Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Paphitis what he's saying is that the type of targets that the TAF would want to hit in Cyprus are not the conventional ones where you can just program them in from Turkey with a primary and secondary target and then send a cruise missile over.

There will not be any stationery targets in Cyprus to hit. What there will be will be the odd tank battalion and the odd artillery unit. An aircraft flying at 18,000 feet is useless at hitting both of these.

If you remember the pictures of 1974 the F5's were barely 100ft off the ground scavenging for targets. After the airport and the power plants have been hit there's nothing else to go after unless you're getting coordinates from the ground.

And as the HAF has proven many times, the TAF are not the best pilots in the world anyway.

DT, I was discussing the impotency of Air Defence Systems such as TOR 1 and the BUK M1 against HARM attack. I made no mention of any Desert Storm operation in Cyprus.

The systems would be very stationary whilst tracking to fire, thus emitting radiation which make them susceptible to HARM strike. I'm basically saying that the minute these systems are turned on, they are cactus from AGM-88 HARM A2G.

[Gregory]

Paphitis what he's saying is that the type of targets that the TAF would want to hit in Cyprus are not the conventional ones where you can just program them in from Turkey with a primary and secondary target and then send a cruise missile over.

There will not be any stationery targets in Cyprus to hit. What there will be will be the odd tank battalion and the odd artillery unit. An aircraft flying at 18,000 feet is useless at hitting both of these.

If you remember the pictures of 1974 the F5's were barely 100ft off the ground scavenging for targets. After the airport and the power plants have been hit there's nothing else to go after unless you're getting coordinates from the ground.

And as the HAF has proven many times, the TAF are not the best pilots in the world anyway.

DT, I was discussing the impotency of Air Defence Systems such as TOR 1 and the BUK M1 against HARM attack. I made no mention of any Desert Storm operation in Cyprus.

The systems would be very stationary whilst tracking to fire, thus emitting radiation which make them susceptible to HARM strike. I'm basically saying that the minute these systems are turned on, they are cactus from AGM-88 HARM A2G.

I guess what the other 2 guys before Paphitis are trying to say is that there will be no kill chains in a war in Cyprus because the non-kinetic targets are so few. This forces the TAF into dangerous low flying scouting missions for individual units.

One thing we're confident about in the NG is that with all the known and publicly unknown SAM's of the Republic, Turkey would be trying to step on a porcupine with flip flops.

[Paphitis]

Paphitis what he's saying is that the type of targets that the TAF would want to hit in Cyprus are not the conventional ones where you can just program them in from Turkey with a primary and secondary target and then send a cruise missile over.

There will not be any stationery targets in Cyprus to hit. What there will be will be the odd tank battalion and the odd artillery unit. An aircraft flying at 18,000 feet is useless at hitting both of these.

If you remember the pictures of 1974 the F5's were barely 100ft off the ground scavenging for targets. After the airport and the power plants have been hit there's nothing else to go after unless you're getting coordinates from the ground.

And as the HAF has proven many times, the TAF are not the best pilots in the world anyway.

DT, I was discussing the impotency of Air Defence Systems such as TOR 1 and the BUK M1 against HARM attack. I made no mention of any Desert Storm operation in Cyprus.

The systems would be very stationary whilst tracking to fire, thus emitting radiation which make them susceptible to HARM strike. I'm basically saying that the minute these systems are turned on, they are cactus from AGM-88 HARM A2G.

I guess what the other 2 guys before Paphitis are trying to say is that there will be no kill chains in a war in Cyprus because the non-kinetic targets are so few. This forces the TAF into dangerous low flying scouting missions for individual units.

One thing we're confident about in the NG is that with all the known and publicly unknown SAM's of the Republic, Turkey would be trying to step on a porcupine with flip flops.

I know they are mobile, but whilst they are operational and tracking, they are vulnerable to HARM attack. Their surviveability is very low, unless you plan to not use them at all, and just move them around the countryside. I'm sure I said that 3 times already...

[EPSILON]

Information from Greek ministry of defence suggest that they are working on a scenario that a Turkish airplane decide to land in one of the Greek Islands.!!!!!!!!
During the last 2 days Turkish planes are flying 350mtrs over Agathonisi .

The only thing which maybe Turks not taking into account is the reaction of local hunters, since Greek Ministry's reaction expected to be a notam to Turkey and then allow the plane to depart!!!

[Paphitis]

Information from Greek ministry of defence suggest that they are working on a scenario that a Turkish airplane decide to land in one of the Greek Islands.!!!!!!!!
During the last 2 days Turkish planes are flying 350mtrs over Agathonisi .

The only thing which maybe Turks not taking into account is the reaction of local hunters, since Greek Ministry's reaction expected to be a notam to Turkey and then allow the plane to depart!!!

Do you have a copy of this NOTAM?

It would make interesting reading...

An enemy violates sovereign airspace and our response is to send them a NOTAM?? Would a clearance to land follow suit?

[Gregory]

Paphitis what he's saying is that the type of targets that the TAF would want to hit in Cyprus are not the conventional ones where you can just program them in from Turkey with a primary and secondary target and then send a cruise missile over.

There will not be any stationery targets in Cyprus to hit. What there will be will be the odd tank battalion and the odd artillery unit. An aircraft flying at 18,000 feet is useless at hitting both of these.

If you remember the pictures of 1974 the F5's were barely 100ft off the ground scavenging for targets. After the airport and the power plants have been hit there's nothing else to go after unless you're getting coordinates from the ground.

And as the HAF has proven many times, the TAF are not the best pilots in the world anyway.

DT, I was discussing the impotency of Air Defence Systems such as TOR 1 and the BUK M1 against HARM attack. I made no mention of any Desert Storm operation in Cyprus.

The systems would be very stationary whilst tracking to fire, thus emitting radiation which make them susceptible to HARM strike. I'm basically saying that the minute these systems are turned on, they are cactus from AGM-88 HARM A2G.

I guess what the other 2 guys before Paphitis are trying to say is that there will be no kill chains in a war in Cyprus because the non-kinetic targets are so few. This forces the TAF into dangerous low flying scouting missions for individual units.

One thing we're confident about in the NG is that with all the known and publicly unknown SAM's of the Republic, Turkey would be trying to step on a porcupine with flip flops.

I know they are mobile, but whilst they are operational and tracking, they are vulnerable to HARM attack. There surviveability is very low, unless you plan to not use them at all, and just move them around the countryside. I'm sure I said that 3 times already...

[denizaksulu]

Paphitis what he's saying is that the type of targets that the TAF would want to hit in Cyprus are not the conventional ones where you can just program them in from Turkey with a primary and secondary target and then send a cruise missile over.

There will not be any stationery targets in Cyprus to hit. What there will be will be the odd tank battalion and the odd artillery unit. An aircraft flying at 18,000 feet is useless at hitting both of these.

If you remember the pictures of 1974 the F5's were barely 100ft off the ground scavenging for targets. After the airport and the power plants have been hit there's nothing else to go after unless you're getting coordinates from the ground.

And as the HAF has proven many times, the TAF are not the best pilots in the world anyway.

DT, I was discussing the impotency of Air Defence Systems such as TOR 1 and the BUK M1 against HARM attack. I made no mention of any Desert Storm operation in Cyprus.

The systems would be very stationary whilst tracking to fire, thus emitting radiation which make them susceptible to HARM strike. I'm basically saying that the minute these systems are turned on, they are cactus from AGM-88 HARM A2G.

I guess what the other 2 guys before Paphitis are trying to say is that there will be no kill chains in a war in Cyprus because the non-kinetic targets are so few. This forces the TAF into dangerous low flying scouting missions for individual units.

One thing we're confident about in the NG is that with all the known and publicly unknown SAM's of the Republic, Turkey would be trying to step on a porcupine with flip flops.

I know they are mobile, but whilst they are operational and tracking, they are vulnerable to HARM attack. There surviveability is very low, unless you plan to not use them at all, and just move them around the countryside. I'm sure I said that 3 times already...

............and you all think that Turkey will walk into a trap just like that.

If Turkey is privy to all the known missiles and is aware of the existence of inknown missiles, what do you think would happen.

!. Sit back and do nothing?

2. Do something about it?What would you do if there was a role reversal?


Carpet bombing from long distance?


You should add wargames into the games thread.

[Get Real!]

Also, the Mistrel Short Range Missile is basically useless against fast attack jets. With a range of only 6km, the only thing these missiles would be able to shoot down would be a Cessna aircraft. It would be an enormous fluke if an F-16 was destroyed by a Mistral. An F-16 could fly over 1,000 Mistrals at 18,000Ft and be 99.9% safe. The only way to counter an F-16 is with another F-16 or M2000 at altitudes greater than 18,000FT should the attacking aircraft fear the Mistral.

As a matter of fact, even the S300, Gecko and Tor are ineffective against air attack. These systems are easy pickings for HARM A2G attack. Once they turn their radar on, then it is bye-bye! Good target practice for the pilots though.

There is no SAM or Air Defense umbrella that is able to defeat a modern air force.

Have you heard off Chaff Flares GatTouri!

Bye-bye GatTouri!...

It's the impotency of your brain you should be worried about.

All modern missiles, including Europe’s top 3 (Exocet/Milan/Mistral) have ECCM to defeat electronic protective measures or “jamming” if you like so quit wasting people’s time with assumptions idiot!

Read that quote again and ask yourself why…

Mistral entered series production in 1989 and is now deployed by 37 armed forces of 25 countries. Over 16,000 missiles have been ordered. In June 2001, the last of 45 ATLAS launchers and 9 MCP with Mistral 2 missiles were delivered to Hungary.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mistral/

The world is stupid for investing in these and you are smart Paphitis?

[EPSILON]

Information from Greek ministry of defence suggest that they are working on a scenario that a Turkish airplane decide to land in one of the Greek Islands.!!!!!!!!
During the last 2 days Turkish planes are flying 350mtrs over Agathonisi .

The only thing which maybe Turks not taking into account is the reaction of local hunters, since Greek Ministry's reaction expected to be a notam to Turkey and then allow the plane to depart!!!

Do you have a copy of this NOTAM?

It would make interesting reading...

An enemy violates sovereign airspace and our response is to send them a NOTAM?? Would a clearance to land follow suit?

Paphitis, i do not have a copy of the NOTAM since insident do not happen yet however do you remember any other way of reaction from our politicians during the last 37 years?Only local hunters will be a real problem to the Turkish plane.

[Paphitis]

Also, the Mistrel Short Range Missile is basically useless against fast attack jets. With a range of only 6km, the only thing these missiles would be able to shoot down would be a Cessna aircraft. It would be an enormous fluke if an F-16 was destroyed by a Mistral. An F-16 could fly over 1,000 Mistrals at 18,000Ft and be 99.9% safe. The only way to counter an F-16 is with another F-16 or M2000 at altitudes greater than 18,000FT should the attacking aircraft fear the Mistral.

As a matter of fact, even the S300, Gecko and Tor are ineffective against air attack. These systems are easy pickings for HARM A2G attack. Once they turn their radar on, then it is bye-bye! Good target practice for the pilots though.

There is no SAM or Air Defense umbrella that is able to defeat a modern air force.

Have you heard off Chaff Flares GatTouri!

Bye-bye GatTouri!...

It's the impotency of your brain you should be worried about.

All modern missiles, including Europe’s top 3 (Exocet/Milan/Mistral) have ECCM to defeat electronic protective measures or “jamming” if you like so quit wasting people’s time with assumptions idiot!

Read that quote again and ask yourself why…

Mistral entered series production in 1989 and is now deployed by 37 armed forces of 25 countries. Over 16,000 missiles have been ordered. In June 2001, the last of 45 ATLAS launchers and 9 MCP with Mistral 2 missiles were delivered to Hungary.

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/mistral/

The world is stupid for investing in these and you are smart Paphitis?

The Minstrel is refferred to as "The Poor Man's Missile System".

The kind that real powers can't be bothered wasting their time with because they are inneffective...