Cyprus-Forum.com

[EPSILON]

Foreign Minister Huseyin Ozgurgun has said that the red lines of the Turkish Cypriot Side are the two founding states, un-diluted bi-zonality, political equality of the two founding states and Turkey’s active guarantee.

Turkey's military needs to bring all its war criminals to justice. So many atrocities were committed by this so-called professional army back in 1974 how can the victims of these atrocities possibly accept them as "active guarantors"? How?

If you were living in the free part of Cyprus, free from the clutches of this military, free from fear of intervention of this military, would you accept this guarantee? Wouldn't this be a 'red line' for you?

The military of Turkey must leave, never to darken Cyprus's door again and alternative, mutually acceptable security arrangements agreed.

Just as 1963 and 67 Murderers on both sides have never been brought to justice and some achieved very high levels in government on both sides, unfortunately nor will the 74 murderers on both sides. It is better that they come forward and identify the location of where their victims are, so their families can have peace and closure. I doubt that anything will be gained by pursuing them for justice.

As to the Guaranty, without it, TCs will not vote for any agreement. I cannot see why there is an objection. If GC never attack TCs, then Turkey will not attack GCs, and I know you are going to jump up and down saying that GCs did not touch TCs until after the Turkish intervention bla bla, as much as you will deny it Sampson had every intention of wiping TC out. Whether its true or not is immaterial, TC believe it and will not vote for any peace without guarantee.
How many times have we been here? 10000000000million times.

My friend stop confusing guarantee and control.Are two different things.Territorial waters and air space can not be "CONTROLLED" by the gurantor , they can be gurrantee.Personally i give a sht about Turkey's gurantee TO be accepted on not (repeat only gurantee,) basis third party or fourth party will be NATO or UN or EU.!!!

[The Cypriot]

You remember what Makarios said? I cannot take my people where they don't want to go.

But I thought they wanted an end to their isolation? An end to 'embargoes'? An end to a lower standard of living? An end to the restriction of their human rights? They do want to go, but they've been sold a red herring for far too long as to what is responsible for this situation and how it can be removed. That's what I mean about leading.

[Simon]

There is not a cat in hell's chance that there will be a solution. It is simple, the Greek Cypriot red lines clearly contradict the Turkish ones. Even if by some miracle the two leaders agree, the relevant populations will reject because they are simply a million miles apart. So any talk of a solution is pure fantasy.

[bill cobbett]

We were saved and grateful for it.

Fine. Say thank you. And let's move on.

Don't you see/ A fully reunited and fully grateful Cyprus – together with Greece – would repay a fully civilised Turkey a hundred-fold, by lobbying the EU for her entry... Like Greece did for Cyprus.

I can see that and I think Greece is further on that matter. However the real problem is that TC will not vote for any plan without guaranty. We are in an impossible situation.

... and your greecy friends won't vote for a settlement that includes a Tr guarantee. You'll appreciate the reasons for this F.

There is a workaround to what seems an intractable problem.

Explain.

Well I can think of two or three. Here's one. Not saying I approve of it, just to demonstate there are ways out of our dilemma.

Guaranteeship by the all three of the Unholy Trinity continues with suitable time limit. All three have equal numbers of peace-keepers on the ground.

Tissys are happy cos they have an extension of Tr guarantee and their perceived fears are recognised. Greecys are happy cos there's a very large reduction in Tr Barmy and an end in sight to all three creppy guaranteeships.

Again - stressed I may or may not agree with this, just showing that "impossible is nothing" .

[DT.]

I can see that and I think Greece is further on that matter. However the real problem is that TC will not vote for any plan without guaranty. We are in an impossible situation.

YFred, the politicians have to lead, not come up with destructive red lines which put us in an impossible situation!

You remember what Makarios said? I cannot take my people where they don't want to go.

Yes but since when have TC's had a say in what goes on in the north?

[Viewpoint]

Foreign Minister Huseyin Ozgurgun has said that the red lines of the Turkish Cypriot Side are the two founding states, un-diluted bi-zonality, political equality of the two founding states and Turkey’s active guarantee.

Turkey's military needs to bring all its war criminals to justice. So many atrocities were committed by this so-called professional army back in 1974 how can the victims of these atrocities possibly accept them as "active guarantors"? How?

If you were living in the free part of Cyprus, free from the clutches of this military, free from fear of intervention of this military, would you accept this guarantee? Wouldn't this be a 'red line' for you?

The military of Turkey must leave, never to darken Cyprus's door again and alternative, mutually acceptable security arrangements agreed.

12.000 GC soldiers
160.000 GC armed reservists
and how many Greek soldiers was it...hypocracy in its true form.

[Dr J]

I personally think we should spend the next ten years sueing the arse off Turkey and people like the Orams

Im all for GC and TC living in a single democracy but dont think Turkey or TC should get even 1% of exclusive land just for them. Kyrenia was founded by GREEKS and so was Salamis, we should not let the indigenous peoples of these ancient towns end up like those of Constantinople or Smyrna.