Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

James_mav asked a legitimate question and the usual suspects jumped in repeating their nonsense which we heard so many times before and simply bore me to death at present.

[boomerang]

James_mav asked a legitimate question and the usual suspects jumped in repeating their nonsense which we heard so many times before and simply bore me to death at present.

whereas your responce is?....

[Paphitis]

6 YEARS BEFORE THE TURKISH INVASION N O T O N E S I N G L E T/C LOST HIS /HER LIFE AS A RESULT OF VILOLENCE BT G/CS ,

These nonsense that a killing spree was taking place is just that , nonsense. Not one single T/C killed , attacked maimed or hurt in any way. In 1974 just before the coup and the Turkish invasion , I was in Famagusta on holiday. Witnessed T/Cs coming out of the walled city of Famagusta to attend their daily chores in the RoC controlled areas. There was no violence at that time.

What pure nonsense... Go sell this shit to others, it just won`t do with us. During those 6 years TCs were completely ejected from the government, the constitution of the state was almost completely altered under the auspices of the "doctrine of necessity", an armed GC gang called the "national guard" was formed and operational (in complete contravention to the original constitution) by the GCs and was being harbored by the "RoC" government, TCs were confined into enclaves and those that came out needed to submit to the authority and decisions of a 100% GC government and additionally to the control of GC military and police. Let me also remind you that this is a period when your elected leader Makarios is on official record for stating that he would not move forward with the talks with us unless the option for ENOSIS is explicitly incorporated into the constitution of the RoC in any agreed settlement.

There are virtues which we consider more dear than our lives.

We have ben through this all before...

A common propaganda bite used by the Turkish state to legitimize its 1974 invasion of Cyprus is that "The Greek Cypriots then unleashed a campaign of extermination and eviction that killed or wounded thousands and drove a frightening percentage of Turkish Cypriots into besieged enclaves.." (Insight Magazine, "Fences Might Be the Right Thing for Multiethnic Nation of Cyprus", Ahmet Erdengiz, Feb. 7).

And let’s not mention the false claims of genocide which only claimed about 800 TC lives, compared to some 10,000 GC victims from 1958-1974.

And the sole purpose of these besieged enclaves was none other than to facilitate the dream of TAKSIM!

This claim has been refuted by findings of impartial sources such as the UN Secretary General's report No. S/5950, para. 142 which confirms that as a result of the brief but turbulent period of hostilities between Greek and Turkish-Cypriot extremists from December 21, 1963 to June 8, 1964, a total of 43 Greek Cypriots and 232 Turkish Cypriots are missing and presumed dead. Clearly, this was no "campaign of extermination".

Even UN Secretary General's report S/5950, para. 142 refutes the Turkish claims of extermination and genocide.

Why let facts get in the way of a good story when TAKSIM is your sole objective?

Moreover, these deaths were a direct result of Britain's documented policy of arming Turkish separatists and encouraging Greco-Turkish conflict to facilitate its control over Cyprus.

The real culprit of GC and TC victims has been identified..

While extremists of both communities are to blame for intercommunal violence, fuelled by British attempts to prevent this overwhelmingly Greek island-nation from achieving its self-determination, history is clear that Turkish extremists initiated the cycle of violence that claimed victims on both sides.

In June of 1958, a bomb explosion outside the information office of the Turkish Consulate-- later shown to have been planted by Turkish extremists (the "TMT")--set off the first intercommunal clashes on Cyprus. As noted by British author Christopher Hitchens in his highly acclaimed work on Cyprus, Hostage to History, the self-proclaimed president of Cyprus' occupation regime, Rauf Denktash, admitted in a 1984 interview that it was a Turkish Cypriot friend who planted the bomb. As a result, "Turkish Cypriots promptly burned out a neighbouring district of Greek shops and homes, in what was to be the first Greek-Turkish physical confrontation on the island. A curfew was imposed, and Greek guerrillas [were] blamed [by British authorities] for the bomb as they were for everything else."

The fact that the TCs were the first to instigate intercommunal violence against the GCs, as a pre-cursor for TAKSIM is well documented.

Next the British released from jail eight Greek Cypriot EOKA fighters, forcing them to walk through the Turkish village of Guenyeli, where they were quickly set upon and murdered. Thus began two months of violence by extremists on both sides, killing 56 Greeks and 53 Turks. Tellingly, the British arrested 2,000 Greeks, but only 60 Turks.

More British crimes against Cyprus and their very clever policy of instigating further destabilising violence through "Divide and Rule".

In addition to the hostile environment that was created by combatants on both sides, there was a second factor that led to the polarization of both communities: with a view toward partition, the Turks withdrew from predominantly Greek areas and evicted Greeks from areas where Turks were in the majority. In a single week over 600 families, two-thirds of them Greek, left their homes, and many Turks who left Greek areas did so under intense pressure from Turkish separatists.

Turkish Cypriots who favoured compromise or a close relationship between the two ethnic communities were targets of TMT violence. Turks caught smoking Greek cigarettes or visiting Greek shops were beaten, and Turkish gangs forced some Turkish Cypriots to resign from Greek Cypriot trade unions. In Limassol, a Turkish Cypriot owner of a restaurant popular with Greeks was threatened and later murdered by the TMT. Two progressive-thinking, London-educated Turkish barristers who spoke against partition were killed outright by these same Turkish gangs.

Turkish extremists forced several thousand Turkish peasants to abandon their farms and animals and move into an overcrowded Turkish enclave in Nicosia. "Thus the aim of partition, camouflaged by Turkish propaganda as `federation,' was relentlessly pursued regardless of loss of human life and the human misery created. However, this so-called `first phase' of the invasion of Cyprus by Turkey only partly succeeded, since well over half of its brethren refused to obey instructions to abandon their homes for the predetermined enclaves" (The Making of Modern Cyprus, Panteli). On December 23, 1963, Turkish gangs also moved through the Armenian quarter of Nicosia and forced the inhabitants at gunpoint to leave their houses, shops, church, school and clubs to make room for more Turks.

http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.html

TCs are then forced into enclaves by separatist TMT terrorists.

TMT terror against TCs was also instrumental at enforcing TCs to withdraw into enclaves in order to facilitate TAKSIM more easily.

The enclaves were mostly created by TMT separatists in order to facilitate TAKSIM, and have far less to do with the exaggerated propaganda by Neo Partitionists that TCs were forced to withdraw into enclaves for protection against the GCs.

[Paphitis]

6 YEARS BEFORE THE TURKISH INVASION N O T O N E S I N G L E T/C LOST HIS /HER LIFE AS A RESULT OF VILOLENCE BT G/CS ,

These nonsense that a killing spree was taking place is just that , nonsense. Not one single T/C killed , attacked maimed or hurt in any way. In 1974 just before the coup and the Turkish invasion , I was in Famagusta on holiday. Witnessed T/Cs coming out of the walled city of Famagusta to attend their daily chores in the RoC controlled areas. There was no violence at that time.

What pure nonsense... Go sell this shit to others, it just won`t do with us. During those 6 years TCs were completely ejected from the government, the constitution of the state was almost completely altered under the auspices of the "doctrine of necessity", an armed GC gang called the "national guard" was formed and operational (in complete contravention to the original constitution) by the GCs and was being harbored by the "RoC" government, TCs were confined into enclaves and those that came out needed to submit to the authority and decisions of a 100% GC government and additionally to the control of GC military and police. Let me also remind you that this is a period when your elected leader Makarios is on official record for stating that he would not move forward with the talks with us unless the option for ENOSIS is explicitly incorporated into the constitution of the RoC in any agreed settlement.

There are virtues which we consider more dear than our lives.

This is from a Turkish source....

“ From what I heard, Turkey in order to manifest the partion of the of the island planned to gather all Cyprus Turks within a region. By placing militia at various points and enforcing these with new conscripts a permanent base of deployment was planned.Paphos was one the the regions planned for such a scope. Smaller villages were to be joined to these stations strengthening their defences against probable Greek attacks. By this way any Greek plans to attack and destroy unprotected villages to spread their cmplete sovereignty over the whole island would be impeded. By time these three regions would spread and integrate paving the way to the partition of the island without going into a major fighting. Details that reached us all indicated to the presence of such a plot.

Whilst all along, the GCs wanted to spread their complete sovereignty over the whole island:

By this way any Greek plans to attack and destroy unprotected villages to spread their cmplete sovereignty over the whole island would be impeded.

TMT also smuggled arms into Kokkina to further their TAKSIM objectives:

“ Erenköy, the first base for the supply of arms to the fighters of Cyprus, was also the first place to be put under alert. All arms and armament in nine underground burials was under voluntary protection. Every depot contained necessary arms that would be necessary for the defence of the village. Alevkaya village had one, Bozdag and Mansura villages 4 and Selcuklu and Erenkoy 1 depot.

He said the Turks had chosen the Mansoura – Kokkina area as a bridgehead for the creation of a Turkish cantomn. In this they were helped by the existence of Turkish Cypriot villages, facilities for the unloading of military material and men from Turkey, and favourable ground.

This Turkish bridgehead was the most important in the island, he said. One of the reasons was that it could be used for the bringing of supplies from the sea.

http://www.yenikibris.org/kitap/ulus/dillirga.htm

So in actual fact, it was a TMT plan all along to withdraw from the RoC Government and withdraw into enclaves in order to make it easier to manifest the partition of Cyprus.

Go back to sleep Murataga.

[Bananiot]

TMT did its job. What about the Greek Cypriots who facilitated TMT? Those that dragged sick people from hospital beds and executed them in cold blood? Was this the proper response to TMT's terror? Didn't we throw the Turkish Cypriots into the warm embrace of TMT, by targetting and murdering ordinary folk that were simply Turkish? The same mentality reigns today, I am afraid, especially in the minds of the most patriotic members of this forum.

[Paphitis]

TMT did its job. What about the Greek Cypriots who facilitated TMT? Those that dragged sick people from hospital beds and executed them in cold blood? Was this the proper response to TMT's terror? Didn't we throw the Turkish Cypriots into the warm embrace of TMT, by targetting and murdering ordinary folk that were simply Turkish? The same mentality reigns today, I am afraid, especially in the minds of the most patriotic members of this forum.

I want dates and credible evidence of this, otherwise your post is not worth one ounce of credibility and I will not tolerate you wasting my time with your inane support of Turkey's invasion based on you opinionated suppositions and tacit betrayal of Cyprus.

So bugger off until you have something credible to present to this debate.

[EPSILON]

Hi -

Presumably under no circumstances would the RoC accept a political settlement that included Turkey as a guarantor power in Cyprus. It also sounds like our TC compatriots are very keen for some kind of guarantor power - or at least someone to stop the bloodthirsty Greek Cypriots from devouring them post settlement.

Are there any realistic proposals that might bridge this gap? I assume that the Brits would not be trusted given their miserable failures in the past. Could a UN force be constituted to enforce and observe a settlement? Or perhaps some kind of an EU force?

NATO is the solution. Cyprus to be a NATO member and British bases to be transformed to NATO bases. So simple. Through NATO Greece/Turkey will be there but they will be controlled by NATO Secretary.

[Bananiot]

I am not going to educate you paphitis. Had you been really interested to get to know what actually happened in Cyprus, you would know that Christofias himself went to the funeral service of Kutlay Erk's father. Arif was taken from his hospital bed in early 1964 and thrown down a well in Makedonitissa after he as shot on the head. Christofias admitted that murders were committed by both sides. Of course no one can stop you from believing that only Turks are capable of committing murder.

P.S. Constantina Zanou may be able to help you, you can even e-mail her.
http://czanou.blogspot.com/2009/05/blog-post_7354.html

[boomerang]

TMT did its job. What about the Greek Cypriots who facilitated TMT? Those that dragged sick people from hospital beds and executed them in cold blood? Was this the proper response to TMT's terror? Didn't we throw the Turkish Cypriots into the warm embrace of TMT, by targetting and murdering ordinary folk that were simply Turkish? The same mentality reigns today, I am afraid, especially in the minds of the most patriotic members of this forum.

What can anyone say to this?..you are a legend Bananiot...a legend in your own mind...

You and others are stuck in a time warp I am afraid...The Cyprus conflict wasn't unique, other countries did the same but they seemed to be over it...like Rwandah for example...and do not tell me Rwandah wasn't worst than our conflict...

An EU country wanting a guarantorship?... Why join the EU in the first place?...if you have no faith in it's objectives...

It's time the tcs come out of the deep sleep and see how everything works within the EU...

The tcs want EU membership, did not contribute anything towards EU membership and it woud have costed a bundle I bet, want the all benefits and at the same time rub salt to the wound by saying we do not trust you EU...it's a good one...

[Paphitis]

I am not going to educate you paphitis. Had you been really interested to get to know what actually happened in Cyprus, you would know that Christofias himself went to the funeral service of Kutlay Erk's father. Arif was taken from his hospital bed in early 1964 and thrown down a well in Makedonitissa after he as shot on the head. Christofias admitted that murders were committed by both sides. Of course no one can stop you from believing that only Turks are capable of committing murder.

P.S. Constantina Zanou may be able to help you, you can even e-mail her.
http://czanou.blogspot.com/2009/05/blog-post_7354.html

And all of this happened after the events I portrayed above.

May the individual concerned rest in peace, but it is of course irrelevant.

So your supposition that TMT "had to do what it had to do" is nothing but utter rubbish. I am sure you can do much better than this Bananiot. Your attempt to prove that the TMT was JUSTIFIED in doing what it needed to do for Taksim has not gone unnoticed. The fact that the TMT used any means against its own people in order for them to withdraw into enclaves so that they can facilitate Taksim is well known.

I refer you to my posts above.

Nice try at defending the TMT's actions Bananiot.

This proves that I was indeed very correct to classify you as a traitor to Cyprus many moons ago.

Phucking hell Bananiot. But if you are a RoC school teacher, then when I move to Cyprus, my kids are going to private schools. All of a sudden I have completely lost all faith in the RoC's education system.