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Erdogan: "[turkey's] Expulsion history is fascism"

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Erdogan: "[turkey's] Expulsion history is fascism"

Postby james_mav » Mon May 25, 2009 1:38 am

The turkish PM appears to undermine his own military's "peace" operation in Cyprus, not to mention the actions of the turkish state over the last 90 years.

If he considers the expulsion of an ethnic minority from their homeland fascism, I wonder what he considers the expulsion of an ethnic majority.

Expulsion history ’fascism,’ says PM

ISTANBUL - Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's recent speech on the historical events of expelling ethnic identities out of Turkey, which he defined as a fascist act, is seen as a significant step by some commentators. However, the community members want to see action

Expulsion history ’fascism,’ says PM Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said it was fascistic to expel ethnic identities out of the country.

For experts, Erdoğan’s speech on Saturday was a historic one, as it was the first time a high official accepted that there have been unlawful and undemocratic practices against minorities in the past. However, the speech should be supported by acts to solve minority problems, according to community members.

Erdoğan spoke in the western province of Düzce at the Justice and Development Party, or AKP’s, usual provincial congress. He harshly reacted to criticism from opposition parties about a tender for a mine clearing operation along the Turkey-Syria border and said: "Capital has no religion, nationality or race." He said they made the same mistake before, referring to the reluctance of allowing foreign companies to invest in Turkey.

"This is a historical speech. The prime minister criticized history on behalf of the state," Rıdvan Akar, editor-in-chief of news program "32. Gün," told daily Vatan yesterday.

Erdoğan’s speech is seen as a reference to the Sept. 6 and 7 events in Istanbul in 1955 when many Greek shops and houses were pillaged by crowds after false news reported that Turkey’s founder Mustafa Kemal Atatürk’s house in the Thessaloniki neighborhood of Greece was burnt down. After the pogrom, many Greek people who were born and lived in Istanbul had to leave the city.

Kezban Hatemi, a lawyer, told the Hürriyet Daily News & Economic Review that the country lost its glamour after the events of Sept. 6 and 7 adding: "The prime minister’s speech reveals that they [the government] are showing an effort in removing the obstacles in front of democracy." Hatemi said Erdoğan’s speech was not an apology but the first clear remark from a top official on the unlawful approach to minorities in Turkey.

Laki Vingas, a member of the community representative assembly at the General Directorate for Foundations, said there have been positive developments during the AKP’s term in government. Vingas said they used to think about ways to leave the country Although Greek community members in Turkey believe Erdoğan’s remark was significant, they want to see action before they believe in the speech. Words alone do not solve the current problems the communities face in Turkey, according to Mihail Vasiliadis, editor-in-chief of the Apoyevmatini, a Greek-language Istanbul newspaper. Self criticism is good, but not enough, Vasiliadis told the daily Vatan. "I have heard things like that before and have gotten excited, but now the continuation of those speeches should come," said Vasiliadis.

"I have heard things like that before and have gotten excited, but now the continuation of those speeches should come," said Vasiliadis. The current problems mentioned are assets and land taken from minority foundations and the Halki seminary on Heybeliada.

Cengiz Aktar, a columnist at the Hürrıyet Daily News & Economic Review, said it was important to mention the discrimination and assimilation committed against ethnic identities, especially during the first eras of the Turkish Republic. "However, even the laws to protect the ethnic identities are not applied in reality. .

Meanwhile, opposition parties reacted to Erdoğan’s speech. Onur Öymen, vice president of the main opposition Republican People’s Party, or CHP, said associating Turkey’s history with terms like fascism through hearsay information is not right, news agency NTV reported yesterday.


http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/11717022.asp?scr=1
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Postby Oracle » Mon May 25, 2009 9:52 am

This is the result of a combination of constant EU pressure, plus Obama's (Greek lobby inspired) meeting last month, culminating in Turkey realising they have no more free, unconditional support from the Occidental Superpowers.

This terrorist-led country, building up nuclear capability, has a long way to go in reversing its thoughtlessly chosen path ....

Let's hope the next admission is their mistake of continued armed occupation in Cyprus.
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Postby james_mav » Mon May 25, 2009 10:00 am

Oracle wrote:This is the result of a combination of constant EU pressure, plus Obama's (Greek lobby inspired) meeting last month, culminating in Turkey realising they have no more free, unconditional support from the Occidental Superpowers.

This terrorist-led country, building up nuclear capability, has a long way to go in reversing its thoughtlessly chosen path ....

Let's hope the next admission is their mistake of continued armed occupation in Cyprus.

I don't think you're right at all. If anything american influence in ankara is waning rather than strengthening. My opinion is that this is more about ankara's desire to become something of a regional power by winning the hearts and minds of the region, the vast majority of whom are muslim and/or arab. Despite the cordial relations of the last 10 or so years, public enemy number 1 is Israel, and the turks are admitting previous sins (and as you say, also hopefully making amends) so as to clear the decks in order to enable rhetorical attacks against the state of Israel, who also performed fascists acts such as expelling "minorities".
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Postby james_mav » Mon May 25, 2009 10:07 am

james_mav wrote:
Oracle wrote:This is the result of a combination of constant EU pressure, plus Obama's (Greek lobby inspired) meeting last month, culminating in Turkey realising they have no more free, unconditional support from the Occidental Superpowers.

This terrorist-led country, building up nuclear capability, has a long way to go in reversing its thoughtlessly chosen path ....

Let's hope the next admission is their mistake of continued armed occupation in Cyprus.

I don't think you're right at all. If anything american influence in ankara is waning rather than strengthening. My opinion is that this is more about ankara's desire to become something of a regional power by winning the hearts and minds of the region, the vast majority of whom are muslim and/or arab. Despite the cordial relations of the last 10 or so years, public enemy number 1 is Israel, and the turks are admitting previous sins (and as you say, also hopefully making amends) so as to clear the decks in order to enable rhetorical attacks against the state of Israel, who also performed fascists acts such as expelling "minorities".


Not to mention of course the purely domestic political angle: Erdogan and the AKP is engaged in an ideological struggle with his kemalist enemies within turkey. To attack the policies of kemalism, especially with a loaded word like 'fascism' is to attack his political enemies.
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Postby Oracle » Mon May 25, 2009 10:14 am

I don't think I'm wrong that the driving force is a fear of being treated like Iraq and Afghanistan; but I think what you say, that they are also playing the Arab/Muslim card, is true ... So, maybe they are up to their old tricks of double-dealing ....
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Postby insan » Mon May 25, 2009 2:47 pm

james_mav wrote:
Oracle wrote:This is the result of a combination of constant EU pressure, plus Obama's (Greek lobby inspired) meeting last month, culminating in Turkey realising they have no more free, unconditional support from the Occidental Superpowers.

This terrorist-led country, building up nuclear capability, has a long way to go in reversing its thoughtlessly chosen path ....

Let's hope the next admission is their mistake of continued armed occupation in Cyprus.

I don't think you're right at all. If anything american influence in ankara is waning rather than strengthening. My opinion is that this is more about ankara's desire to become something of a regional power by winning the hearts and minds of the region, the vast majority of whom are muslim and/or arab. Despite the cordial relations of the last 10 or so years, public enemy number 1 is Israel, and the turks are admitting previous sins (and as you say, also hopefully making amends) so as to clear the decks in order to enable rhetorical attacks against the state of Israel, who also performed fascists acts such as expelling "minorities".


Clever man... Oracle has a lot to learn from u. Then she might be able to comrehend what's really going on... :D
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Postby james_mav » Mon May 25, 2009 2:54 pm

insan wrote:
james_mav wrote:
Oracle wrote:This is the result of a combination of constant EU pressure, plus Obama's (Greek lobby inspired) meeting last month, culminating in Turkey realising they have no more free, unconditional support from the Occidental Superpowers.

This terrorist-led country, building up nuclear capability, has a long way to go in reversing its thoughtlessly chosen path ....

Let's hope the next admission is their mistake of continued armed occupation in Cyprus.

I don't think you're right at all. If anything american influence in ankara is waning rather than strengthening. My opinion is that this is more about ankara's desire to become something of a regional power by winning the hearts and minds of the region, the vast majority of whom are muslim and/or arab. Despite the cordial relations of the last 10 or so years, public enemy number 1 is Israel, and the turks are admitting previous sins (and as you say, also hopefully making amends) so as to clear the decks in order to enable rhetorical attacks against the state of Israel, who also performed fascists acts such as expelling "minorities".


Clever man... Oracle has a lot to learn from u. Then she might be able to comrehend what's really going on... :D

Yes but insofar as it pertains to the Cyprus problem, it is surprising that Erdogan would weaken turkey's position like this. I suppose he views it as weakening the position of the army and his predecessors.
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Postby Oracle » Mon May 25, 2009 2:56 pm

insan wrote:
james_mav wrote:
Oracle wrote:This is the result of a combination of constant EU pressure, plus Obama's (Greek lobby inspired) meeting last month, culminating in Turkey realising they have no more free, unconditional support from the Occidental Superpowers.

This terrorist-led country, building up nuclear capability, has a long way to go in reversing its thoughtlessly chosen path ....

Let's hope the next admission is their mistake of continued armed occupation in Cyprus.

I don't think you're right at all. If anything american influence in ankara is waning rather than strengthening. My opinion is that this is more about ankara's desire to become something of a regional power by winning the hearts and minds of the region, the vast majority of whom are muslim and/or arab. Despite the cordial relations of the last 10 or so years, public enemy number 1 is Israel, and the turks are admitting previous sins (and as you say, also hopefully making amends) so as to clear the decks in order to enable rhetorical attacks against the state of Israel, who also performed fascists acts such as expelling "minorities".


Clever man... Oracle has a lot to learn from u. Then she might be able to comrehend what's really going on... :D


So long as you both agree that Turkey is filling the void left by Iraq .... then, good luck Turkey, as the end is nigh ..... :lol:
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Postby james_mav » Mon May 25, 2009 3:14 pm

Oracle wrote:So long as you both agree that Turkey is filling the void left by Iraq .... then, good luck Turkey, as the end is nigh ..... :lol:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, I very much doubt any western power would want to (or even could) invade Turkey in the next generation or so. To my limited understanding the fears of the turk military are (roughly in order of seriousness/likelyhood):
- Kurdish insurrection causing internal destabilisation. Amplified by an oil rich and autonomous Kurdish region in Iraq, by far and away the biggest threat. Also turkey is more exposed to international criticism (as opposed to Iran, Iraq, and Syria) for their treatment of kurds, so they have to be more restrained in how they respond to kurd aggression.
- Russia pushing back on turk influence in and around the black and caspian seas, by force if necessary (as demonstrated in Georgia last year, and potentially again this summer)
- Limited conflict with Greece in the Aegean. While a stalemate is the most likely outcome of a full scale war, Greece would opt for denying access to shipping of all flags to the Black Sea in an attempt to strange turkey economically and bring international pressure to bear. Serious mainland conflict is unlikely due to the massive buildup of hardware, making the risk to either side too great to attempt anything. In any case, unlikely.
As far as their Anglo-American patrons go, turkey walks a fine line between aligning herself with the US and the UK while at the same time putting out the feelers to Iran and Syria, who after North Korea are the two most likely nations to be in the crosshairs of the US. How long turkey can play this game of being a friend of so many competing powers is the question.
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Postby insan » Mon May 25, 2009 3:27 pm

Oracle wrote:
insan wrote:
james_mav wrote:
Oracle wrote:This is the result of a combination of constant EU pressure, plus Obama's (Greek lobby inspired) meeting last month, culminating in Turkey realising they have no more free, unconditional support from the Occidental Superpowers.

This terrorist-led country, building up nuclear capability, has a long way to go in reversing its thoughtlessly chosen path ....

Let's hope the next admission is their mistake of continued armed occupation in Cyprus.

I don't think you're right at all. If anything american influence in ankara is waning rather than strengthening. My opinion is that this is more about ankara's desire to become something of a regional power by winning the hearts and minds of the region, the vast majority of whom are muslim and/or arab. Despite the cordial relations of the last 10 or so years, public enemy number 1 is Israel, and the turks are admitting previous sins (and as you say, also hopefully making amends) so as to clear the decks in order to enable rhetorical attacks against the state of Israel, who also performed fascists acts such as expelling "minorities".


Clever man... Oracle has a lot to learn from u. Then she might be able to comrehend what's really going on... :D


So long as you both agree that Turkey is filling the void left by Iraq .... then, good luck Turkey, as the end is nigh ..... :lol:


However, there r a few things James is not knowledged. Israel is not enemy number one of Turkey. Khazar Turks r jews and Turkey has significant interest realtions with Jews. Another issue James is pretending he is not aware is that expulsion of minorities happened in all Eastern European countries(including Greece) and Middle Eastern Countries. Expulsion of minorities in those nation states hapened under the then circumstances. It can be considered as a fascistic action but we need to take into consideration the then circumstances of those countries when evaluateing the issue.

U r(especially Oracle) tending to interprete most of the issues regarding Turkey as end of her existence bcz that's what suits ur self-interests...
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