Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

I have no great respect for Levent, I made this clear many times. I remind you also that people that "love" Levent, suddenly turn sour towards him and forget him for a while, when this unpredictable chap writes something that is not palatable with them. We have seen this happen repeatedly.

In general, DT, I have no respect for people who target the sentiments of the average man. I prefer clear cut talk without garnish and if our politicians had any sense they would tell us how far our expectations regarding the Cyprob can extend. These are routine predictions in serious countries but, alas, here we depend on hunches, at best, of the professional politicians (who will be looking for a proper job when the Cyprob is solved) who see the demise of Turkey as our only hope. They harbour an unwavering conviction that Turkey will be breaking up in the near future and that we should wait until this happens and we find ourselves in a position of strength. Still, some really disturbed people want us to start a war with Turkey right now, but I ill not go into this because it might get personal (I mean with you DT, because you kept quite, if I remember correctly, when GR made this proposal).

Levent is known to fly in clouds too and if what he proposes appears noble but cannot be implemented, such talk, in the final analysis, only strengthens the ranks of morons and cretins, who can not differentiate between the feasible and the desirable, and thus are likely to burn us again, this time big time.

If you think that I am exaggerating, just look at the responses of these cretins to the EJC decision on the Orams. From across the party spectrum, we heard voices saying that now is the time to denounce the summit agreements and look for a different solution than BBF (so called European). These voices, on the surface, sound very patriotic, but one does not have to be a genius to understand that if our destiny is going to be shaped by these people, we might as well kiss Cyprus goodbye, for good.

[DT.]

I have no great respect for Levent, I made this clear many times. I remind you also that people that "love" Levent, suddenly turn sour towards him and forget him for a while, when this unpredictable chap writes something that is not palatable with them. We have seen this happen repeatedly.

In general, DT, I have no respect for people who target the sentiments of the average man. I prefer clear cut talk without garnish and if our politicians had any sense they would tell us how far our expectations regarding the Cyprob can extend. These are routine predictions in serious countries but, alas, here we depend on hunches, at best, of the professional politicians (who will be looking for a proper job when the Cyprob is solved) who see the demise of Turkey as our only hope. They harbour an unwavering conviction that Turkey will be breaking up in the near future and that we should wait until this happens and we find ourselves in a position of strength. Still, some really disturbed people want us to start a war with Turkey right now, but I ill not go into this because it might get personal (I mean with you DT, because you kept quite, if I remember correctly, when GR made this proposal).

Levent is known to fly in clouds too and if what he proposes appears noble but cannot be implemented, such talk, in the final analysis, only strengthens the ranks of morons and cretins, who can not differentiate between the feasible and the desirable, and thus are likely to burn us again, this time big time.

If you think that I am exaggerating, just look at the responses of these cretins to the EJC decision on the Orams. From across the party spectrum, we heard voices saying that now is the time to denounce the summit agreements and look for a different solution than BBF (so called European). These voices, on the surface, sound very patriotic, but one does not have to be a genius to understand that if our destiny is going to be shaped by these people, we might as well kiss Cyprus goodbye, for good.

That figures, the one man that can and has repeatedly kept the TC's in a state of realism with his articles and you're oppossed to him. God forbid we'd ever find a tc who doesn't demand a confederation or 2 states.

One more thing please Bananiot. WHen Apostolides decided to go to court for his property, what did you advise him as a friend? Where you for or against?

[Get Real!]

In general, DT, I have no respect for people who target the sentiments of the average man.

Your viewpoints are not "average man" Bananiot...

[-mikkie2-]

For the realists and day dreamers amonst us, I think we should take heed of the warnings being given by Alexander Downer when he says that if the current talks lead to failure then Cyprus will have a very dark future.

As far as the GC's are concerned, we cannot have everything as it was pre-1974. Not everyone will be able to return to their former homes overnight and we can't expect to hold on to majority governance over everything.

As far as the TC's are concerned, they cannot expect to keep exploiting the land and property of the refugees ad infinitum and they can't expect to have 50-50 power sharing in everything.

There has to be a compromise solution! If not, the TC's will continue to suffer with more and more settlers pooring into the north and effectively turning the north into a region of Turkey and the TC's effectively being pushed out of the island for good or being completely assimilated in to Turkish society.

The GC's will continue to suffer because we will essentially have the Turkish border running through Cyprus with all the negatives that brings. We will continue to see our history being erased and continue to see our lands being exploited.

Turkey will probably be confined to be in permanent limbo regarding EU membership and the Greece-Turkey-Cyprus triangle will continue to remain unstable. Some future we will all have!

So basically all parties will benefit with a fair solution. Unfortunately, the morons from both sides can't see past the end of their nose!

[halil]

Tomatoes, eggs, rose petals and partition
By Nicos A. Rolandis

FRIDAY, July 31, 1981: Constantinos Mitsotakis, Foreign Minister of Greece, arrives in Cyprus.

He is accompanied by officials, his wife Marika and his daughter Dora. I receive him at Larnaca Airport and the motorcade moves out of the VIP area. All of a sudden, approximately 1,000 persons appear running from the fields towards the motorcade, hurling tomatoes and eggs, mainly against our car in which Mitsotakis rides.
The police intervene, the demonstrators manage to reach the car, they hit its windows with sticks and they try to overturn it. Mr Mitsotakis’ bodyguard, Manousos from Crete, pulls his gun and half opens the window. Mitsotakis, very cool, stops him. I instruct my own policeman, George Christodoulou, who is driving, to move slowly and steadily.

We managed to drive away and after we cleaned the cars, we reached the Hilton in Nicosia. There, at the entrance of the hotel, where the hotel manager was waiting for us, Christos Zacharakis, the Greek Ambassador hurried out of his car, joined us and in a state of shock requested of his minister to transfer him instantly from Cyprus. Mitsotakis called on everybody to calm down.
The sad incident has gone down in history…

Tuesday April 4, 2006, 25 years later: Dora Mitsotakis Bakoyianni, Foreign Minister of Greece, arrives in Cyprus. The bitter memories of 1981 must still be alive. The atmosphere though is replete with rose petals, smiles and warm embraces. The sweet taste goes down in history as well.
Why the difference? Mitsotakis spoke the language of bitter truth, which we Cypriots do not like to hear. He was blunt in his expressions but his views were shared, through milder language, by other Greek leaders as well, including, I believe Dora Bakoyianni. He was also supposed to have said in the past that “Cyprus is the whore of the Mediterranean”, although the phrase was apparently uttered not by himself but by a journalist friend of his. The description was undoubtedly very harsh, even if Cyprus in those years had its beauty on a road show between East and West, with a definite inclination toward the Soviets.

The tragic political game between Greek and Cypriot politicians goes deep back in time and is reflected, in a symbolic manner, in the tomatoes, eggs and rose petals incidents. It has been a love-hate story which was almost always characterised by lack of political courage, a situation which eventually caused the division and the decline and fall of this country; a country which 55 years ago had the best potentials to prosper.

A brief description of the main disputes between the Greek and the Cypriot leaderships might be useful for the future:

1. In 1950 the Greek Cypriots overwhelmingly (96 per cent) decided by referendum that Cyprus should be united with Greece. The prime Minister of Greece Nicolaos Plastiras, however, declined to meet a very high level delegation from Cyprus, which was going to hand over to him the official results of the referendum.
2. In 1953, Makarios exercised pressure for a recourse to the United Nations. Greek Prime Minister Papagos disagreed. As a result of new pressures a recourse was eventually filed by Greece, which resulted in failure.
3. 1955: The EOKA struggle, during which heroism had reached its peak. However, there was no political planning at all. Greece had distanced itself because of disagreements. Prime Minister Papagos had called the struggle “premature”. The consul of Greece in Cyprus, Angelos Vlahos, referred to “blackmail by the Cypriots and to a total ignorance of international expediencies”.

4. 1956: The Harding Proposals which were positive for Cyprus. The advice of Prime Minister Constantinos Karamanlis and Foreign Minister Sp. Theotokis was that we should not reject the proposals. We were seeking improvements and we rejected the proposals.

5. 1960-63: The initial objectives of the 1955-59 struggle were not implemented. The Republic of Cyprus was established in 1960. In 1963, however, we tried unsuccessfully to interfere with the constitutional order through the “13 points” of Makarios. Greece had admonished us not to do it. We did not listen. Cyprus went down the precipice.

6. 1964-1967: Complete lack of communication between Cyprus and Greece. Prime Minister Georgios Papandreou, irritated, writes to Makarios in February 1964: “The Greek Cypriots decide to use force without our knowledge. We learn about your initiatives from the international press.”

7. Summer 1964: The Acheson Plan No. 2. Prime Minister Georgios Papandreou accepts it. Makarios rejects it. Papandreou says figuratively that “a condominium was offered to us on condition that we should accept to lease the penthouse but we rejected the proposal”.
8. 1964-65: We try to get Soviet missiles into Cyprus. Greece disagrees. The whole effort falls apart. The missiles end up in Egypt.

9. 1974: The Greek junta in an all-out confrontation with Makarios proceeds with the coup d’état. Makarios in his speech before the Security Council on July 19, 1974 refers to a Greek invasion against Cyprus.

10. November 30, 1974: After the Turkish invasion, Makarios, Kyprianou and Papadopoulos rejected an excellent opportunity for a bi-regional federation which was supported by Greece and by Glafcos Clerides.

11. 1975: A new attempt to import Soviet missiles into Cyprus took place without the knowledge of Greece. The Soviets eventually refused to supply them.
12. 1978: Anglo-American-Canadian plan: Prime Minister Karamanlis and Foreign Minister G. Rallis were in favour. Cyprus rejected it.

13. 1979-81: Continuous skirmishes between Greece and Cyprus, because Cyprus had been drugging her feet. The opportunities of the Gobbi map (1981) and the Indicators (1983) were lost. The eggs and tomatoes were related to the strained situation.

14. January 1985: The Consolidated Documents of Perez de Cuellar. Prime Minister Andreas Papandreou anticipated a positive approach by us. Kyprianou rejected the initiative in New York. Papandreou would not answer for 10 days the persistent telephone calls of Kyprianou.
15. 1992-93: The Set of Ideas of Boutros Ghali: Greece and George Vassiliou were in favour. The initiative was rejected in 1993.
16. 2004: Referendum for the Annan plan: Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis stated that “the positive elements outweighed the negative ones”. George Papandreou (PASOK leader) was clearly in favour. Tassos Papadopoulos was shedding tears. Demetris Christofias was targeting one direction but he moved to another. The plan was demonised and rejected.

So, slowly but steadily, over a span of 55 turbulent years, the majority of the Greek Cypriots, in accordance with a Cyprus Broadcasting Corporation recent poll, voted that partition is the best solution. The poll also shows that the supporters of partition have tremendously increased during the past two years. The Greek Cypriots apparently consider (based on the mentality of the incumbent government) as unacceptable all the plans for a united Cyprus which have been proposed so far, because our criteria for the evaluation of these plans do not include our own faults, omissions and sins. We are searching for a solution where no solution exists.
So we opt for partition… We shall thus rid poet Nese Yasin of her tragic dilemma: She wrote “My country has been divided into two parts; which part should I love?” It appears that the answer of the average well living Cypriot, who ignores the 11,000-year history and the long-term interests of this country and who approves by a 60 per cent margin the Papadopoulos policy on Cyprus, because apparently he believes that this policy will lead to partition, is: “Each side should love its own part”. Have you heard this answer, Demetris Christofias?

NICOS A. ROLANDIS
POLITICAL BUREAU



Tel: +357 22 353811/2, Fax:+357 22 353100, P.O. Box 21700 – 1508 Nicosia. Email: [email protected]

CYPRUS MAIL 30/04/2006

[DT.]

Halil,

why are you posting 3 year old articles from a man that holds no sway or office in Cyprus?

For once can you post something F*****G relevant?????

[halil]

Halil,

why are you posting 3 year old articles from a man that holds no sway or office in Cyprus?

For once can you post something F*****G relevant?????

just remind about past !!!!!

He is my Sener Levent ..... He tells truth as well !

[halil]

here is the new one for u.....

The twilight zone

Will Greek Cypriots go down in history as the people who used improvement after improvement to destroy their cause?

Comment
Nicos Rolandis

THE Cyprus problem, even if some people do not realise it, is now hovering in a volatile, vague and dangerous twilight zone. It is gradually reaching the point of sunset.

The Greek Cypriots are satisfied because the Annan Plan was given a final coup de grace. They revel in exactly the same way in which they rejoiced when all opportunities accorded to Cyprus over the past 46 years to move forward were scuttled. The tragic element though is that today, as a result of the referendum and of their improved finances, many Turkish Cypriots are changing their mind as well and they are rejoicing with us. Partition, which Rauf Denktash was preaching for so many years, becomes gradually convenient to all sides.

I recal a wise remark made in 1979 by Constantinos Karamanlis, prime minister of Greece, during a lunch at his modest apartment at Herod Atticus street in Athens. “When the EOKA struggle started in 1955,” Karamanlis said “we were targeting union of Cyprus with Greece, while the Turks were targeting partition. It appears that at the end of the day the Turks will have their way.” Present at the lunch were President Kyprianou, Foreign Minister of Greece G. Rallis, ambassador Dimos Hadjimiltis and myself.
Karamanlis was not sanguine about developments. He was well conversant with the events of the past and he could assess the future. The agreements of 1959-1960 were signed both by him and Makarios. Soon after however, the Treaty, through which the Republic of Cyprus was established and the Constitution ensued, were vilified and demonised (like the Annan Plan) and there was an attempt in 1963 - against the advice of the Greek government - to amend the Constitution through the so called “13 points of Makarios”, who was supported by 97 per cent of Greek Cypriots (a much higher percentage than the 76 per cent that voted against the Annan Plan two years ago). However, instead of the intended reversal of the provisions of the Constitution, we brought the Republic of Cyprus upside down. The “13 points” would divest the Turkish Cypriots of the benefits they had acquired through the 1960 Constitution. The outcome should therefore be easily anticipated. Unfortunately the Council of Ministers at that time (the “Children’s Choir” as Nicosia Mayor Themistoclis Dervis had aptly described it) did not manage to evaluate the situation correctly. After all, Children’s Choirs are there for children’s songs, not for politics.

Tassos Papadopoulos, who was a minister at the time, confessed last year that in those days he was against the Zurich-London Agreements. He further said that nowadays, 45 years later, he realises that the Agreements were not so bad after all. It should be therefore probable that in the year 2050, many people may reach the conclusion that the Annan Plan might constitute a solution.

Karamanlis knew all the tragic details and all the impermissible errors from 1963 to the 1974 coup d’etat, which cleared the way for the Turkish invasion. He also knew that Makarios ultimately realised that through an inflexible attitude we might lose the whole of Cyprus. He therefore signed on February 12, 1977 the Makarios-Denktash Agreement, a pragmatic accord which reflected the blunt realities. He also knew that after Makarios passed away and Kyprianou was elected President, he tried to “improve” the contents of the 1977 Agreement through a new Agreement of his own (the Kyprianou – Denktash Agreement of 1979).

Since then in Cyprus one “ improvement” followed the other. Perhaps Greek Cypriots will be remembered in history as the champions in the field of “improvements”, which resulted in a continuous deterioration of their own cause.

“Improvement” after “improvement”… we reached the Annan Plan, which we also rejected. A new series of “improvements” followed thereafter…

Hundreds of buildings were erected on our properties in the north. Cyprus was inundated with a new wave of settlers. We reached the anteroom of partition. We also had the “Paris Meeting”, which we advertised as something similar to the Yalta Conference of 1945. The tragic outcome of the meeting is that nobody really knows what was agreed. The United Nations, the Cyprus government and the Turkish Cypriots have their own different versions. Otherwise the meeting was very successful…

How did I get back to Constatinos Karamanlis, the Constitution of 1960 and the Twilight Zone? I saw President Papadopoulos the other day addressing the students of the School of Philosophy at the Athens University and the Rector of the University (who appeared to be mesmerised) explaining to them that, had we accepted the Annan Plan, we would have been unable to function in Brussels, because in case of conflict with the Turkish Cypriots, we would need a decision of the Supreme Court before we could proceed. Based on this logic however, even if we had a solution, under the best of circumstances for us, based on the 1960 Constitution, Article 46(d) of which provides that the Turkish Cypriot Vice President has the right of final veto on matters of foreign affairs, how would we operate in Brussels? Wouldn’t we have the same “problem” (as the President perceives it?)

It appears therefore that once again the President does not favour the provisions of the 1960 Constitution. He does not accept the fundamental rights of the Turkish Cypriots. He wants to be the one to decide. Otherwise while the Twilight Zone surrounds us we work constructively for a solution “which must be well prepared, agreed, functional and without asphyxiating timeframes” as the song goes. May God help us.
NICOS A. ROLANDIS
POLITICAL BUREAU

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2009

[DT.]

Halil,

why are you posting 3 year old articles from a man that holds no sway or office in Cyprus?

For once can you post something F*****G relevant?????

just remind about past !!!!!

He is my Sener Levent ..... He tells truth as well !

The truth about what Halil? All he says here is that we disagree with Greece on many things. Had you done the same now and then you might not have been in the shit you are now.

[T_C]

For the realists and day dreamers amonst us, I think we should take heed of the warnings being given by Alexander Downer when he says that if the current talks lead to failure then Cyprus will have a very dark future.

As far as the GC's are concerned, we cannot have everything as it was pre-1974. Not everyone will be able to return to their former homes overnight and we can't expect to hold on to majority governance over everything.

As far as the TC's are concerned, they cannot expect to keep exploiting the land and property of the refugees ad infinitum and they can't expect to have 50-50 power sharing in everything.

There has to be a compromise solution! If not, the TC's will continue to suffer with more and more settlers pooring into the north and effectively turning the north into a region of Turkey and the TC's effectively being pushed out of the island for good or being completely assimilated in to Turkish society.

The GC's will continue to suffer because we will essentially have the Turkish border running through Cyprus with all the negatives that brings. We will continue to see our history being erased and continue to see our lands being exploited.

Turkey will probably be confined to be in permanent limbo regarding EU membership and the Greece-Turkey-Cyprus triangle will continue to remain unstable. Some future we will all have!

So basically all parties will benefit with a fair solution. Unfortunately, the morons from both sides can't see past the end of their nose!

I totally agree! The TCs have to realise that those refugees are in the same position as themselves! At the moment they see GCs as highly privileged and not worthy of compromise, but those refugees are as good as embargoed...from their homes!

GCs have to realise what serious situation they are in, that the country is divided, and how much worse it will get without a solution...and act accordingly, hopefully without the patriotic jargon.

I'm so fed up of all this bullshit!