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Have we made any progress on the CF?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Have we made any progress on the CF?

YES
12
48%
NO
13
52%
 
Total votes : 25

Postby Viewpoint » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:02 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Piratis wrote:We have many other minorities in Cyprus and they don't have any problem. The same with every other multi-ethnic country. In no normal country are the citizens divided based on their language, religion or other racist criteria. We are not living in the time of the Ottomans, neither we are South African of Apartheid.

Viewpoint wrote:Belgium, Switzerland, USA, San Marino, ex Serbia Montenegro....go study.

Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote: Belgium, Switzerland, USA, San Marino, ex Serbia Montenegro....go study.


You don't have a clue what the hell it is that you are talking about by trying to compare these countries, (specially the USA :? :? ), with what Piratis is talking about.!


Do they have states or cantons making up a Federation or Confederation, are these non democratic?



:lol: :lol: :lol:

What is this, VP.? Are we in the 1st grade school and you are teaching us our ABC's or Federations and Confederations.? :lol: :lol:

Just how the hell does your above answer to my statement put to you has any relevance to what Piratis was talking about, which you chose on your own free will to give him the answer that you did as in the above quotes. You do not need to shower us with your brilliance in stating the obvious as to what is the political status on these countries. Piratis never asked you to define these countries the way you did, and neither did I, so why do you feel like you need to put something out there just because you trapped yourself by trying to be too cleaver, and instead you gave an answer that has ZERO relevance to what Piratis was talking about. Now either answer the statement Piratis put to you or just kindly leave this subject alone without embarrassing yourself anymore tonight with unrelated answers.!

Sometimes the least you say, the better.! :idea: :idea: :idea:


Youd love to shut me up but you cant...

As I stated these countries have cantons or states in which one can CHOOSE to reside and not be FORCED, thats what we want in a united Cyprus 2 states in which people can choose to live in one or the other but under the administration of the people of that state.

Im sure you can work out the rest as Piratis wants the whole island under GC rule where we will forced to abandon our community rights as in the 1960 agreements and accept minority status where they are give a free hand to discriminate and persecute TCs all in the name of democracy.
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Postby Viewpoint » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:13 pm

Piratis
Really? How are you going to have a Turkish State when the majority of every part of the island is made up by Greek Cypriots? The only way to achieve this is to ethnically cleanse Greek Cypriots and to artificially and forcefully create a TC majority in some part of the island. Isn't this what you support?


Do you know the difference between soverignty and private ownership? those GCs who wish to reside in the TC state will be welcome.

You can avoid answering but you can't hide the truth


Why should I waste my time answering comments I do not take seriously? This would mean stooping to your level of ignorance and blinkered mindset.

Says the "Viewpoint Dictionary"?


Now whos avoiding answering a valid point...minorities are at great risk if the majority is hell bent on making the feel they are a minority by discriminating and persecuting these people.

You go study. In none of those countries there is any discrimination of citizens based on their ethnicity, religion or language. And in none of those countries there was an ethnic cleansing in order to create a state that is run by a specific ethnicity.


Do these cantons or states have predominantly people of a certain race, colour, religion, language?

The Cypriot people democratically choose what they wanted for their own island. Who are guilty are those that until then (Turks/ British etc) occupied our island and incorporated it in their empires against the will of the Cypriot people. And the Turks did this again in 1974, something which you are guilty and you have been convicted by UN resolutions as well as ECHR and ECJ rulings.


The "Cypriots" people at the time included the TCs why were they not included as a party to this issue by 2 sides holding a referendum like we did over the AP where the issue is so sensative, you have no right to make decisions on my behalf which will force me to change my country name religion and ethnic origins.

has all the pieces of paper you have gained from the ECHR UN and ECJ brought you the solution you desire...the answer is NO, they never will.
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Postby Kikapu » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:30 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Piratis wrote:We have many other minorities in Cyprus and they don't have any problem. The same with every other multi-ethnic country. In no normal country are the citizens divided based on their language, religion or other racist criteria. We are not living in the time of the Ottomans, neither we are South African of Apartheid.

Viewpoint wrote:Belgium, Switzerland, USA, San Marino, ex Serbia Montenegro....go study.

Viewpoint wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote: Belgium, Switzerland, USA, San Marino, ex Serbia Montenegro....go study.


You don't have a clue what the hell it is that you are talking about by trying to compare these countries, (specially the USA :? :? ), with what Piratis is talking about.!


Do they have states or cantons making up a Federation or Confederation, are these non democratic?



:lol: :lol: :lol:

What is this, VP.? Are we in the 1st grade school and you are teaching us our ABC's or Federations and Confederations.? :lol: :lol:

Just how the hell does your above answer to my statement put to you has any relevance to what Piratis was talking about, which you chose on your own free will to give him the answer that you did as in the above quotes. You do not need to shower us with your brilliance in stating the obvious as to what is the political status on these countries. Piratis never asked you to define these countries the way you did, and neither did I, so why do you feel like you need to put something out there just because you trapped yourself by trying to be too cleaver, and instead you gave an answer that has ZERO relevance to what Piratis was talking about. Now either answer the statement Piratis put to you or just kindly leave this subject alone without embarrassing yourself anymore tonight with unrelated answers.!

Sometimes the least you say, the better.! :idea: :idea: :idea:


Viewpoint wrote:Youd love to shut me up but you cant...


No, I don't want to shut you up, just give us a direct answer and not irrelevant stuff.!

Viewpoint wrote:As I stated these countries have cantons or states in which one can CHOOSE to reside and not be FORCED, thats what we want in a united Cyprus 2 states in which people can choose to live in one or the other but under the administration of the people of that state.


Well, I gave you a perfect example of a BBF Plan relating to the States mostly, and you rejected it, so how come.? That plan also allowed the state to be run by ALL those who would live in that state.

Viewpoint wrote:Im sure you can work out the rest as Piratis wants the whole island under GC rule where we will forced to abandon our community rights as in the 1960 agreements and accept minority status where they are give a free hand to discriminate and persecute TCs all in the name of democracy.


By agreeing to a BBF by Denktash and Makarios, it gives the opportunity for the 1960 constitution to be opened up and to have any parts either side do not want, to be discarded, which brings us to the difficulties in today's negotiations. You cannot have a BBF and still maintain the old constitution intact, so needless to say, don't expect everything that was given to the TC's in 1960 to be there in the next constitution. You get something, you lose something, which will be the same for everyone.!
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:38 am

Kikapu
No, I don't want to shut you up, just give us a direct answer and not irrelevant stuff.!


They are crystal clear but only not what you want so that why you have difficulties comprehending that you can also be wrong and other posters opinions can be right.

Well, I gave you a perfect example of a BBF Plan relating to the States mostly, and you rejected it, so how come.? That plan also allowed the state to be run by ALL those who would live in that state.


You know full well the dangers you wish to lead us into with your plan so please dont ask TCs to take you seriously, when you state "perfect" plan perfect for whom? the GCs.

By agreeing to a BBF by Denktash and Makarios, it gives the opportunity for the 1960 constitution to be opened up and to have any parts either side do not want, to be discarded, which brings us to the difficulties in today's negotiations. You cannot have a BBF and still maintain the old constitution intact, so needless to say, don't expect everything that was given to the TC's in 1960 to be there in the next constitution. You get something, you lose something, which will be the same for everyone.!


I agree things from the 1960 agreements can be disregarded but new elements can also be intorduced.
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Postby Piratis » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:12 am

Viewpoint wrote:Piratis
Really? How are you going to have a Turkish State when the majority of every part of the island is made up by Greek Cypriots? The only way to achieve this is to ethnically cleanse Greek Cypriots and to artificially and forcefully create a TC majority in some part of the island. Isn't this what you support?


Do you know the difference between soverignty and private ownership? those GCs who wish to reside in the TC state will be welcome.


And why should the TCs have sovereignty over a part of Cyprus when the majority of that part are Greek Cypriots, and when Greek Cypriots have 10 times longer history on it?

You can avoid answering but you can't hide the truth


Why should I waste my time answering comments I do not take seriously? This would mean stooping to your level of ignorance and blinkered mindset.


You don't even come close to my level of knowledge. You avoid answering because you have no ability to counter what I say. (and when you try you just make a fool of yourself)

Says the "Viewpoint Dictionary"?


Now whos avoiding answering a valid point...minorities are at great risk if the majority is hell bent on making the feel they are a minority by discriminating and persecuting these people.


An ethnic minority is simply "a group of people who have a different ethnicity, religion, language or culture to that of the majority of people in the place where they live". This is the correct definition. Better study a bit before you come with your own definitions about terms.

You go study. In none of those countries there is any discrimination of citizens based on their ethnicity, religion or language. And in none of those countries there was an ethnic cleansing in order to create a state that is run by a specific ethnicity.


Do these cantons or states have predominantly people of a certain race, colour, religion, language?


In most federations (USA, Germany, Russia, Austria, Australia, India, Brazil etc) the answer is NO. In the very few cases that this is the case (e.g. Belgium and Switzerland - although Switzerland is actually a Confederation) this is something that happened naturally, not by means of ethnic cleansing!! Can you give me even one example of a Federation which was created by means of ethnic cleansing in order to forcefully segregate people of different ethnicities?

And even in those cases people are still not discriminated based on their language, religion or anything else. Belgian citizens for example are free to move and become full residents of any state they like. There is nothing in the constitution of those countries that states that the majority of a specific state must necessarily always be of a specific ethnic or linguistic group.

What you have done is ethnic cleansing which you are now trying to maintain by imposing some "solution" that would violate our human rights and give to you the ownership of a territory that belongs by 80% to us.

The Cypriot people democratically choose what they wanted for their own island. Who are guilty are those that until then (Turks/ British etc) occupied our island and incorporated it in their empires against the will of the Cypriot people. And the Turks did this again in 1974, something which you are guilty and you have been convicted by UN resolutions as well as ECHR and ECJ rulings.


The "Cypriots" people at the time included the TCs why were they not included as a party to this issue by 2 sides holding a referendum like we did over the AP where the issue is so sensative, you have no right to make decisions on my behalf which will force me to change my country name religion and ethnic origins.

The Cypriot people (something which you are obviously not part of, since you put it within quotes) are one people and not any "sides", and they can decide in a democratic way - one person one vote, what they want for their own island. Beyond that nobody would force any citizen to change his religion or ethnic origins or give up any of his human rights.

The "sides" were created when you collaborated with foreign Imperialists and attacked us. And your "side" now has very little to do with the Cypriot people since it is made up by a majority of Turkish Settlers. It is just an extension of Turkey in Cyprus, and very little beyond that.

has all the pieces of paper you have gained from the ECHR UN and ECJ brought you the solution you desire...the answer is NO, they never will.


The papers will not bring a solution, but they are very important. Those papers mean that you will never be able to legalize partition, and when the day comes that we will be able to liberate our island from the foreign invaders we will do so in a 100% legal way and nobody would be able to complain about it.
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Postby repulsewarrior » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:46 pm

i think it is small minded to expect that people do not change. only 40 years ago "niggers" swung from trees. the same malice existed anywhere in the occidental world, yet today this is unthinkable, and America has a black President...

Cyprus is an island. it is neither "Greek" or "Turkish". as this island's dwellers, we are Cypriots. And as Humans we cannot identify ourselves as anything else if as people we wish to demonstrate our commitment to the Principals which improve this condition.
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:03 pm

Piratis wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Piratis
Really? How are you going to have a Turkish State when the majority of every part of the island is made up by Greek Cypriots? The only way to achieve this is to ethnically cleanse Greek Cypriots and to artificially and forcefully create a TC majority in some part of the island. Isn't this what you support?


Do you know the difference between soverignty and private ownership? those GCs who wish to reside in the TC state will be welcome.


And why should the TCs have sovereignty over a part of Cyprus when the majority of that part are Greek Cypriots, and when Greek Cypriots have 10 times longer history on it?

You can avoid answering but you can't hide the truth


Why should I waste my time answering comments I do not take seriously? This would mean stooping to your level of ignorance and blinkered mindset.


You don't even come close to my level of knowledge. You avoid answering because you have no ability to counter what I say. (and when you try you just make a fool of yourself)

Says the "Viewpoint Dictionary"?


Now whos avoiding answering a valid point...minorities are at great risk if the majority is hell bent on making the feel they are a minority by discriminating and persecuting these people.


An ethnic minority is simply "a group of people who have a different ethnicity, religion, language or culture to that of the majority of people in the place where they live". This is the correct definition. Better study a bit before you come with your own definitions about terms.

You go study. In none of those countries there is any discrimination of citizens based on their ethnicity, religion or language. And in none of those countries there was an ethnic cleansing in order to create a state that is run by a specific ethnicity.


Do these cantons or states have predominantly people of a certain race, colour, religion, language?


In most federations (USA, Germany, Russia, Austria, Australia, India, Brazil etc) the answer is NO. In the very few cases that this is the case (e.g. Belgium and Switzerland - although Switzerland is actually a Confederation) this is something that happened naturally, not by means of ethnic cleansing!! Can you give me even one example of a Federation which was created by means of ethnic cleansing in order to forcefully segregate people of different ethnicities?

And even in those cases people are still not discriminated based on their language, religion or anything else. Belgian citizens for example are free to move and become full residents of any state they like. There is nothing in the constitution of those countries that states that the majority of a specific state must necessarily always be of a specific ethnic or linguistic group.

What you have done is ethnic cleansing which you are now trying to maintain by imposing some "solution" that would violate our human rights and give to you the ownership of a territory that belongs by 80% to us.

The Cypriot people democratically choose what they wanted for their own island. Who are guilty are those that until then (Turks/ British etc) occupied our island and incorporated it in their empires against the will of the Cypriot people. And the Turks did this again in 1974, something which you are guilty and you have been convicted by UN resolutions as well as ECHR and ECJ rulings.


The "Cypriots" people at the time included the TCs why were they not included as a party to this issue by 2 sides holding a referendum like we did over the AP where the issue is so sensative, you have no right to make decisions on my behalf which will force me to change my country name religion and ethnic origins.

The Cypriot people (something which you are obviously not part of, since you put it within quotes) are one people and not any "sides", and they can decide in a democratic way - one person one vote, what they want for their own island. Beyond that nobody would force any citizen to change his religion or ethnic origins or give up any of his human rights.

The "sides" were created when you collaborated with foreign Imperialists and attacked us. And your "side" now has very little to do with the Cypriot people since it is made up by a majority of Turkish Settlers. It is just an extension of Turkey in Cyprus, and very little beyond that.

has all the pieces of paper you have gained from the ECHR UN and ECJ brought you the solution you desire...the answer is NO, they never will.


The papers will not bring a solution, but they are very important. Those papers mean that you will never be able to legalize partition, and when the day comes that we will be able to liberate our island from the foreign invaders we will do so in a 100% legal way and nobody would be able to complain about it.


Its obvious from your comments that your dangerous mindset means that if you had your way we would be doomed to becoming a minority in a racist GC state, this is totally unacceptable to TCs and we would rather stay as we are indefinately faced with a 1000 times more difficulties than capitulate to your demands. Either you learn to accept sharing with us under a 2 state federation with political equality or you can wait for things to "swing your way" we have no problem with that.
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:07 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:i think it is small minded to expect that people do not change. only 40 years ago "niggers" swung from trees. the same malice existed anywhere in the occidental world, yet today this is unthinkable, and America has a black President...

Cyprus is an island. it is neither "Greek" or "Turkish". as this island's dwellers, we are Cypriots. And as Humans we cannot identify ourselves as anything else if as people we wish to demonstrate our commitment to the Principals which improve this condition.


repulse I personally do not think for one minute GCs have changed the packaging maybe different but the inside is still the same, their sole aim is a GC state with TCs as a minority...we will never accept this in a million years.
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Postby YFred » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:12 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:i think it is small minded to expect that people do not change. only 40 years ago "niggers" swung from trees. the same malice existed anywhere in the occidental world, yet today this is unthinkable, and America has a black President...

Cyprus is an island. it is neither "Greek" or "Turkish". as this island's dwellers, we are Cypriots. And as Humans we cannot identify ourselves as anything else if as people we wish to demonstrate our commitment to the Principals which improve this condition.


repulse I personally do not think for one minute GCs have changed the packaging maybe different but the inside is still the same, their sole aim is a GC state with TCs as a minority...we will never accept this in a million years.

VP come on! you can't paint all GCs with the same brush, there are some very decent ones amongst them. The question is what percentage? And that will be obvious after the next vote.
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:21 pm

YFred wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:i think it is small minded to expect that people do not change. only 40 years ago "niggers" swung from trees. the same malice existed anywhere in the occidental world, yet today this is unthinkable, and America has a black President...

Cyprus is an island. it is neither "Greek" or "Turkish". as this island's dwellers, we are Cypriots. And as Humans we cannot identify ourselves as anything else if as people we wish to demonstrate our commitment to the Principals which improve this condition.


repulse I personally do not think for one minute GCs have changed the packaging maybe different but the inside is still the same, their sole aim is a GC state with TCs as a minority...we will never accept this in a million years.

VP come on! you can't paint all GCs with the same brush, there are some very decent ones amongst them. The question is what percentage? And that will be obvious after the next vote.


I think Oracle Piratis Sotos Kikapu and Kifeas represent the majority of GCs, so we do not stand a chance in hell.
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