Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

YFred raises an interesting point. The evidence presented by Ahmet An suggests that Turkey was trying to ensure a victory by the UBP in the 2003 elections. For example:

3.27.3 Ordinary people were brought in from Turkey to attend the meetings of the UBP. It
was reported that seven buses full of such people were carried by ferry-boat to Famagusta and
the expenses were paid by Mustafa Ozbek, leader of the Turkish Metal-Sen Trade Union.
(Kibris, 11.12.03)

3.27.4 Kibris reported that the UBP hired people from the poor quarters of Nicosia, eg
Kaimakli and the old city, for 20 million TL to populate the Ataturk Stadium during the music
festival of the UBP. (Kibris, 21.11.03)

3.28.6 Excerpt from a letter sent to the columnist Mebmet Altan at www.gazetem.net by a
25 year-old Turkish Cypriot unemployed university graduate: "I would like to refer to an
operation executed in the Karpas region.a region mostly populated by Turkish settlers.on
the night before the elections. . .On that night, the Turkish generals visited the villages in the
Karpas area one by one and told the people that "no vote would be given to the opposition."
Incredible threats were aired. Words like this were uttered: "If the opposition wins from the
ballot boxes of this region, all of you will be sent to Turkey." If you look at the distribution of
votes by region, you will see that these threats helped since the opposition received less than
20% of the vote there." (Ortam, 18.12.03)

Yet, the CTP emerged as the victors in this lection. This certainly contradicts the view expressed by the people at Afrika newspaper, who argue that it was Turkey which brought the CTP into power in 2003 because it suited her interests to do so.

Bastards!!! Big countries manipulating small ones...Where the hell did they learn that from???

You see Zan, they are being very quiet about this because it proves their main theory wrong regarding TCs and elections.

Well here we are stood up to Turkey and elected a President which they did not approve and what did we get from the GCs, not even a Trojan horse. They gave us Papadobullaki who had no intention of solving the Cyprus problem which wasted all the negotiating time till Christofias arrived. And where did start from? Where Papadobullaki left off. Go figure that out. And of course the TCs will get the blame for non solution, they think. All I can say to all of them is be prepared to be shocked not in too distant future.

Theory!! What theory??? They are flailing about like beached whales flipping their tails at anything remotely like a wet patch in the sand.

They just throw enough shit around knowing that at least some will stick. I am getting more angry at those that don't simply wipe it off for what it is...Shit!!!

I am sure wet-wipes are cheaper in the north, particularly the ones made in Turkey, I know it will be like a red rag to a bull but why don't we club together and send them some?

[zan]

YFred raises an interesting point. The evidence presented by Ahmet An suggests that Turkey was trying to ensure a victory by the UBP in the 2003 elections. For example:

3.27.3 Ordinary people were brought in from Turkey to attend the meetings of the UBP. It
was reported that seven buses full of such people were carried by ferry-boat to Famagusta and
the expenses were paid by Mustafa Ozbek, leader of the Turkish Metal-Sen Trade Union.
(Kibris, 11.12.03)

3.27.4 Kibris reported that the UBP hired people from the poor quarters of Nicosia, eg
Kaimakli and the old city, for 20 million TL to populate the Ataturk Stadium during the music
festival of the UBP. (Kibris, 21.11.03)

3.28.6 Excerpt from a letter sent to the columnist Mebmet Altan at www.gazetem.net by a
25 year-old Turkish Cypriot unemployed university graduate: "I would like to refer to an
operation executed in the Karpas region.a region mostly populated by Turkish settlers.on
the night before the elections. . .On that night, the Turkish generals visited the villages in the
Karpas area one by one and told the people that "no vote would be given to the opposition."
Incredible threats were aired. Words like this were uttered: "If the opposition wins from the
ballot boxes of this region, all of you will be sent to Turkey." If you look at the distribution of
votes by region, you will see that these threats helped since the opposition received less than
20% of the vote there." (Ortam, 18.12.03)

Yet, the CTP emerged as the victors in this lection. This certainly contradicts the view expressed by the people at Afrika newspaper, who argue that it was Turkey which brought the CTP into power in 2003 because it suited her interests to do so.

Bastards!!! Big countries manipulating small ones...Where the hell did they learn that from???

You see Zan, they are being very quiet about this because it proves their main theory wrong regarding TCs and elections.

Well here we are stood up to Turkey and elected a President which they did not approve and what did we get from the GCs, not even a Trojan horse. They gave us Papadobullaki who had no intention of solving the Cyprus problem which wasted all the negotiating time till Christofias arrived. And where did start from? Where Papadobullaki left off. Go figure that out. And of course the TCs will get the blame for non solution, they think. All I can say to all of them is be prepared to be shocked not in too distant future.

Theory!! What theory??? They are flailing about like beached whales flipping their tails at anything remotely like a wet patch in the sand.

They just throw enough shit around knowing that at least some will stick. I am getting more angry at those that don't simply wipe it off for what it is...Shit!!!

I am sure wet-wipes are cheaper in the north, particularly the ones made in Turkey, I know it will be like a red rag to a bull but why don't we club together and send them some?

A friend of mine took an orange to NO.10 after a rally a few years back...Perhaps its time for the wet wipes for sure!!!!

[DT.]

you 2 may think you're talking but for the rest of us all we get is this. Who wants to be Yfred's and Zan's 3rd?

[zan]

you 2 may think you're talking but for the rest of us all we get is this. Who wants to be Yfred's and Zan's 3rd?

You just love it when you feel like part of a crowd don't you DT....Do you need friends that much`??? Well I say you can be the third in our little wankfest.....We could do with a laugh!!!!

[DT.]

you 2 may think you're talking but for the rest of us all we get is this. Who wants to be Yfred's and Zan's 3rd?

You just love it when you feel like part of a crowd don't you DT....Do you need friends that much`??? Well I say you can be the third in our little wankfest.....We could do with a laugh!!!!

Zan, read back what you and your gimp have been writing in this and the other 2 threads and tell me what other smilie you deserved?

[YFred]

you 2 may think you're talking but for the rest of us all we get is this. Who wants to be Yfred's and Zan's 3rd?

You just love it when you feel like part of a crowd don't you DT....Do you need friends that much`??? Well I say you can be the third in our little wankfest.....We could do with a laugh!!!!

Zan, read back what you and your gimp have been writing in this and the other 2 threads and tell me what other smilie you deserved?

What's the matter DT, what's buggering you? ohps I meant bugging you?

[Oracle]

you 2 may think you're talking but for the rest of us all we get is this. Who wants to be Yfred's and Zan's 3rd?

The one GR! uses makes a mess ....

[YFred]

YFred raises an interesting point. The evidence presented by Ahmet An suggests that Turkey was trying to ensure a victory by the UBP in the 2003 elections. For example:

3.27.3 Ordinary people were brought in from Turkey to attend the meetings of the UBP. It
was reported that seven buses full of such people were carried by ferry-boat to Famagusta and
the expenses were paid by Mustafa Ozbek, leader of the Turkish Metal-Sen Trade Union.
(Kibris, 11.12.03)

3.27.4 Kibris reported that the UBP hired people from the poor quarters of Nicosia, eg
Kaimakli and the old city, for 20 million TL to populate the Ataturk Stadium during the music
festival of the UBP. (Kibris, 21.11.03)

3.28.6 Excerpt from a letter sent to the columnist Mebmet Altan at www.gazetem.net by a
25 year-old Turkish Cypriot unemployed university graduate: "I would like to refer to an
operation executed in the Karpas region.a region mostly populated by Turkish settlers.on
the night before the elections. . .On that night, the Turkish generals visited the villages in the
Karpas area one by one and told the people that "no vote would be given to the opposition."
Incredible threats were aired. Words like this were uttered: "If the opposition wins from the
ballot boxes of this region, all of you will be sent to Turkey." If you look at the distribution of
votes by region, you will see that these threats helped since the opposition received less than
20% of the vote there." (Ortam, 18.12.03)

Yet, the CTP emerged as the victors in this lection. This certainly contradicts the view expressed by the people at Afrika newspaper, who argue that it was Turkey which brought the CTP into power in 2003 because it suited her interests to do so.

Tim, Turkey does not need to influence any "elections" in the occupied, so that she gets her "chosen" ones to "win!" Turkey does not care who gets to "power" in the north. Turkey knows that whoever claims victory and gets "elected," in the end of the day is only a pawn that will have no other option than to obey what Turkey will order them to do, no matter who they are. Stop thinking that Turkey cares whichever Karagioz will show off as the "president" or the "prime-minister," when in fact they can force them to resign in less than a second, by merely picking up the phone and telling him /them so. They can order their security body guards to abandon them, remove their car drivers, even cut the electricity of their offices or block the use of their mobiles, in just one second, and they immediately become kings without kingdoms. Turkey does not care what the name of the puppet is, when in fact they are in control of everything in the occupied north, including the puppet's very breath!

Kifeas if you are right, then why go into so much trouble to influence an election? it just does not add up, does it?

[Kikapu]

YFred raises an interesting point. The evidence presented by Ahmet An suggests that Turkey was trying to ensure a victory by the UBP in the 2003 elections. For example:

3.27.3 Ordinary people were brought in from Turkey to attend the meetings of the UBP. It
was reported that seven buses full of such people were carried by ferry-boat to Famagusta and
the expenses were paid by Mustafa Ozbek, leader of the Turkish Metal-Sen Trade Union.
(Kibris, 11.12.03)

3.27.4 Kibris reported that the UBP hired people from the poor quarters of Nicosia, eg
Kaimakli and the old city, for 20 million TL to populate the Ataturk Stadium during the music
festival of the UBP. (Kibris, 21.11.03)

3.28.6 Excerpt from a letter sent to the columnist Mebmet Altan at www.gazetem.net by a
25 year-old Turkish Cypriot unemployed university graduate: "I would like to refer to an
operation executed in the Karpas region.a region mostly populated by Turkish settlers.on
the night before the elections. . .On that night, the Turkish generals visited the villages in the
Karpas area one by one and told the people that "no vote would be given to the opposition."Incredible threats were aired. Words like this were uttered: "If the opposition wins from the
ballot boxes of this region, all of you will be sent to Turkey." If you look at the distribution of
votes by region, you will see that these threats helped since the opposition received less than
20% of the vote there." (Ortam, 18.12.03)

Yet, the CTP emerged as the victors in this lection. This certainly contradicts the view expressed by the people at Afrika newspaper, who argue that it was Turkey which brought the CTP into power in 2003 because it suited her interests to do so.

Tim,

Don't let YFred lead you astray too much with his smoking mirrors theories regarding the elections in 2003 as to why CTP won and UBP did not, because YFred's knowledge and understanding of Politics, is very much One Dimensional to say the least. He has a long way to go yet before he can see things politically in a Two Dimensional way, which means he misses a lot of information that are on the surface, under the surface, and way under the surface. I believe is the maximum YFred's political elevator will ever go up to.!

It was not Turkey who was behind Denktash and the UBP but the Generals as the above article clearly states. Since when does the Turkish civilian government control what the Generals do.? If anything, it is the Generals who tell the government what to do for a very long time, and it is only in recent times that the civilian government have been tolerated by the Generals, only because US tells them to do so. It was the Generals who supported the UBP and not the Turkish Government, therefore Africa did get it right by stating that CTP won with Turkey's backing, because Turkey knew, that if Denktash was in power, the GC's for sure were going to vote NO on the Annan Plan, because Denktash who was in power for close to 30 years without any serious attempt to have peace was not trusted by the GC's, because they knew that as far as Denktash was concerned, Cyprus problems were over in 1974, therefore he could not careless having any peace with the GC's, even if it meant it would eventually benefit Turkey to get into the EU.

Turkey needed a YES vote on the AP, not only from the TC's, but more importantly, from the GC's. Had the GC's said yes to AP, Turkey would not be in the problems she is today with her EU ambitions, and she would have had greater control over the whole island and it's waters and airspace. CTP was the "Trojan Horse" for Turkey to get the YES vote on the AP, and not because they were there to have a genuine peace, as perhaps what the people in the streets may have thought at the time just because they were sold a lot of "damaged goods" in believing in that, but Turkey was only looking after her own interests first. Denktash and the UBP could not have delivered the YES vote Turkey needed therefore Turkey had ZERO intentions backing them. The Generals and Denktash were very happy with the way things were and were not in need for any changes, hence the fact reportedly said after the AP failed he said, "Thank God the GC's said NO". In actual fact, had the AP was a YES with it's totally one sided so called "peace plan", Denktash would have been happy with the final outcome, since it would have lead into a official partition of the island, and most of all the settlers would have stayed along with the military, therefore I don't buy into what he reportedly said after the AP vote. I think it was a cheap shot aimed at Turkey was sidelining him for the CTP.

Why do you think all the NeoPartitionist and all the leadership in the north never stop talking about the Annan Plan well after 5 years has gone by.? Because "it's the one that got away" and had UBP won in 2003, the AP would have lost that same very day. CTP gave Turkey some hope, but hope was enough, because in the end, Turkey killed the goose that would have laid the golden eggs by adding more and more unacceptable terms into the AP, and Papadapolous just let it happen without raising an objection, because he was after the EU membership, and got it, in effect, outfoxing everyone. Had the AP was more balance, there could have been a YES vote, but Turkey did not want a balanced plan. In the end, Turkey did not get what she wanted, and the RoC did, with or without a YES on the AP.

[YFred]

YFred raises an interesting point. The evidence presented by Ahmet An suggests that Turkey was trying to ensure a victory by the UBP in the 2003 elections. For example:

3.27.3 Ordinary people were brought in from Turkey to attend the meetings of the UBP. It
was reported that seven buses full of such people were carried by ferry-boat to Famagusta and
the expenses were paid by Mustafa Ozbek, leader of the Turkish Metal-Sen Trade Union.
(Kibris, 11.12.03)

3.27.4 Kibris reported that the UBP hired people from the poor quarters of Nicosia, eg
Kaimakli and the old city, for 20 million TL to populate the Ataturk Stadium during the music
festival of the UBP. (Kibris, 21.11.03)

3.28.6 Excerpt from a letter sent to the columnist Mebmet Altan at www.gazetem.net by a
25 year-old Turkish Cypriot unemployed university graduate: "I would like to refer to an
operation executed in the Karpas region.a region mostly populated by Turkish settlers.on
the night before the elections. . .On that night, the Turkish generals visited the villages in the
Karpas area one by one and told the people that "no vote would be given to the opposition."Incredible threats were aired. Words like this were uttered: "If the opposition wins from the
ballot boxes of this region, all of you will be sent to Turkey." If you look at the distribution of
votes by region, you will see that these threats helped since the opposition received less than
20% of the vote there." (Ortam, 18.12.03)

Yet, the CTP emerged as the victors in this lection. This certainly contradicts the view expressed by the people at Afrika newspaper, who argue that it was Turkey which brought the CTP into power in 2003 because it suited her interests to do so.

Tim,

Don't let YFred lead you astray too much with his smoking mirrors theories regarding the elections in 2003 as to why CTP won and UBP did not, because YFred's knowledge and understanding of Politics, is very much One Dimensional to say the least. He has a long way to go yet before he can see things politically in a Two Dimensional way, which means he misses a lot of information that are on the surface, under the surface, and way under the surface. I believe is the maximum YFred's political elevator will ever go up to.!

It was not Turkey who was behind Denktash and the UBP but the Generals as the above article clearly states. Since when does the Turkish civilian government control what the Generals do.? If anything, it is the Generals who tell the government what to do for a very long time, and it is only in recent times that the civilian government have been tolerated by the Generals, only because US tells them to do so. It was the Generals who supported the UBP and not the Turkish Government, therefore Africa did get it right by stating that CTP won with Turkey's backing, because Turkey knew, that if Denktash was in power, the GC's for sure were going to vote NO on the Annan Plan, because Denktash who was in power for close to 30 years without any serious attempt to have peace was not trusted by the GC's, because they knew that as far as Denktash was concerned, Cyprus problems were over in 1974, therefore he could not careless having any peace with the GC's, even if it meant it would eventually benefit Turkey to get into the EU.

Turkey needed a YES vote on the AP, not only from the TC's, but more importantly, from the GC's. Had the GC's said yes to AP, Turkey would not be in the problems she is today with her EU ambitions, and she would have had greater control over the whole island and it's waters and airspace. CTP was the "Trojan Horse" for Turkey to get the YES vote on the AP, and not because they were there to have a genuine peace, as perhaps what the people in the streets may have thought at the time just because they were sold a lot of "damaged goods" in believing in that, but Turkey was only looking after her own interests first. Denktash and the UBP could not have delivered the YES vote Turkey needed therefore Turkey had ZERO intentions backing them. The Generals and Denktash were very happy with the way things were and were not in need for any changes, hence the fact reportedly said after the AP failed he said, "Thank God the GC's said NO". In actual fact, had the AP was a YES with it's totally one sided so called "peace plan", Denktash would have been happy with the final outcome, since it would have lead into a official partition of the island, and most of all the settlers would have stayed along with the military, therefore I don't buy into what he reportedly said after the AP vote. I think it was a cheap shot aimed at Turkey was sidelining him for the CTP.

Why do you think all the NeoPartitionist and all the leadership in the north never stop talking about the Annan Plan well after 5 years has gone by.? Because "it's the one that got away" and had UBP won in 2003, the AP would have lost that same very day. CTP gave Turkey some hope, but hope was enough, because in the end, Turkey killed the goose that would have laid the golden eggs by adding more and more unacceptable terms into the AP, and Papadapolous just let it happen without raising an objection, because he was after the EU membership, and got it, in effect, outfoxing everyone. Had the AP was more balance, there could have been a YES vote, but Turkey did not want a balanced plan. In the end, Turkey did not get what she wanted, and the RoC did, with or without a YES on the AP.

In Turkey who is pro EU and who is not? Is Denktas and the Generals pro EU for Turkey? Please enlighten us?