Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

I am not mixing up anything. When a TC will be over-represented - 5 times more than a GC - he will not accept to get less. He will simply say that this over-representation is: "already gained with international agreements! These rights are our lawful gained rights".

You don't sign a plan that you hope that it would totally be changed.

I will sign (vote) a plan that will sutisfy me. I will not vote for anything just because I hope that something (big or small) will change.

Any transitional period should be clearly stated in the plan itself (with exact dates etc).

[insan]

Unitary stateUnitary state
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

A Unitary state is a state or country that is governed constitutionally as one single unit, with one constitutionally created parliament. While some unitary states are governed as one unit (for example, the Republic of Ireland), others do provide for sub-parliaments or regional assemblies. However unlike federal systems, where regional assemblies have a constitutional existence and a set of constitutional functions which cannot be unilaterally changed by the central parliament, in a unitary state any sub-governmental units created can be created or abolished, and have their powers varied, by the central legislature. A system of government in which sub-government units or regional parliaments have been created but exist purely in statute or ordinary law rather than constitutional law and can be abolished or have their functions broadened or narrowed by decision of the central parliament, is known as devolution.

The United Kingdom is a particularly striking example of a unitary state with a series of parliament-created devolved assemblies, for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, all of which were created in between 1998 and 1999.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_state


I think that a unitary state which provides for sub-parliaments or regional assemblies is more suitable for Cyprus. To adopt this model of unitary state on Cyprus is the job of both communities constitution experts, lawyers and politicians. Don't expect much from me to tell you with full details...

MeteCyp are you aware of that I'm just sharing my opinions here? Of coarse I wish my views, ideas is accepted by majority of Cypriots but I'm not trying to say that they have to accept my ideas.




You wrote:

First, the Annan plan might be back on the table (no matter what CTP, BDH and DP says) and it'll be further negotiated.

Who will bring it back on table? Do matter what they say...


It seems noone will take a new initiative till the end of 2004 ... A new initiative will be taken if a date for EU negotiations haven't been given to Turkey.


Turkis side has caught a big advantage by sayin yes to Annan Plan and I'm sure they will use and abuse this advantage to push GCs to say yes the same plan. Do you think that Turkish side will ever say "Yes GCs are right about the Annan Plan, it must be renegotiated and some ammendments must be made in favour of them"?


It seems you are more imaginery than me... but no problem we are just sharing our views here...


If you want to realize your ideas you should come Cyprus and gather masses to demand renegotiaton of Annan Plan. Or gather American Cypriots over there in US and go demonstrate, demand what you wish... Then there may be a possibility to take attention of Cyprus politicians in direction of your demands...


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[metecyp]

Any transitional period should be clearly stated in the plan itself (with exact dates etc).

I totally agree. No more uncertainity, let's face where we're heading to and write down what is going to happen so nobody can complain in the future.

MeteCyp are you aware of that I'm just sharing my opinions here? Of coarse I wish my views, ideas is accepted by majority of Cypriots but I'm not trying to say that they have to accept my ideas.

I know you're sharing your ideas but what you proposed is not going to be accepted by TCs, and I provided my reasons.

Turkis side has caught a big advantage by sayin yes to Annan Plan and I'm sure they will use and abuse this advantage to push GCs to say yes the same plan. Do you think that Turkish side will ever say "Yes GCs are right about the Annan Plan, it must be renegotiated and some ammendments must be made in favour of them"?

Here's what I think will happen. TCs will get some benefits from EU and US for saying YES to the plan. This already happenned with the Green Line regulations. But these benefits won't be comparable to a united Cyprus proposed by the Annan plan. Sooner or later, TCs will realize that saying "Yes" is not the end of the story, and the plan will be back on the negotiation table. The same applies to the GCs as well. They hope that EU will bring a "democratic" solution, but they will also realize that there are only two alternatives, continuation of the division, or the Annan plan.

As far as who's going to bring the plan on the table, I don't know but what I know is that once such a detailed plan is proposed as a solution, it's not going to disappear the next day.

If you want to realize your ideas you should come Cyprus and gather masses to demand renegotiaton of Annan Plan.

I'm not trying to impose my ideas on anyone. I'm just telling you what I think would happen. Besides, 65% of TCs already agree with the plan, so I don't need to convince them further. I believe that a much higher percentage of GCs would agree with the plan as well with some changes and some guarantees for its implementation.

[mehmet]

It seems to me that in this discussion about unitary V federal that the roots of the discussion go back to the failed 1960 constitution which still functions today in south of Cyprus. I say failed because after 3 years majority community wanted to amend it and because minority reject such propositions a train of events begin with Turkish Cypriots living in enclaves and end with 2 ethnically separate communities living under separate govenrmnets. If anyone wish to say 1960 constitution is a success let them present some reasons for this because I can't see any. Firstly I want to say I don't see any point in going back to this Constitution together until there is a debate about why it failed and a debate about why it wouldn't fail again.

I would like to think that Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots have moved on from the events of 1963 but there are still elements within both communities that will create trouble. We have seen evidence of this in the current political climate. It matters not if they are only a minority because a minority can still create lots of problems. Don't forget that Hitler's party was a minority and the problems that caused for the Jews.

It is also the case that RoC being in EU creates a new situation for Turkish Cypriot's. Having lived in the UK all my life I can see how the institutions of the EU have intervened in the national politics because EU law is sepreme. This has made the EU unpopular in UK but that's another issue. The right wing always wanted the EU to be about trade but the left wing has won the arguement and therefore it is not just potatoes that move freely but people too. Laws which discriminate against sections of the population get thrown out.

Therefore I believe Turkish Cypriot's should begin the process of understanding that these arguements about the constitution of Cyprus can only be considered in relation to laws within the EU. I believe that Turkish Cypriots rights would be protected within EU in situations where the Cypriot state was discriminating against us. This deals with the constituitional issue. What that doesn't deal with is the day to day issues between Greek and Turksih Cypriots. The make up of the security forces (police, army) is an important issue as are laws within Cyprus that outlaw persecution. In the past the Greek state with the support of supporters within Cyprus caused us a lot of problems. The politics of Greece has been much improved since 1974 (I don't believe they will make similar mistakes again) and as it is also within EU they have every reason to remain a democratic state.

The isolation for Turkish Cypriots hasn't just had an economic effect but a political one. The re-opening of the bordrs last April has had a positive effect in allowing both communities to cut through the crap they are taught in the schools and to make up their own minds about each other. Unfortunately some prefer to perpetuate myths. I know myself from talking to older Turkish Cypriot's who visited Cyprus that some Greek Cypriot's wont be satisfied until not a single Turkish Cypriot is left on the island. You see most of my parents generation are still bilingual and haven't forgotten their Greek, so when Greek Cypriot's talk loosely and honestly in public it is only the younger generation who can't understand them.

If we are to move forward to a solution that involves a united island within the EU, we have as a society to take strong action against those who prolong the division and the nationalist myths. On this forum it would be a positive step if Turkish and Greek Cypriots could focus in what is going on within their own states and try to have an effect within their own state to move towards a solution. Actions by nationalists should be coindemned by people from within the communities that are affected. it is not the responsibility of a Turkish Cypriot in the north to point out to a Greek Cypriot in the south when something is offensive to them or the other way around. If we make excuses for the extremists in our own community it doesn't allow for trust to develop.