Cyprus-Forum.com

[RichardB]

Isnt this the worse case scenario? the villa gets demolished and returned to the GC for use as a plot of land in the TRNC and the Orams now sue the "RoC" for the land in the south which maybe very valuable?

Can you for once and for all explain yourself with this idea that the Orams have a right to any land in the south that belongs to a TC as an exchange to a land they bought in the north which was stolen and has a legal owner. Which exact plot of land in the south will they be entitled to, so tell us, or are you once again making worthless propaganda to give some comfort to the morally corrupted who did buy stolen GC land in the north. I don't get it and the more you repeat your statement, the more confused I get. Lets hear your explanation, shall we.!

The TC in order to get the land in the TRNC on which the Orams built had to surrender land in the south to the TRNC and forgoe all rights to it...now do you get it...who knows that land maybe worth millions.

VP

I am sure this has been discussed before but please bear with me

The TC gave his legally owned land to the 'trnc' in exchange for a GCs land in the north.

Did the trnc ask permission from the GC to 'exchange his land'

Now I assume the 'trnc are going to give this land to the GC on a settlement

I understand it so far

But what land were the settlers given? was that TC land as well?

And from what I understand certain others were given land for services rendered to the pseudo government ( the military etc)

Was this also GC land

I am asking these questions because the figures dont seem to add up

In 1974 the GCs owned 60% (1,463,382 donums) of the land in the north and TCs owned 10%(413,177 donums) of land in the south

So can I assume that only 413177 donums of GC land in the north has been given to TC refugees

What of the remaining 1,050,000 donums of GC land in the north what has happened to that ?

You have to look at it from this angle after the TRNC was offically declared in 1983 GC land stopped exsisting and does to this day in TRNC law. All land that was not privately owned by TCs was the under the control of the TRNC who stated that anyone who want land can exchange theirs in the south for land in the north. The other land that was given as favors was done so by the TRNC so they have to be challenged as the GC do not recognize the TRNC then they have to challenge Turkey.

All this suing and counter suing will not resolve the matter it will just make it worse, even now views have hardened and everyone has dug their heels in deeper than ever before, a comprehensive solution is whats necessary. You mark my words no GC will get anything back.........unless a comprehensive solution is found.

So if a comprehensive solution is found then given that the GC will still have the 50% remaining land in the northern area which has not been exchanged and the TC will not have any land in the southern area because that has already been given back to the 10% of GCs whose land they know occupy in the north

How are all the settlers and Brits and other foreign nationals going to fit in alongside the TCs? in only 50% of land in the north of Cyprus, it will be a bit tight wont it ?

Will some have to go home?

[Viewpoint]

Isnt this the worse case scenario? the villa gets demolished and returned to the GC for use as a plot of land in the TRNC and the Orams now sue the "RoC" for the land in the south which maybe very valuable?

Can you for once and for all explain yourself with this idea that the Orams have a right to any land in the south that belongs to a TC as an exchange to a land they bought in the north which was stolen and has a legal owner. Which exact plot of land in the south will they be entitled to, so tell us, or are you once again making worthless propaganda to give some comfort to the morally corrupted who did buy stolen GC land in the north. I don't get it and the more you repeat your statement, the more confused I get. Lets hear your explanation, shall we.!

The TC in order to get the land in the TRNC on which the Orams built had to surrender land in the south to the TRNC and forgoe all rights to it...now do you get it...who knows that land maybe worth millions.

VP

I am sure this has been discussed before but please bear with me

The TC gave his legally owned land to the 'trnc' in exchange for a GCs land in the north.

Did the trnc ask permission from the GC to 'exchange his land'

Now I assume the 'trnc are going to give this land to the GC on a settlement

I understand it so far

But what land were the settlers given? was that TC land as well?

And from what I understand certain others were given land for services rendered to the pseudo government ( the military etc)

Was this also GC land

I am asking these questions because the figures dont seem to add up

In 1974 the GCs owned 60% (1,463,382 donums) of the land in the north and TCs owned 10%(413,177 donums) of land in the south

So can I assume that only 413177 donums of GC land in the north has been given to TC refugees

What of the remaining 1,050,000 donums of GC land in the north what has happened to that ?

You have to look at it from this angle after the TRNC was offically declared in 1983 GC land stopped exsisting and does to this day in TRNC law. All land that was not privately owned by TCs was the under the control of the TRNC who stated that anyone who want land can exchange theirs in the south for land in the north. The other land that was given as favors was done so by the TRNC so they have to be challenged as the GC do not recognize the TRNC then they have to challenge Turkey.

All this suing and counter suing will not resolve the matter it will just make it worse, even now views have hardened and everyone has dug their heels in deeper than ever before, a comprehensive solution is whats necessary. You mark my words no GC will get anything back.........unless a comprehensive solution is found.

So if a comprehensive solution is found then given that the GC will still have the 50% remaining land in the northern area which has not been exchanged and the TC will not have any land in the southern area because that has already been given back to the 10% of GCs whose land they know occupy in the north

How are all the settlers and Brits and other foreign nationals going to fit in alongside the TCs? in only 50% of land in the north of Cyprus, it will be a bit tight wont it ?

Will some have to go home?

This is why finding a solution is difficult but not impossible,if you are asking my opinion the land which has been utilized should be compensated by either offering market prices to the refugee or land in the south or north depending on the wishes of the refugee.

[Jerry]

Isnt this the worse case scenario? the villa gets demolished and returned to the GC for use as a plot of land in the TRNC and the Orams now sue the "RoC" for the land in the south which maybe very valuable?

Can you for once and for all explain yourself with this idea that the Orams have a right to any land in the south that belongs to a TC as an exchange to a land they bought in the north which was stolen and has a legal owner. Which exact plot of land in the south will they be entitled to, so tell us, or are you once again making worthless propaganda to give some comfort to the morally corrupted who did buy stolen GC land in the north. I don't get it and the more you repeat your statement, the more confused I get. Lets hear your explanation, shall we.!

The TC in order to get the land in the TRNC on which the Orams built had to surrender land in the south to the TRNC and forgoe all rights to it...now do you get it...who knows that land maybe worth millions.

VP

I am sure this has been discussed before but please bear with me

The TC gave his legally owned land to the 'trnc' in exchange for a GCs land in the north.

Did the trnc ask permission from the GC to 'exchange his land'

Now I assume the 'trnc are going to give this land to the GC on a settlement

I understand it so far

But what land were the settlers given? was that TC land as well?

And from what I understand certain others were given land for services rendered to the pseudo government ( the military etc)

Was this also GC land

I am asking these questions because the figures dont seem to add up

In 1974 the GCs owned 60% (1,463,382 donums) of the land in the north and TCs owned 10%(413,177 donums) of land in the south

So can I assume that only 413177 donums of GC land in the north has been given to TC refugees

What of the remaining 1,050,000 donums of GC land in the north what has happened to that ?

You have to look at it from this angle after the TRNC was offically declared in 1983 GC land stopped exsisting and does to this day in TRNC law. All land that was not privately owned by TCs was the under the control of the TRNC who stated that anyone who want land can exchange theirs in the south for land in the north. The other land that was given as favors was done so by the TRNC so they have to be challenged as the GC do not recognize the TRNC then they have to challenge Turkey.

All this suing and counter suing will not resolve the matter it will just make it worse, even now views have hardened and everyone has dug their heels in deeper than ever before, a comprehensive solution is whats necessary. You mark my words no GC will get anything back.........unless a comprehensive solution is found.

So if a comprehensive solution is found then given that the GC will still have the 50% remaining land in the northern area which has not been exchanged and the TC will not have any land in the southern area because that has already been given back to the 10% of GCs whose land they know occupy in the north

How are all the settlers and Brits and other foreign nationals going to fit in alongside the TCs? in only 50% of land in the north of Cyprus, it will be a bit tight wont it ?

Will some have to go home?

This is why finding a solution is difficult but not impossible,if you are asking my opinion the land which has been utilized should be compensated by either offering market prices to the refugee or land in the south or north depending on the wishes of the refugee.

Since the "utilised" land is scattered all over the north then according to your logic, apart from Varosha, you will keep 37% of the island. Does it occur to you that YOU have made the solution less achievable, why should the GCs suffer because of your irresponsible selfish acts.

[Oracle]

Cyprus belongs to all future generations of native Cypriots ... no-one will be selling Cyprus to the Turks!

Turks go away ....

[Viewpoint]

Isnt this the worse case scenario? the villa gets demolished and returned to the GC for use as a plot of land in the TRNC and the Orams now sue the "RoC" for the land in the south which maybe very valuable?

Can you for once and for all explain yourself with this idea that the Orams have a right to any land in the south that belongs to a TC as an exchange to a land they bought in the north which was stolen and has a legal owner. Which exact plot of land in the south will they be entitled to, so tell us, or are you once again making worthless propaganda to give some comfort to the morally corrupted who did buy stolen GC land in the north. I don't get it and the more you repeat your statement, the more confused I get. Lets hear your explanation, shall we.!

The TC in order to get the land in the TRNC on which the Orams built had to surrender land in the south to the TRNC and forgoe all rights to it...now do you get it...who knows that land maybe worth millions.

VP

I am sure this has been discussed before but please bear with me

The TC gave his legally owned land to the 'trnc' in exchange for a GCs land in the north.

Did the trnc ask permission from the GC to 'exchange his land'

Now I assume the 'trnc are going to give this land to the GC on a settlement

I understand it so far

But what land were the settlers given? was that TC land as well?

And from what I understand certain others were given land for services rendered to the pseudo government ( the military etc)

Was this also GC land

I am asking these questions because the figures dont seem to add up

In 1974 the GCs owned 60% (1,463,382 donums) of the land in the north and TCs owned 10%(413,177 donums) of land in the south

So can I assume that only 413177 donums of GC land in the north has been given to TC refugees

What of the remaining 1,050,000 donums of GC land in the north what has happened to that ?

You have to look at it from this angle after the TRNC was offically declared in 1983 GC land stopped exsisting and does to this day in TRNC law. All land that was not privately owned by TCs was the under the control of the TRNC who stated that anyone who want land can exchange theirs in the south for land in the north. The other land that was given as favors was done so by the TRNC so they have to be challenged as the GC do not recognize the TRNC then they have to challenge Turkey.

All this suing and counter suing will not resolve the matter it will just make it worse, even now views have hardened and everyone has dug their heels in deeper than ever before, a comprehensive solution is whats necessary. You mark my words no GC will get anything back.........unless a comprehensive solution is found.

So if a comprehensive solution is found then given that the GC will still have the 50% remaining land in the northern area which has not been exchanged and the TC will not have any land in the southern area because that has already been given back to the 10% of GCs whose land they know occupy in the north

How are all the settlers and Brits and other foreign nationals going to fit in alongside the TCs? in only 50% of land in the north of Cyprus, it will be a bit tight wont it ?

Will some have to go home?

This is why finding a solution is difficult but not impossible,if you are asking my opinion the land which has been utilized should be compensated by either offering market prices to the refugee or land in the south or north depending on the wishes of the refugee.

Since the "utilised" land is scattered all over the north then according to your logic, apart from Varosha, you will keep 37% of the island. Does it occur to you that YOU have made the solution less achievable, why should the GCs suffer because of your irresponsible selfish acts.

Not 37% and the right for all to live where ever they wish be it in the north or south state. You seem to conveninetly forget that the Gcs also contributed to the current situation.

[Oracle]

Not 37% and the right for all to live where ever they wish be it in the north or south state. You seem to conveninetly forget that the Gcs also contributed to the current situation.

The current situation is the Turks are somewhere they do not belong, selling stuff that does not belong to them ... and pretty shortly the Turkish thieves, are going to find themselves outlawed! ... And the only way it involves the GCs, is that they will finally have all of Cyprus back and be able to disinfect it free from Turkish contamination...

[denizaksulu]

Isnt this the worse case scenario? the villa gets demolished and returned to the GC for use as a plot of land in the TRNC and the Orams now sue the "RoC" for the land in the south which maybe very valuable?

Can you for once and for all explain yourself with this idea that the Orams have a right to any land in the south that belongs to a TC as an exchange to a land they bought in the north which was stolen and has a legal owner. Which exact plot of land in the south will they be entitled to, so tell us, or are you once again making worthless propaganda to give some comfort to the morally corrupted who did buy stolen GC land in the north. I don't get it and the more you repeat your statement, the more confused I get. Lets hear your explanation, shall we.!

The TC in order to get the land in the TRNC on which the Orams built had to surrender land in the south to the TRNC and forgoe all rights to it...now do you get it...who knows that land maybe worth millions.

Originally that was true VP. Unfortunately things gotout of hand. The Turkish refugees having settled in these properties have later sold them on and still claimed successfully their lands in the south as well. Tell me that these 'double dippers' are not criminals.

Deniz what the GCs are claiming is the GCs have the right to their land in the north bur TCs do not have the right to their land in the soutn until a solution is found, you have to realize these people will disctiminate twist and use every possible avenue to their benefit...dont be so naive. I am tallking about TCs not settlers everyone in the TRNC was warned about buying or developing land bought from settlers.

Sorry VP, I was commenting on what you said about 'esdeger' and 'double dippers'. What you mention above is a different matter.

Deniz tahsis koçan means land without equivelant in the south which is what the settlers and people who were given gifts have. Eşdeğer means something has been surrendered in the south which is what most TCs have.

I did say, recipients of esdeger, also claimed their own properties in the south. I know of some personally. So I am not talking of setlers but TC's. They might have surrendered their Kocans, but nothing has stopped them obtaining new once from the Land Registry of the RoC, in their towns. All they did was to sign a declaration with the Muhtar present and witnessed and Bobs your uncle. Then sell it on to the highest bidder.

[bill cobbett]

The Orams and the TC that sold them the land will sue the "RoC".

Let us know when so we can get the popcorn...

The first issue to be challanged will be the 6 months clause as discrimination between GC and TC.....hopefully this will open the way to reclaiming their properties in the south and doing what they wish with them.

Reh VP, what about the isde .... er ... esdrge .... Icedigger exchange business?

When you say tissys will start reclaiming their lands in the Free Areas, are you admiting that Icedigger was and is a load of pollocks?

[Kikapu]

The TC in order to get the land in the TRNC on which the Orams built had to surrender land in the south to the TRNC and forgoe all rights to it...now do you get it...who knows that land maybe worth millions.

So what does that have to do with the Orams, assuming the arrangement between the TC who sold the GC land and giving the rights to his land in the south to the "trnc", which is not even legal or recognised by the RoC. As far as the RoC is concerned, the TC who sold the GC land to the Orams is still the legal owner of his land in the south. We will not talk about the crimes he had committed according to the RoC laws by selling GC's property in the north, but that is a topic for another day. In short, the Orams are not entitled to anything other than all the punishment they are going through right now and more in the future if they do not obey the courts orders, and the same will be in store for all those in similar situation. But the Orams are welcome to go the land registry in the RoC and demand the land that belongs to the TC who sold them the GC land. But wait a minute, VP, did you just not tell us that that TC land in the south now belongs to the “trnc”, so really, the Orams should be asking the TC land in the south from the “trnc”. Now, that I would really like to see the reaction of the “trnc”. I think all of a sudden, the Orams will no longer be welcomed in the “trnc”. What do you think.???

Lets stop beating around the bush does the TC have a right to his land in the south? which in reality means indirectly the Orams?

Of course the TC have a right to their own land in the south and the ECJ ruling has established that, but I still don't get what this has anything to do with the Orams, since they have Zero rights in buying stolen GC land in the north or claiming any TC land in the south that may belong to the TC who sold them the stolen GC land in the north. The only rights the Orams would have had, would have been if they had bought any land from their legal owners with deeds issues before 1974. Case closed.!

[Oracle]

The TC in order to get the land in the TRNC on which the Orams built had to surrender land in the south to the TRNC and forgoe all rights to it...now do you get it...who knows that land maybe worth millions.

So what does that have to do with the Orams, assuming the arrangement between the TC who sold the GC land and giving the rights to his land in the south to the "trnc", which is not even legal or recognised by the RoC. As far as the RoC is concerned, the TC who sold the GC land to the Orams is still the legal owner of his land in the south. We will not talk about the crimes he had committed according to the RoC laws by selling GC's property in the north, but that is a topic for another day. In short, the Orams are not entitled to anything other than all the punishment they are going through right now and more in the future if they do not obey the courts orders, and the same will be in store for all those in similar situation. But the Orams are welcome to go the land registry in the RoC and demand the land that belongs to the TC who sold them the GC land. But wait a minute, VP, did you just not tell us that that TC land in the south now belongs to the “trnc”, so really, the Orams should be asking the TC land in the south from the “trnc”. Now, that I would really like to see the reaction of the “trnc”. I think all of a sudden, the Orams will no longer be welcomed in the “trnc”. What do you think.???

Lets stop beating around the bush does the TC have a right to his land in the south? which in reality means indirectly the Orams?

Of course the TC have a right to their own land in the south and the ECJ ruling has established that, but I still don't get what this has anything to do with the Orams, since they have Zero rights in buying stolen GC land in the north or claiming any TC land in the south that may belong to the TC who sold them the stolen GC land in the north. The only rights the Orams would have had, would have been if they had bought any land from their legal owners with deeds issues before 1974. Case closed.!

Do you think VP is trying to say; what about the land (if any), which the TC (or Settler) who 'sold' Apostolides' land to the Orams, may own in RoC (or Turkey), being given to the Orams as compensation for this mis-selling? In this way the 'seller' (TC or Settler) is punished; him being an equally responsible / knowing perpetrator in this crime.