only division is the greek-turk thing...allegiance to Cyprus is the only way...

Sorry I edited.

Well the "Greek - Turk" thing happens to represent many other forms of division within themselves. It's never going to work, not unless one rules over the other. It has never really worked otherwise throughout the history of this island (not counting that short and sad attempt for an equal power share), what makes anyone think that it might now?

[boomerang]

There can never be a true democracy amongst nations with profound divisions, not without screwing somebodys rights anyways.

So change the tune guys...

the only division is the greek-turk thing...allegiance to Cyprus is the only way...

Sorry I edited.

Well the "Greek - Turk" thing happens to represent many other forms of division within themselves. It's never going to work, not unless one rules over the other. It has never really worked otherwise throughout the history of this island (not counting that short and sad attempt for an equal power share), what makes anyone think that it might now?

it's gotta start at some point in time...otherwise we will be discussing this till kingdom come...

it's not about ruling each other but rather what can the government can do for me as a citizen...

[shahmaran]

There can never be a true democracy amongst nations with profound divisions, not without screwing somebodys rights anyways.

So change the tune guys...

the only division is the greek-turk thing...allegiance to Cyprus is the only way...

Sorry I edited.

Well the "Greek - Turk" thing happens to represent many other forms of division within themselves. It's never going to work, not unless one rules over the other. It has never really worked otherwise throughout the history of this island (not counting that short and sad attempt for an equal power share), what makes anyone think that it might now?

it's gotta start at some point in time...otherwise we will be discussing this till kingdom come...

it's not about ruling each other but rather what can the government can do for me as a citizen...

I think a fair state system would be a good way to start the way for a multi staged solution that can eventually lead towards total unity, in order to give time to "equalise" the 2 people.

How can anyone expect fairness and democracy by joining 2 people witch so much reason to hate each other, where one is filthy rich while the other has been under isolation for the past 40 years and is a quarter of their size? It just doesn't make sense to me.

An unfair system would just totally diminish the chances to fuel patriotism amongst the people towards one Cyprus and unity cannot go anywhere without it.