Cyprus-Forum.com

[umit07]

Or Kikapus "True Democracy and Human Rights" GC double standards prime examples of what you would face in a united Cyprus.

As I've stated (warned) to you before, that unless the TC's come to a settlement with the GC's under True Democracy and respecting Human Rights along with international laws, the island of Cyprus will become a "Greek" island on the long term no matter how many settlers you may import to Cyprus to change the demographics, because they (settlers) will always be considered as illegal aliens and not as citizens and no one can make them become citizens, even the EU, if the GC's will not allow it. To make matters worse, the True TC's are leaving Cyprus with their RoC EU passports and the remaining TC's are being swallowed by the settlers, and since any child born to a TC mother with a settler father, they too (child and father) will not be considered as being a TC. You do the math and see what numbers you will get. The only way the island will not become a pure "Greek" island is by TC's being part of the Cypriot society as equal citizens under True Democracy and Human Rights.! So make jokes about Democracy and Human Rights all you want, because without them, you will not have a settlement, and without a settlement, you will have a "Greek" Cyprus in the long run and a lot of illegal aliens and not too many TC's.!

Actually Kiks a child with a TC mother and a Turkish father is recognized as a "Cypriot Citizen", the case does not apply in the opposite scenario ( ie Turkish mother, TC father), I've got no idea why.

When it comes to the settler issue, I'd say it's the big deal buster for any solution.

Then there's something wrong with this picture Umit07, because our good friend T_C has a TC mother and a Turkish (Turk) father and he is under the impression that he is not seen as a TC in the eyes of the RoC. It was also repeated by others also as I've stated, that a Turkish (Turk)
father and a TC mother, that the child is not a TC.!

I don't know about T_C, but I know of two people in the same situation as above that work in the south. I also had a classmate from high school with a TC mother and Pakistani father who held a Cypriot passport.

[Kikapu]

Or Kikapus "True Democracy and Human Rights" GC double standards prime examples of what you would face in a united Cyprus.

As I've stated (warned) to you before, that unless the TC's come to a settlement with the GC's under True Democracy and respecting Human Rights along with international laws, the island of Cyprus will become a "Greek" island on the long term no matter how many settlers you may import to Cyprus to change the demographics, because they (settlers) will always be considered as illegal aliens and not as citizens and no one can make them become citizens, even the EU, if the GC's will not allow it. To make matters worse, the True TC's are leaving Cyprus with their RoC EU passports and the remaining TC's are being swallowed by the settlers, and since any child born to a TC mother with a settler father, they too (child and father) will not be considered as being a TC. You do the math and see what numbers you will get. The only way the island will not become a pure "Greek" island is by TC's being part of the Cypriot society as equal citizens under True Democracy and Human Rights.! So make jokes about Democracy and Human Rights all you want, because without them, you will not have a settlement, and without a settlement, you will have a "Greek" Cyprus in the long run and a lot of illegal aliens and not too many TC's.!

Actually Kiks a child with a TC mother and a Turkish father is recognized as a "Cypriot Citizen", the case does not apply in the opposite scenario ( ie Turkish mother, TC father), I've got no idea why.

When it comes to the settler issue, I'd say it's the big deal buster for any solution.

Then there's something wrong with this picture Umit07, because our good friend T_C has a TC mother and a Turkish (Turk) father and he is under the impression that he is not seen as a TC in the eyes of the RoC. It was also repeated by others also as I've stated, that a Turkish (Turk)
father and a TC mother, that the child is not a TC.!

I don't know about T_C, but I know of two people in the same situation as above that work in the south. I also had a classmate from high school with a TC mother and Pakistani father who held a Cypriot passport.

But in any case, the point being, that the 50% of the TC's will assist in making their offspring’s become illegal aliens and not a citizens under the present rules and conditions. How long before there are no TC citizens left in the eyes of the RoC. Not too long I would say.

As far as the settlers go, overwhelming majority will need to go back to Turkey, or else, if they do stay and are not given citizenships of the RoC, then they will be treated as 3rd class illegal aliens with massive discriminations against them, and not only from the GC's I may add, so much that, they will be happy to return back to their homeland, Turkey, with some cash given to them in their hands by the RoC.!

Umit07, the above was part of my answer to your post. I submitted the post by mistake without finishing it, and by the time I got it back to add the rest, you had already answered my half answer to your post.....sorry.!

Well, Pakistani father and a TC mother works, just not Turkish (Turk) father I thought, but you also gave two other examples where it supports your argument.

I mentioned this before which was told to me by a TC brother in law, where a TC woman with her 3-4 children from a Turkish (Turk) father wanted to go the south for shopping (without the father), but at the crossing, she was told by the GC's that she can go through but not the children because they had a Turk as their father. The main purpose of why conversation between myself and the BIL was not about who is married to whom and who is a citizen or who is not in the eyes of the RoC, but the fact that the GC guards at the crossing knew without being told, that the kids father was a Turks, therefore they would not be allowed to cross. Unless this was a made up story, I have to take what my BIL said to be the case and to be true.

[umit07]

Firstly Kikapu, considering the TC population there are not that many intermarriages taking place. Assuming your notion is correct, wouldn't the RoC at least grant residency for these people (mixed marriages)? I think they would have to, then comes the question how long before being obliged to grant citizenship?

The influx of Anatolian immigrants having been granted trnc citizenship, will have a say in any referendum that takes place. I doubt they'd sign their own "death warrant" in such a situation. Further more the GC administration has in the past given signs that they'd allow 50k to stay anyway.

[Kikapu]

Firstly Kikapu, considering the TC population there are not that many intermarriages taking place. Assuming your notion is correct, wouldn't the RoC at least grant residency for these people (mixed marriages)? I think they would have to, then comes the question how long before being obliged to grant citizenship?

I think all intermarriages will be granted legal residency, but to get citizenship will be another matter. Nikitas stated before, that he is married to a lady from Greece and that he has not been able to secure a RoC citizenship for her. Granted, they does not live in Cyprus, which may have an effect getting citizenship for her, I don't know.! RoC can make the rules on citizenship qualification as they go along if they wanted, I guess.! For example, in the states, if a person has entered into the country legally, then they get married, within 3 years, you can become a US citizen. Even if your stay permit has expired and remained in the US with an expired permit, the same rules apply. If on the other hand, one enters the US illegally, then they will be sent back to their home country of origin to apply for a visa to re-enter the US no matter if they have already gotten married in the US while being there illegally. If same rules are applied in Cyprus, technically all settlers, married or not to a TC will need to go back to country of origin and then apply for a visa from the RoC.

The influx of Anatolian immigrants having been granted trnc citizenship, will have a say in any referendum that takes place. I doubt they'd sign their own "death warrant" in such a situation. Further more the GC administration has in the past given signs that they'd allow 50k to stay anyway.

I think the 50,000 will be given citizenships as stated by Christofias, but only if a True Democracy and True Federation is agreed on. This was my whole point to VP, that without those principles, Cyprus will become a "Greek" island eventually, since there won't be any TC's left and those that do remain, most of their offsprings and spouses will not be eligible, and with each generation, the TC line will just vanish and so will their place in Cyprus as citizens, but will be seen as illegal aliens in the eyes of the RoC, since all of the island is recognised as being the RoC.

This is why Turkey will play a major part to get a settlement, because she will need to tell her people (settlers) in Cyprus, that they need to leave and come back home with compensation. Turkey created this problem, she will need to solve it if she wants to keep her EU dreams alive. Once a settlement is reached and the GC's start claiming their properties back from everyone, mostly from the settlers, the settlers will need to start fresh again, therefore going back to Turkey may not be too bad as an option for most with some cash given to them.

[Viewpoint]

Or Kikapus "True Democracy and Human Rights" GC double standards prime examples of what you would face in a united Cyprus.

As I've stated (warned) to you before, that unless the TC's come to a settlement with the GC's under True Democracy and respecting Human Rights along with international laws, the island of Cyprus will become a "Greek" island on the long term no matter how many settlers you may import to Cyprus to change the demographics, because they (settlers) will always be considered as illegal aliens and not as citizens and no one can make them become citizens, even the EU, if the GC's will not allow it. To make matters worse, the True TC's are leaving Cyprus with their RoC EU passports and the remaining TC's are being swallowed by the settlers, and since any child born to a TC mother with a settler father, they too (child and father) will not be considered as being a TC. You do the math and see what numbers you will get. The only way the island will not become a pure "Greek" island is by TC's being part of the Cypriot society as equal citizens under True Democracy and Human Rights.! So make jokes about Democracy and Human Rights all you want, because without them, you will not have a settlement, and without a settlement, you will have a "Greek" Cyprus in the long run and a lot of illegal aliens and not too many TC's.!

70.000.000 vs 700.000 you do the maths of who will absorb who....all a matter of time. Either they lose 37% and beg for division or get ready to be aborbed by new generation TCs.

[Kikapu]

Or Kikapus "True Democracy and Human Rights" GC double standards prime examples of what you would face in a united Cyprus.

As I've stated (warned) to you before, that unless the TC's come to a settlement with the GC's under True Democracy and respecting Human Rights along with international laws, the island of Cyprus will become a "Greek" island on the long term no matter how many settlers you may import to Cyprus to change the demographics, because they (settlers) will always be considered as illegal aliens and not as citizens and no one can make them become citizens, even the EU, if the GC's will not allow it. To make matters worse, the True TC's are leaving Cyprus with their RoC EU passports and the remaining TC's are being swallowed by the settlers, and since any child born to a TC mother with a settler father, they too (child and father) will not be considered as being a TC. You do the math and see what numbers you will get. The only way the island will not become a pure "Greek" island is by TC's being part of the Cypriot society as equal citizens under True Democracy and Human Rights.! So make jokes about Democracy and Human Rights all you want, because without them, you will not have a settlement, and without a settlement, you will have a "Greek" Cyprus in the long run and a lot of illegal aliens and not too many TC's.!

70.000.000 vs 700.000 you do the maths of who will absorb who....all a matter of time. Either they lose 37% and beg for division or get ready to be aborbed by new generation TCs.

700,000 legal citizens with voting rights V's 70,000,000 illegal aliens with no voting rights. Now, you do the math.!

[Viewpoint]

Firstly Kikapu, considering the TC population there are not that many intermarriages taking place. Assuming your notion is correct, wouldn't the RoC at least grant residency for these people (mixed marriages)? I think they would have to, then comes the question how long before being obliged to grant citizenship?

I think all intermarriages will be granted legal residency, but to get citizenship will be another matter. Nikitas stated before, that he is married to a lady from Greece and that he has not been able to secure a RoC citizenship for her. Granted, they does not live in Cyprus, which may have an effect getting citizenship for her, I don't know.! RoC can make the rules on citizenship qualification as they go along if they wanted, I guess.! For example, in the states, if a person has entered into the country legally, then they get married, within 3 years, you can become a US citizen. Even if your stay permit has expired and remained in the US with an expired permit, the same rules apply. If on the other hand, one enters the US illegally, then they will be sent back to their home country of origin to apply for a visa to re-enter the US no matter if they have already gotten married in the US while being there illegally. If same rules are applied in Cyprus, technically all settlers, married or not to a TC will need to go back to country of origin and then apply for a visa from the RoC.

The influx of Anatolian immigrants having been granted trnc citizenship, will have a say in any referendum that takes place. I doubt they'd sign their own "death warrant" in such a situation. Further more the GC administration has in the past given signs that they'd allow 50k to stay anyway.

I think the 50,000 will be given citizenships as stated by Christofias, but only if a True Democracy and True Federation is agreed on. This was my whole point to VP, that without those principles, Cyprus will become a "Greek" island eventually, since there won't be any TC's left and those that do remain, most of their offsprings and spouses will not be eligible, and with each generation, the TC line will just vanish and so will their place in Cyprus as citizens, but will be seen as illegal aliens in the eyes of the RoC, since all of the island is recognised as being the RoC.

This is why Turkey will play a major part to get a settlement, because she will need to tell her people (settlers) in Cyprus, that they need to leave and come back home with compensation. Turkey created this problem, she will need to solve it if she wants to keep her EU dreams alive. Once a settlement is reached and the GC's start claiming their properties back from everyone, mostly from the settlers, the settlers will need to start fresh again, therefore going back to Turkey may not be too bad as an option for most with some cash given to them.

Your whole argument is based on the fact that GCs will have free range to judge who stays and who goes because they are the only recognized part of the island but you forget our say in the matter and that this whole issue is part and parcel of the overall deal where we will also secure guarantees that our opinions are not disregarded by GCs.

[Oracle]

... because they are the only recognized part of the island ....

Yeah baby! ... Now you are beginning to get it!

[T_C]

Cyprus / Αρχή κατά του Ρατσισμού και των Διακρίσεων - Decision 24.03.2008


Subtitle Decision on the granting of nationality to children born to parents where one is a Turkish national
Inventory No. CASE 294 1
Deciding body Anti-discrimination Authority
Date 24.03.2008
Form of Discrimination Direct discrimination
Area Citizenship
Legal provision National law (including criminal law)
Grounds of discrimination Discrimination on ground of racial or ethnic origin
Deciding Body Specialised body
Topic Discrimination by public bodies, Third country nationals
Keywords Discrimination on ground of racial or ethnic origin , Citizenship law , Cyprus .
Abstract Key facts of the case:

On 16.01.2007 a complaint was submitted to the equality body alleging that the procedure for the acquisition of Cypriot nationality by children born to parents where one is a Turkish Cypriot and the other is a foreigner, violates the principle of equal treatment. In particular, the procedure currently followed differentiates between Cypriots married to foreigners who are not Turkish nationals on the one hand, and Turkish Cypriots married to Turkish nationals on the other hand. In the latter case, nationality is granted at the Council of Ministers’ discretion, as opposed to the former case, where the acquisition of nationality is a right guaranteed by law under certain conditions.

Main reasoning/argumentation:

The decision found that, given that the said Council of Ministers’ decision amounts to government policy, it can have no further involvement.

Key issues (concepts, interpretations) clarified by the case:

It was decided that the current practice, which is based on the equality body’s own recommendations to the Council, provides that the only the following have the right to Cypriot nationality: (a) children born on or before 20/7/1974; (b) children whose foreign parent is not a Turkish national; (c) children whose parents married abroad or in Cyprus before 20/7/1974; (d) children whose Turkish Cypriot parent was in a relationship with a Turkish national independently of the war in 1974; (e) children whose parents reside in the mixed village of Pyla.

Results (sanctions) and key consequences or implications of the case:

The policy discriminates against Turkish Cypriots, who are the most likely of all Cypriot citizens to marry Turkish nationals, and at the same times creates a category of undesirables, who are the Turkish nationals that came to Cyprus after the war in 1974, irrespective of whether they had anything to do with the war or not. The policy is obviously intended not to legitimise the presence of the so called ‘Turkish settlers’ who came to Cyprus in large numbers after the 1974 war but in doing so it punishes Turkish nationals who do not fall into that category, the Turkish Cypriots who are married to them and the children born out of such wedlock. It is not clear to what extent this policy reflects the equality body’s own recommendations towards the Ministerial Council but it is apparent that, whilst the Council made a political decision ignoring the parameters of non-discrimination, the equality body chose to exempt governmental policy from scrutiny under the equality laws.

http://infoportal.fra.europa.eu/InfoPor ... .do?id=288

See what I mean!!!

[Get Real!]

See what I mean!!!

I'm curious who you're mad at...

Turkey? The RoC? Your mum?