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Concentration camps

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby polis » Thu May 21, 2009 5:37 pm

runaway wrote:Those people in the camp ... were put there before military operation.


Nonsense. All these men are men of fighting age that made up the reserves of the Turkish Cypriot forces and were detained after the start of the hostilites. There is not a single Turkish Cypriot casualty or detainee before the 20th July 1974.

Can someone translate what the speaker is saying here http://www.milliyet.com.tr/Yasam/SonDakika.aspx?aType=SonDakika&ArticleID=1097245&Date=21.05.2009&b=Rumlarin%20Kibristaki%20olum%20kampi&KategoriID=15&ver=21? Did the Turkish TV channel actually claim that the people taken to the camps were arrested before the start of the invasion?!
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Postby runaway » Thu May 21, 2009 10:33 pm

polis wrote:There is not a single Turkish Cypriot casualty or detainee before the 20th July 1974.


Think before you write. This is the symbol of Turkish resistance against gc brutality, one mother and her 3 children killed in a bath tub of their house and happened in 1963 :

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Postby Oracle » Thu May 21, 2009 10:58 pm

runaway ... why don't you pay more attention to detail :roll:

Please re-read some of the comments to realise how your propaganda is so transparent that you are only serving to make a fool of yourself and an even bigger mockery of your country, Turkey, the killer elites!

This is a fact:

Turkey is responsible for the biggest Genocide and ethnic cleansing operations of the 20th Century ... all part of their determined Expansionist plans ... Cyprus is one of the last casualties of that Genocide/ethnic cleansing expansionist plan ... AND that is a FACT!
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Postby Get Real! » Thu May 21, 2009 11:29 pm

runaway wrote:This is the symbol of Turkish resistance against gc brutality, one mother and her 3 children killed in a bath tub of their house and happened in 1963

Oh, it's a rehash of the bathtub story! I should've known... :lol:

PS: Would this be rehash #172 or 173? :?
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu May 21, 2009 11:48 pm

runaway dont you know that the GC claim we killed the children and placed them in bath, all they do is deny deny deny and blame everyone else but themselves, the real culprits...always someone elses fault, pathetic really.
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Postby DT. » Fri May 22, 2009 12:01 am

It was on the news today

RUNAWAY IS A LIAR

TURNS OUT THAT THOSE PICTURES ARE FROM THE BRITISH BASES WHERE THE TC'S HUDDLED TOGETHER FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY DURING THE INVASION

I ask from the TC's that actually lived in Cyprus during the invasion to verify from their own experience and not some poncy Brit/turks that arrived in Cyprus 10 years ago to snap up some cheap GC land.
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Postby 74LB » Fri May 22, 2009 1:16 am

The video clip is said to be taken from BBC & ITN archives.
The commentator says its the first time these are being broadcast from the above corporations and the material shows -

At 00:55 - Episkopi 'prison camp' - says up to 20,000 TC' were held as prisoners in open air day & night for 6 months. Shows food being passed from hand to hand from the guards to the prisoners

At 01:30 - Adana 'prison camp' - 285 GC POW's held here in 'clean conditions', the commentator says the RoC claimed 1000 were held and all were killed whereas we are told that the 285 were released via the Red Crescent to the RoC.

At 2:18 it shows TC fleeing to safety, followed by a clip from Michael Nicholson (ITN reporter) - commentator says they are witnessing history.

At 03:00 it shows the UN providing water to TC's.

At 03:20 it shows 'bodies' of those (TC's) killed

At 03:40 it shows clips of women/children left behind while their men are away fighting 'in the hills'

At 03:50 it shows the UN asking for gurantees of safety for the TC's

The commentator says there is approx 1 hours worth of footage that has been released.

My own experience, is that from the morning of 20/07/74 my small village was bombarded with shells and gunfire from the Greek/GC army. We left for the walled town of Gazi Magusa at approx 18:00 and stayed there till well into Sept before being allowed back to our homes.

Everyone has their own stories to tell, and to be honest this footage brought everything back as if it all happened only yesterday.
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Postby Piratis » Fri May 22, 2009 5:20 am

runaway wrote:
polis wrote:There is not a single Turkish Cypriot casualty or detainee before the 20th July 1974.


Think before you write. This is the symbol of Turkish resistance against gc brutality, one mother and her 3 children killed in a bath tub of their house and happened in 1963 :


So you went back to 1963 in order to excuse the Turkish invasion of 1974? The fact is that the war of 1974 was started by the Turks on 20th of July. All TC casulties in 1974 (a couple of 100s) were after the Turks with the help of the TCs invaded Cyprus and started killing GCs by the 1000s. No TC was killed in 1974 before the Turkish invasion.

As far as the inter-communal conflict goes, it was again started by the Turks in 1958:



As I said, you are the ones to always start the wars and conflicts against us, and then you are trying to present yourselves as the victims because in the wars you started you also had some casualties. If we went with your logic, the Germans who lost 7 million people during WWII must also be the innocent ones while the Allies must be the aggressors :roll:
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Postby polis » Fri May 22, 2009 5:51 am

runaway wrote:
polis wrote:There is not a single Turkish Cypriot casualty or detainee before the 20th July 1974.


Think before you write. This is the symbol of Turkish resistance against gc brutality, one mother and her 3 children killed in a bath tub of their house and happened in 1963


Try to see the context before jumping the gun. I was referring to the events of July 1974, that is the period between the coup of the 15th July 1974 and the invasion of the 20th July 1974.
Last edited by polis on Fri May 22, 2009 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby polis » Fri May 22, 2009 6:03 am

74LB wrote:The video clip is said to be taken from BBC & ITN archives.
The commentator says its the first time these are being broadcast from the above corporations and the material shows -

At 00:55 - Episkopi 'prison camp' - says up to 20,000 TC' were held as prisoners in open air day & night for 6 months. Shows food being passed from hand to hand from the guards to the prisoners

At 01:30 - Adana 'prison camp' - 285 GC POW's held here in 'clean conditions', the commentator says the RoC claimed 1000 were held and all were killed whereas we are told that the 285 were released via the Red Crescent to the RoC.

At 2:18 it shows TC fleeing to safety, followed by a clip from Michael Nicholson (ITN reporter) - commentator says they are witnessing history.

At 03:00 it shows the UN providing water to TC's.

At 03:20 it shows 'bodies' of those (TC's) killed

At 03:40 it shows clips of women/children left behind while their men are away fighting 'in the hills'

At 03:50 it shows the UN asking for gurantees of safety for the TC's

The commentator says there is approx 1 hours worth of footage that has been released.

My own experience, is that from the morning of 20/07/74 my small village was bombarded with shells and gunfire from the Greek/GC army. We left for the walled town of Gazi Magusa at approx 18:00 and stayed there till well into Sept before being allowed back to our homes.

Everyone has their own stories to tell, and to be honest this footage brought everything back as if it all happened only yesterday.


Thanks for telling us what the commentator is saying.

As for the clip itself, first of all, Episkopi was not a prison camp set up by the Greek Cypriots but a camp set up by the British in the bases.

I read from another thread that the people shown fleeing their homes are in fact Greek Cypriots.

With regard to the actual conditions of detention of the Greek Cypriot prisoners, here's what the European Commission of Human Rights had to say:

B. Conditions of detention
...........................

(3) Evidence obtained

381. The main witness who was heard by the Delegation with regard to the allegations of ill-treatment in detention is Mr. Pirkettis, a 37-year-old school teacher [552], who had been deported to Adana.

He stated that he and his fellow detainees were repeatedly beaten after their arrest, on their way to Adana, in the Adana prison and later in the camp at Amasya to where he was transferred.

382. Relevant passages of his statements were as follows:

- with regard to the period after his arrest in Cyprus:

"they blindfolded us again, they put us in some buses, they began beating us - it was the first time we were beaten very bad on the heads with guns, with the barrel of the gun, or with the other side of the gun, with their fists and kicking us, and there is something else: they took our shoes from us at that time and made us walk through the fields which were full of thorns, thistles ... We were ... being beaten all the time" [553].

- with regard to the transport on the ship to Turkey:

"Then we were taken to the ship, that was another moment of terrible beating again ... We were tied all the time ... I lost the sense of touch. I could not feel anything for about two or three months ... Every time we asked for water or spoke we were being beaten " [554].

- with regard to the arrival at Adana:

"... then one by one they led us to prisons, through a long corridor ... Going through that corridor was another terrible experience. There were about 100 soldiers from both sides, with sticks, clubs and with their fists beating every one of us, while going to the other end of the corridor. I was beaten at least 50 times, until I reached the other end, and kicked" [555].

- with regard to detention at Adana:

"... anybody who said he would like to see the doctor, he was beaten ... Beating was on the agenda every day. I would not say it was organised beating but it was always there especially by soldiers, sometimes some officers [556]. There were one or two very good, very nice people, but they were afraid to show their kindness as they told us" [557]

- with regard to his transfer to Amasia:

"We were loaded again in trucks and taken to the railway station. There were many soldiers there, many policemen, and too many people, and they began spitting on us, cursing, and when we were obliged to pass before them they kicked us, they kept beating us and so on ..." [558]

- with regard to the detention at Amasia:

"... we were all the time ill-treated again". [559]

383. The witness also stated that:

- co-detainees, whose names he indicated, had been ill-treated. For example, at Amasia, a man of 27 was kicked in the mouth and lost several teeth and his lower jaw came off in pieces. Another man was hit on his chest with an iron lock by a Turkish soldier and his whole chest became black and he was aching for a week [560]

- a Turkish officer who was, according to another Turkish soldier, a karate student did his exercises by hitting every prisoner;

- another prisoner told him that on two or three occasions two or three prisoners were hung by the feet over the hole of a water closet for hours [561];

- a man, whose name was indicated by the witness had shown him his back injured by a second lieutenant who used to prick all prisoners with a pin whenever he found a chance when the prisoners were taken into the yard [562].

384. Mr. Pirkettis evidence was to a great extent corroborated by Dr. Hadjikakou who stated that those deported persons who came back from Adana were all in an emaciated condition and on nine occasions he found signs of wounds [563]. Dr. Hadjikakou further reported of cases of ill-treatment in camps in Cyprus and added that he could produce his records because the victims whom he had examined had authorised him to use these records [564]. He gave the following general description of conditions in detention at Pavlides garage, Serai prison and Adana as reported to him by former detainees [565]:

"They were kept there for several days, some for months, without blankets and were being kept awake all night by purposeful noise-making. Their food at the beginning and for several weeks consisted of one-eighth of a loaf of bread daily with some olives occasionally. There were two buckets of water and two mugs which were never cleaned, from which about 1,000 people had to drink. The toilets were filthy with faeces rising over the basins, and floors were covered with faeces and urine. The latest stories were of people tied up blindfolded taken to Kyrenia to be shipped to Turkey, but for some unknown reason brought back the following day. They were not untied all this time and they all urinated and defecated on themselves. When they were eventually untied they had no water to wash their faces of their clothes and they had to wipe them on the walls and the floor. Those that were sent to Turkey were placed in the hull of a Turkish ship without being untied. Some shiploads were untied, but some were taken tied all the way. They were asking for water and they gave them cupfuls of sea-water. On arrival at the prisons in Turkey they were made to walk and run through the corridor, run the lines by Turkish soldiers to beat them, sometimes with whips, sometimes with the butts of their guns. They were then taken to the yard where some had their shoes taken off them, their pockets and their money. In the prison at Adana they were kept 76 in a cell. They were kept in their cell for 10 days others for two or three weeks before they were eventually allowed to go into the yard. They were issued with three towels for 76 prisoners and one block of soap per eight persons per month to wash themselves and their clothes. There is a fully corroborated story of a prison doctor at Adana who used to beat up all the prisoners that reported to him. One night they took him a patient with retention of urine and he kicked him downstairs."

385. As regards individual cases, Dr. Hadjikakou, inter alia, described the fate of two civilians. One had to amputate his toes with a blade in consequence of ill-treatment. This man was caught in Achna when he went to his village to collect some things from his house. He and another man caught at the same place were beaten up with hard objects. When he asked for water he was given a glass full of urine. His toes were then stepped on until they became blue, swollen and subsequently gangrenous. The smell was so bad that he had to cut the toes with a razor blade. The other man underwent the same treatment and when he was taken to Kanellos Hospital in Nicosia he agreed to have his legs amputated, but did not survive the operation [566]. Further details are given in the handwritten notes which Dr. Hadjikakou submitted as part of his evidence [567].

386. Mrs. Soulioti gave the following description of the conditions in the detention centres as reported to her [568]:

"The people who were put in these churches, schools or houses all together were guarded by soldiers; they were not allowed to leave even the premises in which they actually happened to be put. They were kept in terribly overcrowded conditions. In fact, described as lying one on top of the other. They had no mattresses or even blankets to lie on. There were no sanitary facilities, especially as the water had been cut off and they had to drink water from the wells which were sometimes polluted. Old people wore crowded in with young children including babies. In an ordinary size room, for instance, there were about - according to one statement - seventy-six women, children and babies according to another, a hundred and fifty in one of the rooms in the school. The food they had, particularly at the beginning, was all that remained in the houses where they happened to be. According to the statements, the men were beaten up regularly for no apparent reason, most of them were old men."

As regards Greek-Cypriots who were detained in Turkey Mrs. Soulioti stated that she was present when the prisoners were released. "They came in a very bad state, with the clothes falling off them, they had not had a bath since they had been taken, and some of them were limping and said that they had been badly beaten." [569].

387. Mr. Stylianou described the reported treatment of enclaved Greek Cypriots as follows [570]:

"After the second Turkish attack in August 1974 we had about 15,000 Greek Cypriots enclaved in the Turkish-occupied areas. The conditions under which they lived were in several cases and in several areas tragic, owing to the fact that in several areas hundreds of enclaved were beaten and dozens were executed, many of them were ill-treated; Greeks were also ill-treated. They have cut off their ears in some cases like the case of Palekythro and Trahoni ..."

Mr. Odysseos, referring to statements in his possession, described the conditions of Greek Cypriots enclaved in the Morphou School Building:

"All these people were taken in, about 600 of them and they were, let us say, accommodated in a few rooms, about six in one room, nine in another room, 15 in another room; in this small house there were about 60 people. No blankets at the beginning; they had to sleep either on the pupils' desks or on the cement; no food at all. They were not allowed to take even a single thing of their belongings. They were under confinement and Turkish soldiers were guarding all along, day and night; no light during night time. If they wanted to go to the toilet, which was about 50 yards away from the building, they had to ask permission; they were accompanied but definitely not during night time; they were never allowed out during night time. We had it from statements, and especially from this woman (name stated), who by that time had fits every now and then, and diarrhea; she was forced to stay in the same room where people were living to ease herself."

"There was no washing at all. They could not have a bath, wash themselves, and this (name stated) who stayed there about two months in this school building, in her statement to me says she was with the same clothing all along for the whole period of two months. If I can describe the condition myself I would say what I saw people whom I knew very well - they were neighbours well known to me - they were wrecks, psychologically they were wrecks." [571]

388. Five refugees (witnesses B, C, D, H and K), who were interviewed by Delegates in refugee camps, stated that they were either victims or eye-witnesses of beatings in detention centres [572].

389. Several written statements describe beatings of detainees at Voni [573], Palekythro [574], Marathovouno [575], Vitsada [576]. There is also one statement according to which no ill-treatment took place at Voni [577]. On 13 May 1975 the applicant Government submitted a further seven statements described as being by one civilian and six soldiers taken as prisoners to Turkey, who complain of physical ill-treatment and inadequate food supply.

(4) Evaluation of the evidence obtained

390. The Commission, considering the personal reliability of the witnesses heard, and the fact that their statements to some extent corroborate each other, finds these statements consistent and credible. It especially accepted after careful examination the evidence given by Mr. Pirkettis, whom it considers honest and sincere.

391. It is true that among the written statements submitted by the applicant Government there is one according to which the conditions of detention at Adana were at one time rather satisfactory [578]. However, Mr. Pirkettis stated that there were rooms in the prison which he never saw and which were probably supervised by other officers [579]. This would explain the divergence between his testimony and the written statement in question. Mr. Pirkettis himself also mentioned that among the prison personnel some behaved in a friendly manner and disapproved of the ill-treatment of prisoners. It is therefore not in contradiction to his testimony if persons who were held prisoner at other places in Adana report to have been - at least after their arrival - correctly treated. Moreover, Mr. Pirkettis' descriptions of the beating in the corridor on arrival at Adana is fully confirmed by the statement in question [580], and the Commission further notes that in the written statements submitted the living conditions of Greek Cypriot detainees in Turkey were generally described as horrible [581] or the description was similar to that given by Mr. Pirkettis [582].

392. The written statements submitted have, for the reasons already stated [583], not been further investigated. However, together with the above evidence, they constitute further strong indications of physical ill-treatment of prisoners.

(5) Responsibility of Turkey under the Convention

393. The evidence obtained establishes that, in a considerable number of cases, prisoners were severely beaten or otherwise physically ill-treated by Turkish soldiers. These acts are therefore imputable to Turkey under the Convention.

(6) Conclusion

394. The Commission, by 12 votes against one, concludes: The testimony of Mr. Pirkettis and of Dr. Hadjikakou suffice to show that prisoners were in a number of cases physically ill-treated by Turkish soldiers. These acts of ill-treatment caused considerable injuries and at least in one case described by Dr. Hadjikakou the death of the victim. By their severity they constitute "inhuman treatment" in the sense of Art. 3 of the Convention, which must be imputed to Turkey.
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