Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

I haven’t voted because the word “progress” is relative. One thing that’s for sure is that there was a time on the CF when we had to wade through all the intricate technicalities of the CyProb to clear up the myriads of misconceptions, something we are no longer doing today. These days we’re mostly discussing the road to a solution and life after it. Is that progress? I don’t know…

Other than that, Kikapu pretty much sums it up for me too…

Once everyone accepts, that a solution can only be based on True Democracy, Human Rights and International laws, the rest of our problems are then just details.

myriads of misconceptions really? so you think you have cleansed yourself, they are there festering stronger than ever and resurface at every opportunity. Stop hiding behind your finger if you feel this forum has helped you towards understanding the other side and finding a solution then vots YES if not then vote NO.

You seem to have misunderstood me. There was a time when we were arguing all day about OTHER technical issues such as...

Is the “TRNC” a pseudo state?
Is direct trade with the “TRNC” legal?
Is the Ercan airport legal?
Is the importation of Turkish settlers to the “TRNC” legal?

Etc, but I think we’ve come to an understanding on all these technical matters and have moved on from them. No?

Does it really matter what we think, reality stares us in the face.

[Kikapu]

Once everyone accepts, that a solution can only be based on True Democracy, Human Rights and International laws, the rest of our problems are then just details. The problem is, some do not accept this concept for a unified Cyprus, but would rather have the opposite to these principles. What these people are refusing to see is, now that Cyprus is in the EU and this is the 21st century, there can be no other way but follow the above principles. The EU will not have it any other way which we are part of, even if some Cypriots are willing to forgo the above principles. Therefore, the choice has already been made for us since 2004, whether we want it or not, that a unified Cyprus can only have a True Democracy, Human Rights and International laws. If you cannot trust these basic principles which is the cornerstone of the western society in which we live in, then how can you trust the opposite.? Before any other problems can be addressed, and there are many, first and foremost, the above basic principles need to be accepted by all if we are to move forward with any unification in Cyprus.

I have just came across this report on the "Cyprus Mail" which supports my above post.

"THE EUROPEAN Commission is prepared to accommodate a solution to the Cyprus problem as long as it’s based on the principles on which the EU was founded, said Commission Vice-President responsible for Enterprise and Industry Gunter Verheugen yesterday."

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=46236

So, even Gunter Verheugen, the supporter of the Annan Plan is saying the above. Times have changed since 2004, and so must we.!

Stating the obvious is sooooo you Kikapu. Anyway, if it makes you feel good and gets you brownie points from your buddies then I guess that's job done for you. I know your agenda, so from me you get "nil points"

Here is a man who chooses to live in a Democratic, Human Rights and International laws observing country, UK, but then turns his nose up to it when it comes to Cyprus just so he does not have be living with too many GC's in his neighbourhood in the north.

So what exactly was your point with your above post anyway MR-from-NG.??

If that is a tough question for you to answer, then tell us if you have found your stolen pot yet from your house in the "trnc".?

[DT.]

Do you think we have made any progess in our debates to agreeing unification and living together?

There have been times way back in the past where a framework was agreed between a few of us. Once we got down to personal inhibitions/fears/wants then it was much easier. It's just tricky to let go sometimes of the things you feel you SHOULD be demanding.

Other than that, what my other 2 co-democrats stated before stands for me as well.

Democracy with respect for human rights and you can never go wrong.

BTW VP, don't you think you're overdoing the conclusive referendums these days? Has some sort of deadline passed where a study needs to be handed in for this project to someone?

Can democracy be used to the detrement of a minority if desired by the majority? Please answer honestly.

A free democracy that has full respect of human rights can never act to the detriment of anyone of its citizens.

[Viewpoint]

Once everyone accepts, that a solution can only be based on True Democracy, Human Rights and International laws, the rest of our problems are then just details. The problem is, some do not accept this concept for a unified Cyprus, but would rather have the opposite to these principles. What these people are refusing to see is, now that Cyprus is in the EU and this is the 21st century, there can be no other way but follow the above principles. The EU will not have it any other way which we are part of, even if some Cypriots are willing to forgo the above principles. Therefore, the choice has already been made for us since 2004, whether we want it or not, that a unified Cyprus can only have a True Democracy, Human Rights and International laws. If you cannot trust these basic principles which is the cornerstone of the western society in which we live in, then how can you trust the opposite.? Before any other problems can be addressed, and there are many, first and foremost, the above basic principles need to be accepted by all if we are to move forward with any unification in Cyprus.

I have just came across this report on the "Cyprus Mail" which supports my above post.

"THE EUROPEAN Commission is prepared to accommodate a solution to the Cyprus problem as long as it’s based on the principles on which the EU was founded, said Commission Vice-President responsible for Enterprise and Industry Gunter Verheugen yesterday."

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=46236

So, even Gunter Verheugen, the supporter of the Annan Plan is saying the above. Times have changed since 2004, and so must we.!

Stating the obvious is sooooo you Kikapu. Anyway, if it makes you feel good and gets you brownie points from your buddies then I guess that's job done for you. I know your agenda, so from me you get "nil points"

Here is a man who chooses to live in a Democratic, Human Rights and International laws observing country, UK, but then turns his nose up to it when it comes to Cyprus just so he does not have be living with too many GC's in his neighbourhood in the north.

So what exactly was your point with your above post anyway MR-from-NG.??

If that is a tough question for you to answer, then tell us if you have found your stolen pot yet from your house in the "trnc".?

Do the GCs solely administer "True Democracy and Human rights" in the UK? The knife might be sharp but the doctor is in control.

[Piratis]

Do you think we have made any progess in our debates to agreeing unification and living together?

What do you think that this shows?

That TCs and the rest of Cypriots are not compatible with each other? That TCs are very different kind of people and that they can not live together in peace with the rest of Cypriots, or agree with them in anything?

Lets say you are right, and the Turks that were brought to our island a few centuries ago were never really integrated with the native Cypriot population, that they remain totally different, so different that it is impossible to agree on anything and live together peacefully with the rest of the population of Cyprus. Then what?

What is the solution to this? Ethnic cleansing? If that is the "solution" you suggest, then be sure we will never accept an ethnic cleansing against us to be a "solution". We will fight this war for as long as it takes, until we will win it. And when (not if) we will win, if you still insist that you can not live with the rest of Cypriots, and you still insist that ethnic cleansing can be a "solution" then you will be send back to where you came from (or maybe you will change you mind about what is an acceptable solution when the tables are turned?)

If you think that partition and ethnically cleansing 100s of thousands of Cypriots from the land their ancestors have been inhabiting for 1000s of years can be a "solution" then obviously a much better "solution" is to instead ethnically cleanse the TCs who are much less and who do not have as deep roots in Cyprus as we do.

There is really no point in your efforts to prove that TCs can not agree or live together with the rest of Cypriots. If that is what you think then just stop discussing anything here. And if this is what your leaders think as well, then they should just stop negotiating. But erase from your mind the possibility that we will ever accept our ethnic cleansing to be a "solution".

[Kikapu]

Once everyone accepts, that a solution can only be based on True Democracy, Human Rights and International laws, the rest of our problems are then just details. The problem is, some do not accept this concept for a unified Cyprus, but would rather have the opposite to these principles. What these people are refusing to see is, now that Cyprus is in the EU and this is the 21st century, there can be no other way but follow the above principles. The EU will not have it any other way which we are part of, even if some Cypriots are willing to forgo the above principles. Therefore, the choice has already been made for us since 2004, whether we want it or not, that a unified Cyprus can only have a True Democracy, Human Rights and International laws. If you cannot trust these basic principles which is the cornerstone of the western society in which we live in, then how can you trust the opposite.? Before any other problems can be addressed, and there are many, first and foremost, the above basic principles need to be accepted by all if we are to move forward with any unification in Cyprus.

I have just came across this report on the "Cyprus Mail" which supports my above post.

"THE EUROPEAN Commission is prepared to accommodate a solution to the Cyprus problem as long as it’s based on the principles on which the EU was founded, said Commission Vice-President responsible for Enterprise and Industry Gunter Verheugen yesterday."

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=46236

So, even Gunter Verheugen, the supporter of the Annan Plan is saying the above. Times have changed since 2004, and so must we.!

Stating the obvious is sooooo you Kikapu. Anyway, if it makes you feel good and gets you brownie points from your buddies then I guess that's job done for you. I know your agenda, so from me you get "nil points"

Here is a man who chooses to live in a Democratic, Human Rights and International laws observing country, UK, but then turns his nose up to it when it comes to Cyprus just so he does not have be living with too many GC's in his neighbourhood in the north.

So what exactly was your point with your above post anyway MR-from-NG.??

If that is a tough question for you to answer, then tell us if you have found your stolen pot yet from your house in the "trnc".?

Do the GCs solely administer "True Democracy and Human rights" in the UK? The knife might be sharp but the doctor is in control.

I thought you wanted to have a serious discussion, but instead you want to talk about "Jack the Ripper".!

In a Unified Cyprus, it will not only the GC's who would administer Democracy and Human Rights, but all Cypriots will do the administration, including the TC's.

Did you not read my "BBF" plan yet, VP.?

[MR-from-NG]

Once everyone accepts, that a solution can only be based on True Democracy, Human Rights and International laws, the rest of our problems are then just details. The problem is, some do not accept this concept for a unified Cyprus, but would rather have the opposite to these principles. What these people are refusing to see is, now that Cyprus is in the EU and this is the 21st century, there can be no other way but follow the above principles. The EU will not have it any other way which we are part of, even if some Cypriots are willing to forgo the above principles. Therefore, the choice has already been made for us since 2004, whether we want it or not, that a unified Cyprus can only have a True Democracy, Human Rights and International laws. If you cannot trust these basic principles which is the cornerstone of the western society in which we live in, then how can you trust the opposite.? Before any other problems can be addressed, and there are many, first and foremost, the above basic principles need to be accepted by all if we are to move forward with any unification in Cyprus.

I have just came across this report on the "Cyprus Mail" which supports my above post.

"THE EUROPEAN Commission is prepared to accommodate a solution to the Cyprus problem as long as it’s based on the principles on which the EU was founded, said Commission Vice-President responsible for Enterprise and Industry Gunter Verheugen yesterday."

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=46236

So, even Gunter Verheugen, the supporter of the Annan Plan is saying the above. Times have changed since 2004, and so must we.!

Stating the obvious is sooooo you Kikapu. Anyway, if it makes you feel good and gets you brownie points from your buddies then I guess that's job done for you. I know your agenda, so from me you get "nil points"

Here is a man who chooses to live in a Democratic, Human Rights and International laws observing country, UK, but then turns his nose up to it when it comes to Cyprus just so he does not have be living with too many GC's in his neighbourhood in the north.

So what exactly was your point with your above post anyway MR-from-NG.??

If that is a tough question for you to answer, then tell us if you have found your stolen pot yet from your house in the "trnc".?

Kikapu, you are a self absorbed, self indulgent attention seeking sad individual. My point is so simple, now you tell me who in their right fucking mind wouldn't want a solution based on democratic values, human rights and international laws? Why do you feel you owe it to us to fucking remind us of this?

You think you have values and high morals while the rest of us are just crooks and want nothing but the division of our island for personal gain. You need to get a grip on reality but this is not possible because you cant even travel to the north to see how your other half lives and what they really feel about their future. You just t sit in front of your PC and become judge, jury and executioner without knowing the full facts, and that pisses me off.

My pot is gone, stolen by some ratbag. Anyway, I'm sick of Cyprus and sick of the TRNC, if I get a good offer I'll sell up and never set foot on this cursed island ever again. Happy?

[Viewpoint]

Do you think we have made any progess in our debates to agreeing unification and living together?

What do you think that this shows?

That TCs and the rest of Cypriots are not compatible with each other? That TCs are very different kind of people and that they can not live together in peace with the rest of Cypriots, or agree with them in anything?

Lets say you are right, and the Turks that were brought to our island a few centuries ago were never really integrated with the native Cypriot population, that they remain totally different, so different that it is impossible to agree on anything and live together peacefully with the rest of the population of Cyprus. Then what?

What is the solution to this? Ethnic cleansing? If that is the "solution" you suggest, then be sure we will never accept an ethnic cleansing against us to be a "solution". We will fight this war for as long as it takes, until we will win it. And when (not if) we will win, if you still insist that you can not live with the rest of Cypriots, and you still insist that ethnic cleansing can be a "solution" then you will be send back to where you came from (or maybe you will change you mind about what is an acceptable solution when the tables are turned?)

If you think that partition and ethnically cleansing 100s of thousands of Cypriots from the land their ancestors have been inhabiting for 1000s of years can be a "solution" then obviously a much better "solution" is to instead ethnically cleanse the TCs who are much less and who do not have as deep roots in Cyprus as we do.

There is really no point in your efforts to prove that TCs can not agree or live together with the rest of Cypriots. If that is what you think then just stop discussing anything here. And if this is what your leaders think as well, then they should just stop negotiating. But erase from your mind the possibility that we will ever accept our ethnic cleansing to be a "solution".

Piratis do we have just as much right to this island as you? Once you get the answer to this you will understand that you have to share with us. You cannot tell us to go anywhere as we cannot tell you....so get over yourself and deal with whats before you division and the negotiations to find a structure that will address both sides concerns.

All we ask for is security and a say in our own future, what you offer is GC dominance and minority status and then you we do not want to live together.

You can keep your flame burning for your desire for war but dont forget you are placing your people in great danger for the second time, the choice is yours.

[Viewpoint]

Once everyone accepts, that a solution can only be based on True Democracy, Human Rights and International laws, the rest of our problems are then just details. The problem is, some do not accept this concept for a unified Cyprus, but would rather have the opposite to these principles. What these people are refusing to see is, now that Cyprus is in the EU and this is the 21st century, there can be no other way but follow the above principles. The EU will not have it any other way which we are part of, even if some Cypriots are willing to forgo the above principles. Therefore, the choice has already been made for us since 2004, whether we want it or not, that a unified Cyprus can only have a True Democracy, Human Rights and International laws. If you cannot trust these basic principles which is the cornerstone of the western society in which we live in, then how can you trust the opposite.? Before any other problems can be addressed, and there are many, first and foremost, the above basic principles need to be accepted by all if we are to move forward with any unification in Cyprus.

I have just came across this report on the "Cyprus Mail" which supports my above post.

"THE EUROPEAN Commission is prepared to accommodate a solution to the Cyprus problem as long as it’s based on the principles on which the EU was founded, said Commission Vice-President responsible for Enterprise and Industry Gunter Verheugen yesterday."

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=46236

So, even Gunter Verheugen, the supporter of the Annan Plan is saying the above. Times have changed since 2004, and so must we.!

Stating the obvious is sooooo you Kikapu. Anyway, if it makes you feel good and gets you brownie points from your buddies then I guess that's job done for you. I know your agenda, so from me you get "nil points"

Here is a man who chooses to live in a Democratic, Human Rights and International laws observing country, UK, but then turns his nose up to it when it comes to Cyprus just so he does not have be living with too many GC's in his neighbourhood in the north.

So what exactly was your point with your above post anyway MR-from-NG.??

If that is a tough question for you to answer, then tell us if you have found your stolen pot yet from your house in the "trnc".?

Do the GCs solely administer "True Democracy and Human rights" in the UK? The knife might be sharp but the doctor is in control.

I thought you wanted to have a serious discussion, but instead you want to talk about "Jack the Ripper".!

In a Unified Cyprus, it will not only the GC's who would administer Democracy and Human Rights, but all Cypriots will do the administration, including the TC's.

Did you not read my "BBF" plan yet, VP.?

How will you guarantee that?

[Oracle]

Everybody has made progress except VP ... whose sole aim was to sow discord.

I vote he gets chucked off the Island, along with his entourage of fascist, racist Turks ... and the rest of us can make merry!