Cyprus-Forum.com

[Dr J]

if we see fit for GCs to have their own state then why dont GCs see fit for TCs to have theirs? tells you more about the Cyprus problem than pages upon pages of explanation.

Apart from lots of other reasons, the main one is that the land you want as a state doesnt belong to you dumb-dumb.

[Viewpoint]

if we see fit for GCs to have their own state then why dont GCs see fit for TCs to have theirs? tells you more about the Cyprus problem than pages upon pages of explanation.

Apart from lots of other reasons, the main one is that the land you want as a state doesnt belong to you dumb-dumb.

Who does it beong to? you are confusing private ownership with state ownership. (Do you want me to insult you as well? if you do then continue with your belittling comments and I will return with much stronger insults.)

[Dr J]

So dumb-dumb, your going to have a Turkish Cypriot state with mostly Greek Cypriot land ownership / inhabitants??

[Icarus]

Viewpoint wrote:

"You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement and without our backing you have no deal...so you should review your attitude as we to not only the GCs have to be persuaded to back a new plan and with the omission of 2 states you will not get the TC backing without which you are back to sqaure one. You belittle and underestimate the TCs but you did the same in 1963 to 1974 and look what happened there."

VP, let’s not try to fool each other, more so your own selves! It is well understood that any solution Talat will be allowed by Turkey and will also be able to reach with Christofias, will go down on you, regardless of whether the majority of you will or will not like it! It will be forced down on you by Turkey, no matter what, for it is Turkey's interests that are and will be at stake. See what happened with Eroglou grey wolf oglan, when he visited Erdogan in Turkey the other day. He told him to shut up, behave and obey, and this is precisely what Turkey will also tell you (TC community) should it realize that you may turn down a deal that Turkey has approved.

You have no voice, you have no independence and you have no free will! You are just a creation of Turkey, and as Turkey had built you, Turkey is able to demolish you within a second of a minute. Your only chance to gain a relative voice and a relative free will is only if a solution in Cyprus will be achieved, and your community returns back to the EU member Republic of Cyprus. And no, there can never be a solution on the basis of a virgin-birth and two founding states! It will only be a solution based on the evolution of the RoC, from a unitary bi-communal state into a federative bi-zonal and bi-communal state. Whether you like it or not, this is the only single international reality, and the only one the whole of the international community understands and accepts. Stop wasting your time and energy on unfeasible, meaningless and diluted ideas.

I will need to concur with the above and also state that many things are starting to change. Since the TCs are a minority within their bogus "TRNC", they will not be the one's making any decision. Turkey holds the reigns firmly within her hands and as she closes more EU chapters in the future, there will be more and more incentive for her to reform and also solve the Cyprus Problem in accordance with what is already being discussed - A BBF RoC with one citizenship, one sovereignty and one international persona and not a virgin birth concept dished out to the Turkish Media in order to appease Turkey's rampant nationalists.

I also would like to add that Turkey will soon be pressured to make many concessions in order to become an EU member state. It is not just Turkey's interests at stake here. The interests of a much larger and more powerful superpower are also at stake, and so the pressure will be enormous.

This assume that France, Germany, Austria or others don't veto Turkish membership...

I seriously doubt that France, Austria and Germany will have much say in the matter.

As a matter of fact, these countries are predominately objecting to EU accession due to the potential mass migration from Turkey to other more affluent nations such as their own. This will be circumvented with restrictions until Turkey eventually improves its economic output.

[AWE]

Viewpoint wrote:

"You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement and without our backing you have no deal...so you should review your attitude as we to not only the GCs have to be persuaded to back a new plan and with the omission of 2 states you will not get the TC backing without which you are back to sqaure one. You belittle and underestimate the TCs but you did the same in 1963 to 1974 and look what happened there."

VP, let’s not try to fool each other, more so your own selves! It is well understood that any solution Talat will be allowed by Turkey and will also be able to reach with Christofias, will go down on you, regardless of whether the majority of you will or will not like it! It will be forced down on you by Turkey, no matter what, for it is Turkey's interests that are and will be at stake. See what happened with Eroglou grey wolf oglan, when he visited Erdogan in Turkey the other day. He told him to shut up, behave and obey, and this is precisely what Turkey will also tell you (TC community) should it realize that you may turn down a deal that Turkey has approved.

You have no voice, you have no independence and you have no free will! You are just a creation of Turkey, and as Turkey had built you, Turkey is able to demolish you within a second of a minute. Your only chance to gain a relative voice and a relative free will is only if a solution in Cyprus will be achieved, and your community returns back to the EU member Republic of Cyprus. And no, there can never be a solution on the basis of a virgin-birth and two founding states! It will only be a solution based on the evolution of the RoC, from a unitary bi-communal state into a federative bi-zonal and bi-communal state. Whether you like it or not, this is the only single international reality, and the only one the whole of the international community understands and accepts. Stop wasting your time and energy on unfeasible, meaningless and diluted ideas.

I will need to concur with the above and also state that many things are starting to change. Since the TCs are a minority within their bogus "TRNC", they will not be the one's making any decision. Turkey holds the reigns firmly within her hands and as she closes more EU chapters in the future, there will be more and more incentive for her to reform and also solve the Cyprus Problem in accordance with what is already being discussed - A BBF RoC with one citizenship, one sovereignty and one international persona and not a virgin birth concept dished out to the Turkish Media in order to appease Turkey's rampant nationalists.

I also would like to add that Turkey will soon be pressured to make many concessions in order to become an EU member state. It is not just Turkey's interests at stake here. The interests of a much larger and more powerful superpower are also at stake, and so the pressure will be enormous.

This assume that France, Germany, Austria or others don't veto Turkish membership...

France has already declared NO to Turkey membership. Lega in Italy have also said NO GRAZIE !!!

The I think the old school report comes to mind "must try harder" this being directed at the RoC gov to try and convince other EU govs to let Turkey in when she is ready.

[Icarus]

Viewpoint wrote:

"You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement and without our backing you have no deal...so you should review your attitude as we to not only the GCs have to be persuaded to back a new plan and with the omission of 2 states you will not get the TC backing without which you are back to sqaure one. You belittle and underestimate the TCs but you did the same in 1963 to 1974 and look what happened there."

VP, let’s not try to fool each other, more so your own selves! It is well understood that any solution Talat will be allowed by Turkey and will also be able to reach with Christofias, will go down on you, regardless of whether the majority of you will or will not like it! It will be forced down on you by Turkey, no matter what, for it is Turkey's interests that are and will be at stake. See what happened with Eroglou grey wolf oglan, when he visited Erdogan in Turkey the other day. He told him to shut up, behave and obey, and this is precisely what Turkey will also tell you (TC community) should it realize that you may turn down a deal that Turkey has approved.

You have no voice, you have no independence and you have no free will! You are just a creation of Turkey, and as Turkey had built you, Turkey is able to demolish you within a second of a minute. Your only chance to gain a relative voice and a relative free will is only if a solution in Cyprus will be achieved, and your community returns back to the EU member Republic of Cyprus. And no, there can never be a solution on the basis of a virgin-birth and two founding states! It will only be a solution based on the evolution of the RoC, from a unitary bi-communal state into a federative bi-zonal and bi-communal state. Whether you like it or not, this is the only single international reality, and the only one the whole of the international community understands and accepts. Stop wasting your time and energy on unfeasible, meaningless and diluted ideas.

I will need to concur with the above and also state that many things are starting to change. Since the TCs are a minority within their bogus "TRNC", they will not be the one's making any decision. Turkey holds the reigns firmly within her hands, and as she closes more EU chapters in the future, there will be more and more incentive for her to reform and also solve the Cyprus Problem in accordance with what is already being discussed - A BBF RoC with one citizenship, one sovereignty and one international persona and not a virgin birth concept dished out to the Turkish Media in order to appease Turkey's rampant nationalists.

How many chapters has Turkey actually closed? how many ports has she opened? you are only deluding yourselves the leverage you sold your souls for no longer works.

Don't be so shortsighted!

Turkey has closed one chapter and is about to close another.

The December Progress assessment will be quite damning of Turkey, and things should gather pace from there. You are deluding yourself to think that the industrialised world will forego Cypriot Oil and Gas resources so that Turkey can still maintain its occupation.

In the end, Turkey will face reality. The TCs already are facing the reality that they have lost their say and influence. If only you were all much wiser and looked beyond the short term cash influx of selling stolen properties.

[Byron]

Viewpoint wrote:

"You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement and without our backing you have no deal...so you should review your attitude as we to not only the GCs have to be persuaded to back a new plan and with the omission of 2 states you will not get the TC backing without which you are back to sqaure one. You belittle and underestimate the TCs but you did the same in 1963 to 1974 and look what happened there."

VP, let’s not try to fool each other, more so your own selves! It is well understood that any solution Talat will be allowed by Turkey and will also be able to reach with Christofias, will go down on you, regardless of whether the majority of you will or will not like it! It will be forced down on you by Turkey, no matter what, for it is Turkey's interests that are and will be at stake. See what happened with Eroglou grey wolf oglan, when he visited Erdogan in Turkey the other day. He told him to shut up, behave and obey, and this is precisely what Turkey will also tell you (TC community) should it realize that you may turn down a deal that Turkey has approved.

You have no voice, you have no independence and you have no free will! You are just a creation of Turkey, and as Turkey had built you, Turkey is able to demolish you within a second of a minute. Your only chance to gain a relative voice and a relative free will is only if a solution in Cyprus will be achieved, and your community returns back to the EU member Republic of Cyprus. And no, there can never be a solution on the basis of a virgin-birth and two founding states! It will only be a solution based on the evolution of the RoC, from a unitary bi-communal state into a federative bi-zonal and bi-communal state. Whether you like it or not, this is the only single international reality, and the only one the whole of the international community understands and accepts. Stop wasting your time and energy on unfeasible, meaningless and diluted ideas.

I will need to concur with the above and also state that many things are starting to change. Since the TCs are a minority within their bogus "TRNC", they will not be the one's making any decision. Turkey holds the reigns firmly within her hands, and as she closes more EU chapters in the future, there will be more and more incentive for her to reform and also solve the Cyprus Problem in accordance with what is already being discussed - A BBF RoC with one citizenship, one sovereignty and one international persona and not a virgin birth concept dished out to the Turkish Media in order to appease Turkey's rampant nationalists.

How many chapters has Turkey actually closed? how many ports has she opened? you are only deluding yourselves the leverage you sold your souls for no longer works.

Don't be so shortsighted!

Turkey has closed one chapter and is about to close another.

The December Progress assessment will be quite damning of Turkey, and things should gather pace from there. You are deluding yourself to think that the industrialised world will forego Cypriot Oil and Gas resources so that Turkey can still maintain its occupation.

In the end, Turkey will face reality. The TCs already are facing the reality that they have lost their say and influence. If only you were all much wiser and looked beyond the short term cash influx of selling stolen properties.

They can close as many chapters as they want, but they will never obtain membership because LA FRANCE A DIT NON !!!

Au Revoir

[Paphitis]

Viewpoint wrote:

"You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement and without our backing you have no deal...so you should review your attitude as we to not only the GCs have to be persuaded to back a new plan and with the omission of 2 states you will not get the TC backing without which you are back to sqaure one. You belittle and underestimate the TCs but you did the same in 1963 to 1974 and look what happened there."

VP, let’s not try to fool each other, more so your own selves! It is well understood that any solution Talat will be allowed by Turkey and will also be able to reach with Christofias, will go down on you, regardless of whether the majority of you will or will not like it! It will be forced down on you by Turkey, no matter what, for it is Turkey's interests that are and will be at stake. See what happened with Eroglou grey wolf oglan, when he visited Erdogan in Turkey the other day. He told him to shut up, behave and obey, and this is precisely what Turkey will also tell you (TC community) should it realize that you may turn down a deal that Turkey has approved.

You have no voice, you have no independence and you have no free will! You are just a creation of Turkey, and as Turkey had built you, Turkey is able to demolish you within a second of a minute. Your only chance to gain a relative voice and a relative free will is only if a solution in Cyprus will be achieved, and your community returns back to the EU member Republic of Cyprus. And no, there can never be a solution on the basis of a virgin-birth and two founding states! It will only be a solution based on the evolution of the RoC, from a unitary bi-communal state into a federative bi-zonal and bi-communal state. Whether you like it or not, this is the only single international reality, and the only one the whole of the international community understands and accepts. Stop wasting your time and energy on unfeasible, meaningless and diluted ideas.

I will need to concur with the above and also state that many things are starting to change. Since the TCs are a minority within their bogus "TRNC", they will not be the one's making any decision. Turkey holds the reigns firmly within her hands, and as she closes more EU chapters in the future, there will be more and more incentive for her to reform and also solve the Cyprus Problem in accordance with what is already being discussed - A BBF RoC with one citizenship, one sovereignty and one international persona and not a virgin birth concept dished out to the Turkish Media in order to appease Turkey's rampant nationalists.

How many chapters has Turkey actually closed? how many ports has she opened? you are only deluding yourselves the leverage you sold your souls for no longer works.

Don't be so shortsighted!

Turkey has closed one chapter and is about to close another.

The December Progress assessment will be quite damning of Turkey, and things should gather pace from there. You are deluding yourself to think that the industrialised world will forego Cypriot Oil and Gas resources so that Turkey can still maintain its occupation.

In the end, Turkey will face reality. The TCs already are facing the reality that they have lost their say and influence. If only you were all much wiser and looked beyond the short term cash influx of selling stolen properties.

They can close as many chapters as they want, but they will never obtain membership because LA FRANCE A DIT NON !!!

Au Revoir

This is the type of response I expect from you.

Sadly, your thesis is lacking and perhaps you may be so kind in explaining as to how and why you have arrived to such a clear cut conclusion. If things appear so clear to you, then why is Oli Rehn pushing for reform and why is Turkey locked in to the accession process. While your at it, please tell us why the Turkish Military is keeping a very low profile on the subject despite being intrinsically opposed to EU accession?

France has about as much say in the matter as the RoC's 6 EU MEPs.

Money talks and bullshit walks, so get with it!

Please offer something more substantial.

[AWE]

Viewpoint wrote:

"You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement and without our backing you have no deal...so you should review your attitude as we to not only the GCs have to be persuaded to back a new plan and with the omission of 2 states you will not get the TC backing without which you are back to sqaure one. You belittle and underestimate the TCs but you did the same in 1963 to 1974 and look what happened there."

VP, let’s not try to fool each other, more so your own selves! It is well understood that any solution Talat will be allowed by Turkey and will also be able to reach with Christofias, will go down on you, regardless of whether the majority of you will or will not like it! It will be forced down on you by Turkey, no matter what, for it is Turkey's interests that are and will be at stake. See what happened with Eroglou grey wolf oglan, when he visited Erdogan in Turkey the other day. He told him to shut up, behave and obey, and this is precisely what Turkey will also tell you (TC community) should it realize that you may turn down a deal that Turkey has approved.

You have no voice, you have no independence and you have no free will! You are just a creation of Turkey, and as Turkey had built you, Turkey is able to demolish you within a second of a minute. Your only chance to gain a relative voice and a relative free will is only if a solution in Cyprus will be achieved, and your community returns back to the EU member Republic of Cyprus. And no, there can never be a solution on the basis of a virgin-birth and two founding states! It will only be a solution based on the evolution of the RoC, from a unitary bi-communal state into a federative bi-zonal and bi-communal state. Whether you like it or not, this is the only single international reality, and the only one the whole of the international community understands and accepts. Stop wasting your time and energy on unfeasible, meaningless and diluted ideas.

I will need to concur with the above and also state that many things are starting to change. Since the TCs are a minority within their bogus "TRNC", they will not be the one's making any decision. Turkey holds the reigns firmly within her hands and as she closes more EU chapters in the future, there will be more and more incentive for her to reform and also solve the Cyprus Problem in accordance with what is already being discussed - A BBF RoC with one citizenship, one sovereignty and one international persona and not a virgin birth concept dished out to the Turkish Media in order to appease Turkey's rampant nationalists.

I also would like to add that Turkey will soon be pressured to make many concessions in order to become an EU member state. It is not just Turkey's interests at stake here. The interests of a much larger and more powerful superpower are also at stake, and so the pressure will be enormous.

This assume that France, Germany, Austria or others don't veto Turkish membership...

I seriously doubt that France, Austria and Germany will have much say in the matter.

As a matter of fact, these countries are predominately objecting to EU accession due to the potential mass migration from Turkey to other more affluent nations such as their own. This will be circumvented with restrictions until Turkey eventually improves its economic output.

I agree they are all looking at vetoing Turkish membership for domestic reasons, but to say that 2 of the most important countries in the EU wont have much say on Turkish membership is somewhat naive, they will have a lot of say and if they veto it the veto is still a veto even of the rest of the EU disagree. I agree that their are likely to be some temporary restrictions at Turkish point of entry to the EU - Spain, Romania and others had/have them - but these will be lifted in time, given that Turkish per capita GDP is above both Bulgaria and Romania I am not convinced that the restrictions following membership will be there anyway especially as it will be 10 years before Turkey is ready to join the anyway.

The question Cyprus needs to answer is do they want Turkey in the EU and a united Cyprus with all the internal migration the entails (Anatolia is a very short flight away) or out and have the island divided but no Turks coming to live in the RoC?

[Icarus]

Viewpoint wrote:

"You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement and without our backing you have no deal...so you should review your attitude as we to not only the GCs have to be persuaded to back a new plan and with the omission of 2 states you will not get the TC backing without which you are back to sqaure one. You belittle and underestimate the TCs but you did the same in 1963 to 1974 and look what happened there."

VP, let’s not try to fool each other, more so your own selves! It is well understood that any solution Talat will be allowed by Turkey and will also be able to reach with Christofias, will go down on you, regardless of whether the majority of you will or will not like it! It will be forced down on you by Turkey, no matter what, for it is Turkey's interests that are and will be at stake. See what happened with Eroglou grey wolf oglan, when he visited Erdogan in Turkey the other day. He told him to shut up, behave and obey, and this is precisely what Turkey will also tell you (TC community) should it realize that you may turn down a deal that Turkey has approved.

You have no voice, you have no independence and you have no free will! You are just a creation of Turkey, and as Turkey had built you, Turkey is able to demolish you within a second of a minute. Your only chance to gain a relative voice and a relative free will is only if a solution in Cyprus will be achieved, and your community returns back to the EU member Republic of Cyprus. And no, there can never be a solution on the basis of a virgin-birth and two founding states! It will only be a solution based on the evolution of the RoC, from a unitary bi-communal state into a federative bi-zonal and bi-communal state. Whether you like it or not, this is the only single international reality, and the only one the whole of the international community understands and accepts. Stop wasting your time and energy on unfeasible, meaningless and diluted ideas.

I will need to concur with the above and also state that many things are starting to change. Since the TCs are a minority within their bogus "TRNC", they will not be the one's making any decision. Turkey holds the reigns firmly within her hands and as she closes more EU chapters in the future, there will be more and more incentive for her to reform and also solve the Cyprus Problem in accordance with what is already being discussed - A BBF RoC with one citizenship, one sovereignty and one international persona and not a virgin birth concept dished out to the Turkish Media in order to appease Turkey's rampant nationalists.

I also would like to add that Turkey will soon be pressured to make many concessions in order to become an EU member state. It is not just Turkey's interests at stake here. The interests of a much larger and more powerful superpower are also at stake, and so the pressure will be enormous.

This assume that France, Germany, Austria or others don't veto Turkish membership...

I seriously doubt that France, Austria and Germany will have much say in the matter.

As a matter of fact, these countries are predominately objecting to EU accession due to the potential mass migration from Turkey to other more affluent nations such as their own. This will be circumvented with restrictions until Turkey eventually improves its economic output.

I agree they are all looking at vetoing Turkish membership for domestic reasons, but to say that 2 of the most important countries in the EU wont have much say on Turkish membership is somewhat naive, they will have a lot of say and if they veto it the veto is still a veto even of the rest of the EU disagree. I agree that their are likely to be some temporary restrictions at Turkish point of entry to the EU - Spain, Romania and others had/have them - but these will be lifted in time, given that Turkish per capita GDP is above both Bulgaria and Romania I am not convinced that the restrictions following membership will be there anyway especially as it will be 10 years before Turkey is ready to join the anyway.

The question Cyprus needs to answer is do they want Turkey in the EU and a united Cyprus with all the internal migration the entails (Anatolia is a very short flight away) or out and have the island divided but no Turks coming to live in the RoC?

We I don't think they intend on vetoing Turkey's EU admission. If anything, I believe they would try and set up The Republic of Cyprus to do this deed for them, for purely their very own domestic issues and nothing else.

These domestic issues we have both referred to, is the fear of mass migration and some of it can also be attributed to racism and fear of the unknown. Allowing an Islamic Country of some 75 million, is bound to cause some controversy in a predominately christian EU. This is to be expected and should be no surprise to anyone.

However, these fears will in all likelihood be circumvented by not allowing Turkish EU citizens the right of migration for a period of let's say 50 years. After that, I doubt whether there will be many Turks wanting to migrate elsewhere, as their affluence will improve and the gap between Turks and the more affluent French and Germans would be diminished.