Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

Why do you hate the word state?

Hi VP

I don't like the idea of a state within a state. A little open to misinterpretation by the mischievous trouble-makers, wouldn't you agree?

Are you uncomfortable with my preference .... "Zone" ?

It is, after all, the one used in the UN Resolutions that refer to bi-ZONAL


Shouldn't we both stick to the agreement - bi-ZONAL?

If you refer back to the declaration by Tay-Brook Zerihoun last September to which the 2 leaders placed their names, it state quite clearly 2 founding states under a BB federal structure.
Shouldnt we stick to this principle and not continually try to deviate?

The talks are bound by the UN parameters. The UN uses the phrase bi-zonal, two ZONES!

Two zones under a single Federation so Zones is expected by the UN, Two Zones it must be and two Zones it will be.

You see VP ... state can so easily become State don't you think? Oh of course, you knew this. What was I thinking?

Zones on the other hand will always be Zones. Mind you there's a lot tone said for titles such as Areas or perhaps Districts? Canton is a nice word I think sometimes but no, The Rest of the World expects Zones and who are we to argue?

Going by the previous UN plans states have always been put forward and was reconfirmed by Tay Brooke at the outset of these talks, anything less will be rejected by the TCs.

To this let me say that very few would care about what is or isn't acceptable to the Majority Illegal Settlers in any "vote" in the Occupied Zone.

It is also worth bearing in mind that, when in a negotiation, it is the final wording that is important. The final agreement is the only thing that matters. The path to that settlement, the fine speeches, the press reports, the stories in the media of progress or otherwise are not terribly relevent and without the wording in a final agreement nothing that transpired or was revealed before means anything.

So it's zones, and if some partitionists see the danger of this small, uncapitalised word as destroying their wet-dreams of the past some fifty years.... All that remains to be said is ... Tough!

You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement and without our backing you have no deal...so you should review your attitude as we to not only the GCs have to be persuaded to back a new plan and with the omission of 2 states you will not get the TC backing without which you are back to sqaure one. You belittle and underestimate the TCs but you did the same in 1963 to 1974 and look what happened there.

The first and last paragraphs of my last post refer. Thank you.

[Oracle]

[You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement ....

You conveniently forget, that is in your delusional dreams and not in reality

[DT.]

Why do you hate the word state?

Hi VP

I don't like the idea of a state within a state. A little open to misinterpretation by the mischievous trouble-makers, wouldn't you agree?

Are you uncomfortable with my preference .... "Zone" ?

It is, after all, the one used in the UN Resolutions that refer to bi-ZONAL


Shouldn't we both stick to the agreement - bi-ZONAL?

If you refer back to the declaration by Tay-Brook Zerihoun last September to which the 2 leaders placed their names, it state quite clearly 2 founding states under a BB federal structure.
Shouldnt we stick to this principle and not continually try to deviate?

Please show us where Zerihoun mentioned 2 FOUNDING states.

[Kifeas]

Viewpoint wrote:

"You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement and without our backing you have no deal...so you should review your attitude as we to not only the GCs have to be persuaded to back a new plan and with the omission of 2 states you will not get the TC backing without which you are back to sqaure one. You belittle and underestimate the TCs but you did the same in 1963 to 1974 and look what happened there."

VP, let’s not try to fool each other, more so your own selves! It is well understood that any solution Talat will be allowed by Turkey and will also be able to reach with Christofias, will go down on you, regardless of whether the majority of you will or will not like it! It will be forced down on you by Turkey, no matter what, for it is Turkey's interests that are and will be at stake. See what happened with Eroglou grey wolf oglan, when he visited Erdogan in Turkey the other day. He told him to shut up, behave and obey, and this is precisely what Turkey will also tell you (TC community) should it realize that you may turn down a deal that Turkey has approved.

You have no voice, you have no independence and you have no free will! You are just a creation of Turkey, and as Turkey had built you, Turkey is able to demolish you within a second of a minute. Your only chance to gain a relative voice and a relative free will is only if a solution in Cyprus will be achieved, and your community returns back to the EU member Republic of Cyprus. And no, there can never be a solution on the basis of a virgin-birth and two founding states! It will only be a solution based on the evolution of the RoC, from a unitary bi-communal state into a federative bi-zonal and bi-communal state. Whether you like it or not, this is the only single international reality, and the only one the whole of the international community understands and accepts. Stop wasting your time and energy on unfeasible, meaningless and diluted ideas.

[Icarus]

Viewpoint wrote:

"You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement and without our backing you have no deal...so you should review your attitude as we to not only the GCs have to be persuaded to back a new plan and with the omission of 2 states you will not get the TC backing without which you are back to sqaure one. You belittle and underestimate the TCs but you did the same in 1963 to 1974 and look what happened there."

VP, let’s not try to fool each other, more so your own selves! It is well understood that any solution Talat will be allowed by Turkey and will also be able to reach with Christofias, will go down on you, regardless of whether the majority of you will or will not like it! It will be forced down on you by Turkey, no matter what, for it is Turkey's interests that are and will be at stake. See what happened with Eroglou grey wolf oglan, when he visited Erdogan in Turkey the other day. He told him to shut up, behave and obey, and this is precisely what Turkey will also tell you (TC community) should it realize that you may turn down a deal that Turkey has approved.

You have no voice, you have no independence and you have no free will! You are just a creation of Turkey, and as Turkey had built you, Turkey is able to demolish you within a second of a minute. Your only chance to gain a relative voice and a relative free will is only if a solution in Cyprus will be achieved, and your community returns back to the EU member Republic of Cyprus. And no, there can never be a solution on the basis of a virgin-birth and two founding states! It will only be a solution based on the evolution of the RoC, from a unitary bi-communal state into a federative bi-zonal and bi-communal state. Whether you like it or not, this is the only single international reality, and the only one the whole of the international community understands and accepts. Stop wasting your time and energy on unfeasible, meaningless and diluted ideas.

I will need to concur with the above and also state that many things are starting to change. Since the TCs are a minority within their bogus "TRNC", they will not be the one's making any decision. Turkey holds the reigns firmly within her hands, and as she closes more EU chapters in the future, there will be more and more incentive for her to reform and also solve the Cyprus Problem in accordance with what is already being discussed - A BBF RoC with one citizenship, one sovereignty and one international persona and not a virgin birth concept dished out to the Turkish Media in order to appease Turkey's rampant nationalists.

[Icarus]

Viewpoint wrote:

"You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement and without our backing you have no deal...so you should review your attitude as we to not only the GCs have to be persuaded to back a new plan and with the omission of 2 states you will not get the TC backing without which you are back to sqaure one. You belittle and underestimate the TCs but you did the same in 1963 to 1974 and look what happened there."

VP, let’s not try to fool each other, more so your own selves! It is well understood that any solution Talat will be allowed by Turkey and will also be able to reach with Christofias, will go down on you, regardless of whether the majority of you will or will not like it! It will be forced down on you by Turkey, no matter what, for it is Turkey's interests that are and will be at stake. See what happened with Eroglou grey wolf oglan, when he visited Erdogan in Turkey the other day. He told him to shut up, behave and obey, and this is precisely what Turkey will also tell you (TC community) should it realize that you may turn down a deal that Turkey has approved.

You have no voice, you have no independence and you have no free will! You are just a creation of Turkey, and as Turkey had built you, Turkey is able to demolish you within a second of a minute. Your only chance to gain a relative voice and a relative free will is only if a solution in Cyprus will be achieved, and your community returns back to the EU member Republic of Cyprus. And no, there can never be a solution on the basis of a virgin-birth and two founding states! It will only be a solution based on the evolution of the RoC, from a unitary bi-communal state into a federative bi-zonal and bi-communal state. Whether you like it or not, this is the only single international reality, and the only one the whole of the international community understands and accepts. Stop wasting your time and energy on unfeasible, meaningless and diluted ideas.

I will need to concur with the above and also state that many things are starting to change. Since the TCs are a minority within their bogus "TRNC", they will not be the one's making any decision. Turkey holds the reigns firmly within her hands and as she closes more EU chapters in the future, there will be more and more incentive for her to reform and also solve the Cyprus Problem in accordance with what is already being discussed - A BBF RoC with one citizenship, one sovereignty and one international persona and not a virgin birth concept dished out to the Turkish Media in order to appease Turkey's rampant nationalists.

I also would like to add that Turkey will soon be pressured to make many concessions in order to become an EU member state. It is not just Turkey's interests at stake here. The interests of a much larger and more powerful superpower are also at stake, and so the pressure will be enormous.

At to that the Oil and Gas potential of the RoC's EEZ and the fiscal international requirement for this valuable resource.

[AWE]

Viewpoint wrote:

"You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement and without our backing you have no deal...so you should review your attitude as we to not only the GCs have to be persuaded to back a new plan and with the omission of 2 states you will not get the TC backing without which you are back to sqaure one. You belittle and underestimate the TCs but you did the same in 1963 to 1974 and look what happened there."

VP, let’s not try to fool each other, more so your own selves! It is well understood that any solution Talat will be allowed by Turkey and will also be able to reach with Christofias, will go down on you, regardless of whether the majority of you will or will not like it! It will be forced down on you by Turkey, no matter what, for it is Turkey's interests that are and will be at stake. See what happened with Eroglou grey wolf oglan, when he visited Erdogan in Turkey the other day. He told him to shut up, behave and obey, and this is precisely what Turkey will also tell you (TC community) should it realize that you may turn down a deal that Turkey has approved.

You have no voice, you have no independence and you have no free will! You are just a creation of Turkey, and as Turkey had built you, Turkey is able to demolish you within a second of a minute. Your only chance to gain a relative voice and a relative free will is only if a solution in Cyprus will be achieved, and your community returns back to the EU member Republic of Cyprus. And no, there can never be a solution on the basis of a virgin-birth and two founding states! It will only be a solution based on the evolution of the RoC, from a unitary bi-communal state into a federative bi-zonal and bi-communal state. Whether you like it or not, this is the only single international reality, and the only one the whole of the international community understands and accepts. Stop wasting your time and energy on unfeasible, meaningless and diluted ideas.

I will need to concur with the above and also state that many things are starting to change. Since the TCs are a minority within their bogus "TRNC", they will not be the one's making any decision. Turkey holds the reigns firmly within her hands and as she closes more EU chapters in the future, there will be more and more incentive for her to reform and also solve the Cyprus Problem in accordance with what is already being discussed - A BBF RoC with one citizenship, one sovereignty and one international persona and not a virgin birth concept dished out to the Turkish Media in order to appease Turkey's rampant nationalists.

I also would like to add that Turkey will soon be pressured to make many concessions in order to become an EU member state. It is not just Turkey's interests at stake here. The interests of a much larger and more powerful superpower are also at stake, and so the pressure will be enormous.

This assume that France, Germany, Austria or others don't veto Turkish membership...

[Byron]

Viewpoint wrote:

"You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement and without our backing you have no deal...so you should review your attitude as we to not only the GCs have to be persuaded to back a new plan and with the omission of 2 states you will not get the TC backing without which you are back to sqaure one. You belittle and underestimate the TCs but you did the same in 1963 to 1974 and look what happened there."

VP, let’s not try to fool each other, more so your own selves! It is well understood that any solution Talat will be allowed by Turkey and will also be able to reach with Christofias, will go down on you, regardless of whether the majority of you will or will not like it! It will be forced down on you by Turkey, no matter what, for it is Turkey's interests that are and will be at stake. See what happened with Eroglou grey wolf oglan, when he visited Erdogan in Turkey the other day. He told him to shut up, behave and obey, and this is precisely what Turkey will also tell you (TC community) should it realize that you may turn down a deal that Turkey has approved.

You have no voice, you have no independence and you have no free will! You are just a creation of Turkey, and as Turkey had built you, Turkey is able to demolish you within a second of a minute. Your only chance to gain a relative voice and a relative free will is only if a solution in Cyprus will be achieved, and your community returns back to the EU member Republic of Cyprus. And no, there can never be a solution on the basis of a virgin-birth and two founding states! It will only be a solution based on the evolution of the RoC, from a unitary bi-communal state into a federative bi-zonal and bi-communal state. Whether you like it or not, this is the only single international reality, and the only one the whole of the international community understands and accepts. Stop wasting your time and energy on unfeasible, meaningless and diluted ideas.

I will need to concur with the above and also state that many things are starting to change. Since the TCs are a minority within their bogus "TRNC", they will not be the one's making any decision. Turkey holds the reigns firmly within her hands and as she closes more EU chapters in the future, there will be more and more incentive for her to reform and also solve the Cyprus Problem in accordance with what is already being discussed - A BBF RoC with one citizenship, one sovereignty and one international persona and not a virgin birth concept dished out to the Turkish Media in order to appease Turkey's rampant nationalists.

I also would like to add that Turkey will soon be pressured to make many concessions in order to become an EU member state. It is not just Turkey's interests at stake here. The interests of a much larger and more powerful superpower are also at stake, and so the pressure will be enormous.

This assume that France, Germany, Austria or others don't veto Turkish membership...

France has already declared NO to Turkey membership. Lega in Italy have also said NO GRAZIE !!!

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint wrote:

"You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement and without our backing you have no deal...so you should review your attitude as we to not only the GCs have to be persuaded to back a new plan and with the omission of 2 states you will not get the TC backing without which you are back to sqaure one. You belittle and underestimate the TCs but you did the same in 1963 to 1974 and look what happened there."

VP, let’s not try to fool each other, more so your own selves! It is well understood that any solution Talat will be allowed by Turkey and will also be able to reach with Christofias, will go down on you, regardless of whether the majority of you will or will not like it! It will be forced down on you by Turkey, no matter what, for it is Turkey's interests that are and will be at stake. See what happened with Eroglou grey wolf oglan, when he visited Erdogan in Turkey the other day. He told him to shut up, behave and obey, and this is precisely what Turkey will also tell you (TC community) should it realize that you may turn down a deal that Turkey has approved.

You have no voice, you have no independence and you have no free will! You are just a creation of Turkey, and as Turkey had built you, Turkey is able to demolish you within a second of a minute. Your only chance to gain a relative voice and a relative free will is only if a solution in Cyprus will be achieved, and your community returns back to the EU member Republic of Cyprus. And no, there can never be a solution on the basis of a virgin-birth and two founding states! It will only be a solution based on the evolution of the RoC, from a unitary bi-communal state into a federative bi-zonal and bi-communal state. Whether you like it or not, this is the only single international reality, and the only one the whole of the international community understands and accepts. Stop wasting your time and energy on unfeasible, meaningless and diluted ideas.

Kifeas with all due respect this is how you wish to see things, the only person you are deluding is yourself, please come into the real world, Turkey has a greal deal of say in the TRNC due to the financial support she provides which in turn stems from our isolation. You are also aware of our very strong ties and relationship with Turkey which I understand makes GCs very uncomfortable, so you will churn out a number of excuses to support your own theories of our doom and gloom which to date none of which have materialized.

We will work with Turkey as we always do to get the best deal for us just as you will with Greece to squeeze everything you can for the GCs. Its is the TC understanding that there will be 2 founding states the TRNC and "RoC" will be scraped for a United Republic of Cyprus, how we get there whether it be evolution or virgin birth the important fact for TCs is that there are 2states under a federal roof. Anything less and the TCs rejecting such a deal will be more and more likely, the only way to counter balance would be to offer something that would be seen by the TCs as fair exchange what that would be I just do not know.

You all seem to forget that by tying to get the GCs to say yes you have to also keep the TCs happy so they to can also say yes, its not just about the GCs when will you all realize that with regards to a new deal we have 50% weight which is needed to seal a new agreement, so just saying oyu have to accept things doesnt make it that way...never underestimate your opponent, if we see fit for GCs to have their own state then why dont GCs see fit for TCs to have theirs? tells you more about the Cyprus problem than pages upon pages of explanation.

[Viewpoint]

Viewpoint wrote:

"You conveniently forget that we represent 50% of the say in any new agreement and without our backing you have no deal...so you should review your attitude as we to not only the GCs have to be persuaded to back a new plan and with the omission of 2 states you will not get the TC backing without which you are back to sqaure one. You belittle and underestimate the TCs but you did the same in 1963 to 1974 and look what happened there."

VP, let’s not try to fool each other, more so your own selves! It is well understood that any solution Talat will be allowed by Turkey and will also be able to reach with Christofias, will go down on you, regardless of whether the majority of you will or will not like it! It will be forced down on you by Turkey, no matter what, for it is Turkey's interests that are and will be at stake. See what happened with Eroglou grey wolf oglan, when he visited Erdogan in Turkey the other day. He told him to shut up, behave and obey, and this is precisely what Turkey will also tell you (TC community) should it realize that you may turn down a deal that Turkey has approved.

You have no voice, you have no independence and you have no free will! You are just a creation of Turkey, and as Turkey had built you, Turkey is able to demolish you within a second of a minute. Your only chance to gain a relative voice and a relative free will is only if a solution in Cyprus will be achieved, and your community returns back to the EU member Republic of Cyprus. And no, there can never be a solution on the basis of a virgin-birth and two founding states! It will only be a solution based on the evolution of the RoC, from a unitary bi-communal state into a federative bi-zonal and bi-communal state. Whether you like it or not, this is the only single international reality, and the only one the whole of the international community understands and accepts. Stop wasting your time and energy on unfeasible, meaningless and diluted ideas.

I will need to concur with the above and also state that many things are starting to change. Since the TCs are a minority within their bogus "TRNC", they will not be the one's making any decision. Turkey holds the reigns firmly within her hands, and as she closes more EU chapters in the future, there will be more and more incentive for her to reform and also solve the Cyprus Problem in accordance with what is already being discussed - A BBF RoC with one citizenship, one sovereignty and one international persona and not a virgin birth concept dished out to the Turkish Media in order to appease Turkey's rampant nationalists.

How many chapters has Turkey actually closed? how many ports has she opened? you are only deluding yourselves the leverage you sold your souls for no longer works.