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[Viewpoint]

The TC in order to get the land in the TRNC on which the Orams built had to surrender land in the south to the TRNC and forgoe all rights to it...now do you get it...who knows that land maybe worth millions.

So what does that have to do with the Orams, assuming the arrangement between the TC who sold the GC land and giving the rights to his land in the south to the "trnc", which is not even legal or recognised by the RoC. As far as the RoC is concerned, the TC who sold the GC land to the Orams is still the legal owner of his land in the south. We will not talk about the crimes he had committed according to the RoC laws by selling GC's property in the north, but that is a topic for another day. In short, the Orams are not entitled to anything other than all the punishment they are going through right now and more in the future if they do not obey the courts orders, and the same will be in store for all those in similar situation. But the Orams are welcome to go the land registry in the RoC and demand the land that belongs to the TC who sold them the GC land. But wait a minute, VP, did you just not tell us that that TC land in the south now belongs to the “trnc”, so really, the Orams should be asking the TC land in the south from the “trnc”. Now, that I would really like to see the reaction of the “trnc”. I think all of a sudden, the Orams will no longer be welcomed in the “trnc”. What do you think.???

Lets stop beating around the bush does the TC have a right to his land in the south? which in reality means indirectly the Orams?

Of course the TC have a right to their own land in the south and the ECJ ruling has established that, but I still don't get what this has anything to do with the Orams, since they have Zero rights in buying stolen GC land in the north or claiming any TC land in the south that may belong to the TC who sold them the stolen GC land in the north. The only rights the Orams would have had, would have been if they had bought any land from their legal owners with deeds issues before 1974. Case closed.!

That's where you are so wrong yet again due to your short sightedness, the Orams do not only have a claim against the TC who sold the the land but also the TRNC for providing the deeds which they to today still say they guarantee and in turn the "RoC" for the land in the south which by you own admission is the right of the TC owner which in turn he has agreed to give the rights to the Orams, so in reality not your text book world this case and many others are far from concluded.

Sure the Orams can go after the TC who sold them the stolen GC land and also after the "trnc" for guaranteeing the sale of stolen property. The only problem they will face is, their case will not be heard in the north, no body will be convicted or made to pay any restitution to them in the north. As my old girlfriend would say "if you can't fuck a friend, who can you fuck" and the Orams have just found out, that they have been royally fucked by their friends and the sad part is, they didn't even get to enjoy it.! As far as the Orams having any claim in the south belonging to the TC who sold them the stolen GC land is just a romantic dream of fools, but let them go to the south and make their claim in the RoC courts and watch them get fucked again, but this time by strangers and not by friends.!

You yourself admit the TC has the right to his land in the south, so indirectly the Orams have a claim as well. How they go about this and who fucks who is neither here nor there the Orams can potentially sell land in the south and probably make a pretty penny as well. Whatever the outcome people will be suing one another left right and center and lawyers will be getting even richer.....good thing my child is studying law. If the "RoC" decides to counter sue the TC or not take seriously his claim then they will go to the ECHR things are going to get pretty heated around here the "RoC" will be sued left right and centre hving to defend itself from and onslaught of TC claimants.

PS are you sexually perverted you seem to enjoy linking everything to sex?

No VP. The Orams cannot sell the TCs land in the south until they legally acquire it. So first of all they have to sue in the "trnc" because the ROC does not recognise "exchange" land. If Orams win against the TC they will have to seek enforcement . Somehow I can't see a Judge in the ROC accepting a judgment from a legal system that he does not recognise.

The Orams have no chance of initiating proceedings in the ROC, Mrs O, if I recall, said on TV something to the effect that she knew there was a risk, she would get laughed out of Court in the south. There is a fundamental rule in the law of contract "Caveat Emptor", let the buyer beware. Perhaps you should join your child at law school and, if they have one, take some classes in common sense.

The "RoC" does not recognize any of the land transactions in the TRNC so they cannot refuse to accept the TCs claim for his land so therefore he can show goodwill and proceed to claim his land in the south and then turn around and pass on the proceeds to the Orams? There is nothing the "RoC" can do as they have EU clarification that everyone has a right to their property so they have to abide by it to the letter.

[Viewpoint]

The TC in order to get the land in the TRNC on which the Orams built had to surrender land in the south to the TRNC and forgoe all rights to it...now do you get it...who knows that land maybe worth millions.

So what does that have to do with the Orams, assuming the arrangement between the TC who sold the GC land and giving the rights to his land in the south to the "trnc", which is not even legal or recognised by the RoC. As far as the RoC is concerned, the TC who sold the GC land to the Orams is still the legal owner of his land in the south. We will not talk about the crimes he had committed according to the RoC laws by selling GC's property in the north, but that is a topic for another day. In short, the Orams are not entitled to anything other than all the punishment they are going through right now and more in the future if they do not obey the courts orders, and the same will be in store for all those in similar situation. But the Orams are welcome to go the land registry in the RoC and demand the land that belongs to the TC who sold them the GC land. But wait a minute, VP, did you just not tell us that that TC land in the south now belongs to the “trnc”, so really, the Orams should be asking the TC land in the south from the “trnc”. Now, that I would really like to see the reaction of the “trnc”. I think all of a sudden, the Orams will no longer be welcomed in the “trnc”. What do you think.???

Lets stop beating around the bush does the TC have a right to his land in the south? which in reality means indirectly the Orams?

Of course the TC have a right to their own land in the south and the ECJ ruling has established that, but I still don't get what this has anything to do with the Orams, since they have Zero rights in buying stolen GC land in the north or claiming any TC land in the south that may belong to the TC who sold them the stolen GC land in the north. The only rights the Orams would have had, would have been if they had bought any land from their legal owners with deeds issues before 1974. Case closed.!

That's where you are so wrong yet again due to your short sightedness, the Orams do not only have a claim against the TC who sold the the land but also the TRNC for providing the deeds which they to today still say they guarantee and in turn the "RoC" for the land in the south which by you own admission is the right of the TC owner which in turn he has agreed to give the rights to the Orams, so in reality not your text book world this case and many others are far from concluded.

Sure the Orams can go after the TC who sold them the stolen GC land and also after the "trnc" for guaranteeing the sale of stolen property. The only problem they will face is, their case will not be heard in the north, no body will be convicted or made to pay any restitution to them in the north. As my old girlfriend would say "if you can't fuck a friend, who can you fuck" and the Orams have just found out, that they have been royally fucked by their friends and the sad part is, they didn't even get to enjoy it.! As far as the Orams having any claim in the south belonging to the TC who sold them the stolen GC land is just a romantic dream of fools, but let them go to the south and make their claim in the RoC courts and watch them get fucked again, but this time by strangers and not by friends.!

You yourself admit the TC has the right to his land in the south, so indirectly the Orams have a claim as well. How they go about this and who fucks who is neither here nor there the Orams can potentially sell land in the south and probably make a pretty penny as well. Whatever the outcome people will be suing one another left right and center and lawyers will be getting even richer.....good thing my child is studying law. If the "RoC" decides to counter sue the TC or not take seriously his claim then they will go to the ECHR things are going to get pretty heated around here the "RoC" will be sued left right and centre hving to defend itself from and onslaught of TC claimants.

PS are you sexually perverted you seem to enjoy linking everything to sex?

Why, you got something against sex:???

From the beginning of time the 3 most important aspects of life has been Air, Food and Sex.!!

It has been proven by millions of years to be a very successful combination, or else we would not be here today..!

I also like Food.!

Air is OK too, but without food and sex, what good is air.?

I'm tired beating a dead horse with you over the Orams and their supposed TC land claim in the south.

Answer this one simple question for me. Do the Orams have land in the south under their own names...Yes or No.??

If yes, they can do what ever they want with it.

If NO, then whose land are they going to take without a deed.?

The TC who sold the Orams stolen GC land has his deeds (if he had any and if so, that it was in his name and not one part from a family deed to be shared by all the family, which means that the TC land in the south belongs to all the family of the TC and not just one person, which will need all the family's consent by going through a probate in RoC courts, which also means, that other family members will lose their GC land in the north given to them as an "exchange" by the "trnc"), so is the "trnc" going to give the TC's land deeds to the Orams to claim land in the south. But the TC who sold the GC land to the Orams have committed a crime in doing so and the Orams bought stolen property, which is also a crime, so what makes you think that the Orams and the TC who sold them stolen GC property will be well received in the RoC courts. It is likely that they will all be sent to jail.

There are natural sexual tendancies and then their are perverts like you who can twist and convert a debate about property into people fucking each other...this is pervision and you need to get help to find out the difference.

As to your question about do the Orams having land in the south in their name, no they do not but they have an agreement with a TC that gives them certain rights and if the TCs wants to play ball which the TRNC will make him do, the TC who has property in the south in his name can claim therefore indirectly benefiting the Orams, why do you refuse to see the link?

Your attempt to cloud the issue by introducing inheirted land bears no real impact on this case as we take it that the deeds are in the name of the TC concerned, can the "RoC" deny him is right over his land in the south when they have taken a decision backed by the EU to grant everyone rights to their land all over Cyprus? Is an agreement in the TRNC between 2 individuals and finalized in the TRNC land registry office recognized by the "RoC"? Can you take someone to court for something you do not recognize or in your eyes didnt take place?

[Jerry]

The "RoC" does not recognize any of the land transactions in the TRNC so they cannot refuse to accept the TCs clain for his land so therefore he can show goodwill and proceed to claim his land in the south and then turn around and pass on the prceeds to the Orams? There is nothing the "RoC" can do as they have EU clarification that everyone has a right to their property so they have to abide by it to the letter.

You are right of course, a very nice TC can show goodwill and compensate the Orams for stitching them up by selling his land (if he has any) in the south BUT if he is not a nice TC Orams have little or no chance of winning a court case against him in Cyprus.

[Viewpoint]

The "RoC" does not recognize any of the land transactions in the TRNC so they cannot refuse to accept the TCs clain for his land so therefore he can show goodwill and proceed to claim his land in the south and then turn around and pass on the prceeds to the Orams? There is nothing the "RoC" can do as they have EU clarification that everyone has a right to their property so they have to abide by it to the letter.

You are right of course, a very nice TC can show goodwill and compensate the Orams for stitching them up by selling his land (if he has any) in the south BUT if he is not a nice TC Orams have little or no chance of winning a court case against him in Cyprus.

Jerry the only reason why I say the TC will show goowill is because the deeds are with the TRNC and he will be called upon to do the decent thing or face the consequencies as he has benefited from the sale to the Orams.

[Oracle]

N.B.

The speed at which VP now wants all to think the Orams should go after the "TC"-seller's 'land' in the south reeks of desperation.

Either this "TC" does not have any land in the south (or is a settler) .... and this is the "TRNC"'s way of prolonging the final outcome ...

OR

The guarantee which Soyer gave on behalf of the "TRNC" /Turkey should be legally binding, and the Orams should be going after compensation from the illegal state who gave them assurances and guarantees and not after individuals ...

After all, we know enough about the machinations of Turks to realise they would sell their own mother/daughters ... so this is their "get-out-clause" ... to avoid the "state" compensating the Orams ... Send everyone after the individuals ... i.e.. at worst keep muddying the waters.

What does everyone else think?

This is serious .....

[Floda]

N.B.

The speed at which VP now wants all to think the Orams should go after the "TC"-seller's 'land' in the south reeks of desperation.

Either this "TC" does not have any land in the south (or is a settler) .... and this is the "TRNC"'s way of prolonging the final outcome ...

OR

The guarantee which Soyer gave on behalf of the "TRNC" /Turkey should be legally binding, and the Orams should be going after compensation from the illegal state who gave them assurances and guarantees and not after individuals ...

After all, we know enough about the machinations of Turks to realise they would sell their own mother/daughters ... so this is their "get-out-clause" ... to avoid the "state" compensating the Orams ... Send everyone after the individuals ... i.e.. at worst keep muddying the waters.

What does everyone else think?

This is serious .....

Truly, the issue of receiving compensation for any illegal action should be sourced from those responsible for such action.

If it is proven that the Orams were aware of the fact that they were entering an illegal arrangement (and I doubt if they were acting in complete ignorance) then the question of compensation should be treated with the same contempt as they treated the legal owner of the land upon which they chose to have their property built.

Whether it be the actual developer OR the illegal Turkish government which foots the bill, it should be a matter of indifference to the respectable folk in the RoC. (IMHO)

However, since compassion for the underdog is one of the niceties of being civilised, the whingeing Orams's may gain some sympathy from the land from which they hailed (presumed civilised in SOME areas of the world) and the danger lies in the possibility that the discussions that take place 'Behind the Scenes' will determine the outcome of any questions relating to compensation.

Truly, we know of the 'Machinations' of the Turks, more to the point in this case, do we Truly know the 'Machinations' of those behind the creation of ALL the problems that now beleaguer the land of Cyprus, North OR South ?.

[Oracle]

N.B.

The speed at which VP now wants all to think the Orams should go after the "TC"-seller's 'land' in the south reeks of desperation.

Either this "TC" does not have any land in the south (or is a settler) .... and this is the "TRNC"'s way of prolonging the final outcome ...

OR

The guarantee which Soyer gave on behalf of the "TRNC" /Turkey should be legally binding, and the Orams should be going after compensation from the illegal state who gave them assurances and guarantees and not after individuals ...

After all, we know enough about the machinations of Turks to realise they would sell their own mother/daughters ... so this is their "get-out-clause" ... to avoid the "state" compensating the Orams ... Send everyone after the individuals ... i.e.. at worst keep muddying the waters.

What does everyone else think?

This is serious .....

Truly, the issue of receiving compensation for any illegal action should be sourced from those responsible for such action.

If it is proven that the Orams were aware of the fact that they were entering an illegal arrangement (and I doubt if they were acting in complete ignorance) then the question of compensation should be treated with the same contempt as they treated the legal owner of the land upon which they chose to have their property built.

Whether it be the actual developer OR the illegal Turkish government which foots the bill, it should be a matter of indifference to the respectable folk in the RoC. (IMHO)

However, since compassion for the underdog is one of the niceties of being civilised, the whingeing Orams's may gain some sympathy from the land from which they hailed (presumed civilised in SOME areas of the world) and the danger lies in the possibility that the discussions that take place 'Behind the Scenes' will determine the outcome of any questions relating to compensation.

Truly, we know of the 'Machinations' of the Turks, more to the point in this case, do we Truly know the 'Machinations' of those behind the creation of ALL the problems that now beleaguer the land of Cyprus, North OR South ?.

Do not confuse me with one who cares about the Orams ...

They were pawns of the Turks, but their knowledge and compliance precludes them from sympathy. My wishes are for a practical outcome for the GCs who need to re-gain some control over their homes ... and a burning desire to see the Brits destroy the Turks in a final act of Faustian revenge

[Floda]

N.B.

The speed at which VP now wants all to think the Orams should go after the "TC"-seller's 'land' in the south reeks of desperation.

Either this "TC" does not have any land in the south (or is a settler) .... and this is the "TRNC"'s way of prolonging the final outcome ...

OR

The guarantee which Soyer gave on behalf of the "TRNC" /Turkey should be legally binding, and the Orams should be going after compensation from the illegal state who gave them assurances and guarantees and not after individuals ...

After all, we know enough about the machinations of Turks to realise they would sell their own mother/daughters ... so this is their "get-out-clause" ... to avoid the "state" compensating the Orams ... Send everyone after the individuals ... i.e.. at worst keep muddying the waters.

What does everyone else think?

This is serious .....

Truly, the issue of receiving compensation for any illegal action should be sourced from those responsible for such action.

If it is proven that the Orams were aware of the fact that they were entering an illegal arrangement (and I doubt if they were acting in complete ignorance) then the question of compensation should be treated with the same contempt as they treated the legal owner of the land upon which they chose to have their property built.

Whether it be the actual developer OR the illegal Turkish government which foots the bill, it should be a matter of indifference to the respectable folk in the RoC. (IMHO)

However, since compassion for the underdog is one of the niceties of being civilised, the whingeing Orams's may gain some sympathy from the land from which they hailed (presumed civilised in SOME areas of the world) and the danger lies in the possibility that the discussions that take place 'Behind the Scenes' will determine the outcome of any questions relating to compensation.

Truly, we know of the 'Machinations' of the Turks, more to the point in this case, do we Truly know the 'Machinations' of those behind the creation of ALL the problems that now beleaguer the land of Cyprus, North OR South ?.

Do not confuse me with one who cares about the Orams ...

They were pawns of the Turks, but their knowledge and compliance precludes them from sympathy. My wishes are for a practical outcome for the GCs who need to re-gain some control over their homes ... and a burning desire to see the Brits destroy the Turks in a final act of Faustian revenge

Clearly, in the minds of any reasonable person, ALL dispossessed people should be entitled to return to their lands and properties without hindrance, the Orams have become the 'Yardsticks' for that which is to come.

I personally have no sympathy for their plight since I am of the opinion that they (like a host of others of their ilk) allowed greed to cloud their judgement.

In fact, I am quite surprised at the number of 'Brits' who openly declare that the Turks were justified in taking the action that they did, needless to say that those who do are mostly ensconced in homes purchased in the stolen lands at bargain prices.

Therefore, I would not encourage them to seek the return of their monies, rather, let THEM now suffer the hardships they so gleefully imposed upon the rightful owners of their ill-gotten gains, after all, there are several forms of justice, 'True justice' and Poetic Justice' to make mention of two.

Those that knowingly took advantage of the 'Injustices' perpetrated by the Turks, have disgraced themselves enough already without now turning upon those they so admired when they bought stolen property (regardless of their protestations to the contrary) and joined the legions of those who frowned upon respectable and innocent refugees.

As for the Turks, no need to destroy them, they are doing a great job of destroying themselves, as are (and have) the 'Brits' who nailed their colours to the mast of those they considered to be on the winning side. IMHO.

[Oracle]

N.B.

The speed at which VP now wants all to think the Orams should go after the "TC"-seller's 'land' in the south reeks of desperation.

Either this "TC" does not have any land in the south (or is a settler) .... and this is the "TRNC"'s way of prolonging the final outcome ...

OR

The guarantee which Soyer gave on behalf of the "TRNC" /Turkey should be legally binding, and the Orams should be going after compensation from the illegal state who gave them assurances and guarantees and not after individuals ...

After all, we know enough about the machinations of Turks to realise they would sell their own mother/daughters ... so this is their "get-out-clause" ... to avoid the "state" compensating the Orams ... Send everyone after the individuals ... i.e.. at worst keep muddying the waters.

What does everyone else think?

This is serious .....

Truly, the issue of receiving compensation for any illegal action should be sourced from those responsible for such action.

If it is proven that the Orams were aware of the fact that they were entering an illegal arrangement (and I doubt if they were acting in complete ignorance) then the question of compensation should be treated with the same contempt as they treated the legal owner of the land upon which they chose to have their property built.

Whether it be the actual developer OR the illegal Turkish government which foots the bill, it should be a matter of indifference to the respectable folk in the RoC. (IMHO)

However, since compassion for the underdog is one of the niceties of being civilised, the whingeing Orams's may gain some sympathy from the land from which they hailed (presumed civilised in SOME areas of the world) and the danger lies in the possibility that the discussions that take place 'Behind the Scenes' will determine the outcome of any questions relating to compensation.

Truly, we know of the 'Machinations' of the Turks, more to the point in this case, do we Truly know the 'Machinations' of those behind the creation of ALL the problems that now beleaguer the land of Cyprus, North OR South ?.

Do not confuse me with one who cares about the Orams ...

They were pawns of the Turks, but their knowledge and compliance precludes them from sympathy. My wishes are for a practical outcome for the GCs who need to re-gain some control over their homes ... and a burning desire to see the Brits destroy the Turks in a final act of Faustian revenge

Clearly, in the minds of any reasonable person, ALL dispossessed people should be entitled to return to their lands and properties without hindrance, the Orams have become the 'Yardsticks' for that which is to come.

I personally have no sympathy for their plight since I am of the opinion that they (like a host of others of their ilk) allowed greed to cloud their judgement.

In fact, I am quite surprised at the number of 'Brits' who openly declare that the Turks were justified in taking the action that they did, needless to say that those who do are mostly ensconced in homes purchased in the stolen lands at bargain prices.

Therefore, I would not encourage them to seek the return of their monies, rather, let THEM now suffer the hardships they so gleefully imposed upon the rightful owners of their ill-gotten gains, after all, there are several forms of justice, 'True justice' and Poetic Justice' to make mention of two.

Those that knowingly took advantage of the 'Injustices' perpetrated by the Turks, have disgraced themselves enough already without now turning upon those they so admired when they bought stolen property (regardless of their protestations to the contrary) and joined the legions of those who frowned upon respectable and innocent refugees.

As for the Turks, no need to destroy them, they are doing a great job of destroying themselves, as are (and have) the 'Brits' who nailed their colours to the mast of those they considered to be on the winning side. IMHO.

Oh you are so infuriatingly .... sensible!

[paliometoxo]

i cant find a working link from google or youtube