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Varosa built on Evkaf land

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby bill cobbett » Sun May 17, 2009 12:53 am

YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
anna-sh wrote:Image


well said oracle.


Well these two-headed Turks (read TCs :roll: ) one minute they are secular ... next minute, they want all this supposedly religiously significant land ... the common denominator, of course, being they only want LAND ... and MORE ... LAND. :roll:

Phooking Turks!

Are you suggesting that because the TCs are secular, they do not deserve the Efkaf lands, so it should be left to the GCs?
Have you gone completely mental?


Either you are with God or against God :roll: ... You cannot claim land for religious purposes when you pretend to be secular.

You pretend to be Cypriot to steal Cypriot land and you pretend to be Efkatish to steal Cypriot land ....

All in all you just want to steal Cypriot land!

So phoook fof stealing Turks!

Let me explain it to you. When on the Kochan it says Mehmet, Huseyin, Osman, Efkaf etc. That is a TC land. Not stolen. When it says Mihail, Petros Andreas and GO Church, it is GC land. That is the basis of working out what is owend by who.
There are no Phurkers or Gurkas in Cyprus. Only Turkers and Greekers.
Koylu milletin efendisidir. K Ataturk.


Reh Fredousidaroboulla, what's with the bad language? Aman se tho, tha bleeno don stoma sou, meh doh aceed reh.
Last edited by bill cobbett on Sun May 17, 2009 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Oracle » Sun May 17, 2009 12:53 am

denizaksulu wrote:
Oracle wrote:Since TCs claim to be "secular" ... I claim all land set-aside for Mosques etc. ...... as common land!

Go on Phooking TCs ... admit you are Phooking Muslims!



Oracle dear, please find out the purpose of the setting up of the Vakf. After the care of religious buildings there was another function. Guess or find out what it was. Then you can relax.


It's high time the Turks left ... they have run out of "sensible" excuses for being here ....
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Postby Kifeas » Sun May 17, 2009 12:54 am

YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
YFred wrote:
Oracle wrote:
anna-sh wrote:Image


well said oracle.


Well these two-headed Turks (read TCs :roll: ) one minute they are secular ... next minute, they want all this supposedly religiously significant land ... the common denominator, of course, being they only want LAND ... and MORE ... LAND. :roll:

Phooking Turks!

Are you suggesting that because the TCs are secular, they do not deserve the Efkaf lands, so it should be left to the GCs?
Have you gone completely mental?


Either you are with God or against God :roll: ... You cannot claim land for religious purposes when you pretend to be secular.

You pretend to be Cypriot to steal Cypriot land and you pretend to be Efkatish to steal Cypriot land ....

All in all you just want to steal Cypriot land!

So phoook fof stealing Turks!

Let me explain it to you. When on the Kochan it says Mehmet, Huseyin, Osman, Efkaf etc. That is a TC land. Not stolen. When it says Mihail, Petros Andreas and GO Church, it is GC land. That is the basis of working out what is owend by who.
There are no Phurkers or Gurkas in Cyprus. Only Turkers and Greekers.
Koylu milletin efendisidir. K Ataturk.


YFred, form the moment you will discover and comprehend that Mustafa Kemal is not the source of wisdom –set aside all or most of it, you will start making a slightly more sense than you currently do!
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Postby denizaksulu » Sun May 17, 2009 1:28 am

Oracle wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
Oracle wrote:Since TCs claim to be "secular" ... I claim all land set-aside for Mosques etc. ...... as common land!

Go on Phooking TCs ... admit you are Phooking Muslims!



Oracle dear, please find out the purpose of the setting up of the Vakf. After the care of religious buildings there was another function. Guess or find out what it was. Then you can relax.


It's high time the Turks left ... they have run out of "sensible" excuses for being here ....



There are good TC in Cyprus. Why should they leave their ancestral homes. Two wrongs will not make it right. Stop painting all TCs with the same brush.
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Postby bill cobbett » Sun May 17, 2009 2:10 am

Methinks it's outrageous that Halil has posted the most extreme claim that Occupied Amochostos doesn't belong to the some 30,000 good citizens of the town who were thrown out of the town at gunpoint and who saw their "jewel of the Med" looted and raped and who have been kept from their homes this past 35 years.

It's doubly regretable that this Propagandist shite has been posted in this provacative way cos this sort of post with the two or three line threat at the end of the OP will always bring out the worst in all of us.

If, as I suspect, it's a reaction to the ECJ judgement, then Halil and the rest of the Partitionist Fascists are clutching at straws cos the truths of this matter are that Varosi belongs to the Varisiotes and, as has been posted above, there may well be some (small parcels?) of legitimate Evkaf land on the RoC register but to claim that V is built on Efgaf land is reactionary Partitionist pollocks.
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Postby Paphitis » Sun May 17, 2009 6:12 am

Get Real! wrote:
Kifeas wrote:“Get Real,” I can assure you the last thing I care is to play anything with you, set aside what you suggested! The only thing I did was to correct the nonsense you and Paphitis keep repeating, namely that there is no such a thing as Evkaf land or properties in Cyprus, simply because the truth is that there is such land registered in the RoC land registry, even now as we speak! Now, if the case is as you describe it, i.e. that they are all in fact stolen properties, then you need to also explain to us why the British did not take all of the Evkaf properties with the law they passed in 1944, and instead only a portion of it. Furthermore, you need to explain to us why the RoC continues to this day to recognize the properties under Evkaf's name, as they were registered in the Land Registry it inherited from the British in 1960, if they were all stolen by the Ottomans properties. Is the RoC covering up theft too?

Since you claim you have researched the matter, would you care tell and enlighten us how the Ottomans stole and then justified their theft, and also what this 1944 British "immovable property law" says? Can you also explain to us, since you have researched the matter, what the status of property ownership in Cyprus was in 1571, when the Ottoman invaded? Can you also explain how the GO Church of Cyprus became the single biggest land owner in Cyprus? Can you please be specific and with quotes and sources if possible, so as to avoid being blamed by me or anybody else that you do not know what you are saying, and instead talk out of your bottom or make up things as you go?

“Efkav” was Ottoman-CONFISCATED Cypriot land throughout the island, supposedly “set aside for Allah” but in reality it was being commercially exploited to the max by the corrupt and oppressive Ottoman community, at the expense of Cypriots.

Ever since the 1944 "Immovable Property Law” came into force, most of this stolen land was returned to the rightful indigenous Cypriots over successive counter-confiscations conducted by the British (thank you) so what the hell do you think is left of “Efkav land” today? Not much…

It’s the surrounding back yards of Mosques, Muslim cemeteries, and other special religious places like that of Tekke, etc. Big deal!


And all of that would be registered in the legitimate Land Registry of the RoC in which case there is no issue.

However, Y-Front's suppositions that the issue of Efkav Land is going to be re-visited in order to lay claim over lands which they do not own, or to justify the 70-30 BBF land distribution people talk about or them occupying 36% of RoC territory is just "pie in the sky".

Kifeas, you are highly out of order and completely off track. The title of this thread is "Varosha built on Efkav Land", and this can only mean they now seek justification for holding "The Ghost City".
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Postby halil » Sun May 17, 2009 9:19 am

To get more idea about Property claims in Cyprus better to study below report ..... report was publish in 2006 . under the name of The Politics of Property in Cyprus

Institutt for fredsforskning
International Peace Research Institute, Oslo (PRIO)
Hausmanns gate 7, NO-0186 OSLO, Norway
Tel. +47 22 54 77 00
Fax +47 22 54 77 01
E-mail: [email protected]
Web: www.prio.no

SUMMARY

PROPERTY ISSUE is perhaps the most complex and contentious aspect of the Cyprus problem, owing to numerous and diverse legal, economic and social complexities. Most important, however, is the political significance the two Cypriot sides attach to it. This is manifested in the way in which the issue is vitally linked with two basic parameters for any prospective settlement, namely, ‘bizonality’ in the case of Turkish Cypriots and ‘respect for human rights’ in the case of Greek Cypriots. Bizonality and respect for human rights are principles ostensibly agreed by both sides. However, as shown in this report, a common interpretation of these principles is seriously lacking, an important factor that makes the property issue very difficult to solve. This report is an attempt to understand the deeper political and normative concerns that inform as well as help to sustain the two sides’ official positions regarding the property issue. To this end, we examine Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot perspectives on the issue and the opinions of the two communities on how it should be resolved.
At the outset, some facts and figures are provided. These reveal the extent of the difficulties connected with the property issue, including the considerable difference between the two sides’ figures for Greek Cypriot- and Turkish Cypriot-owned land. For example, while the Greek Cypriot side estimates the 1974 figure for Greek Cypriot-owned land in the present Turkish Cypriot-controlled north at 78.5% of all privately owned land in that area, the Turkish Cypriot side estimates this at 63.8%. Similarly, the Turkish Cypriot estimates for Turkish Cypriot-owned private land in 1974 on both sides of the island (which are 33% of all private land in the north and 22% in the south) are considerably higher than those provided by the Greek Cypriot side (which are 21.1% in the north and 13.9% in the south).
The Greek Cypriots maintain that the property issue is essentially a matter of human rights violation, and therefore can only be resolved by implementing ‘the fundamental principle of respect for human rights’. They interpret this to mean giving all displaced persons unrestricted rights to repossess and return to their former homes and properties, irrespective, in particular, of any bizonal arrangements. The Turkish Cypriots, on the other hand, insist that this contradicts ‘the fundamental principle of bizonality’. While accepting the principle of respect for human rights, they demand restrictions on the exercise of rights to property and return by displaced persons insofar as is necessary to preserve and protect bizonality. This, in their view, entails preserving as much as possible the present pattern of settlement. Hence, the Turkish Cypriot preference for a ‘global exchange and compensation’ formula for settlement of property claims.
This report studies the link between the two sides’ divergent positions on property and their perspectives on the nature of the Cyprus problem. A particularly useful lead here is the contrast between Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot views on how the 1974 Turkish military operation and the ensuing state of affairs should be perceived.
The Turkish Cypriots generally see the events of July 1974 as marking a turning point in the Cyprus problem and particularly in their struggle – from 1963 onwards – against being reduced to second-class citizens in a Greek-dominated state. They regard the present de facto situation as bizonality virtually realized. All that is needed is the return of some territory to the Greek Cypriot side. This division of the island is considered by the Turkish Cypriots as the only solution that guarantees their security – including economic security – and freedom in the face of an apparently unremitting Greek Cypriot determination to dominate the island. One factor has played a crucial role in justifying and strengthening the Turkish Cypriot conviction of what the established principle of bizonality stands for and how this principle affects the property issue: this is the Turkish Cypriot interpretation of the 1975 Vienna Agreement as an agreement for the population exchange of Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots between the north and the south of the dividing line. We argue, in this report, that the Turkish Cypriot side’s reading of the agreement has been one-sided and misguided.
The Greek Cypriots, however, generally consider the events of 1974 as marking the beginning of the Cyprus problem, which they see as a problem of ‘invasion and occupation by Turkey of one-third of our country’. The Greek Cypriot side objects to the Turkish Cypriot understanding of bizonality, the key feature of which is the creation of a Turkish Cypriot zone in the northern part of the island. Most Greek Cypriots find this painful, because, among other things, they see it as the eradication in the north of all that is historically ‘Greek’ and believe it to be part of what they regard as Turkey’s ‘expansionist designs’ aimed ultimately at changing the primordially Greek character of Cyprus into a Turkish one. Therefore, the goal is a solution that will essentially reverse the faits accomplis resulting from this assumed Turkish strategy. This is the context in which Greek Cypriots demand absolute restoration of the fundamental principle of respect for human rights as the only possible way to settle the issue of displaced persons’ property claims and their return to ‘the ancestral lands’. This is a demand that goes beyond individual rights: it also crucially concerns collective rights, especially ‘the right of Cypriot Hellenism to the ancestral lands’. This has led many on the Greek Cypriot side inaccurately to perceive the European Court of Human Rights’ judgments on Cypriot property-related cases against Turkey as effective recognition of such a collective right.
Included in the final part of the report is a brief review of the Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot reactions to the Annan Plan property proposals.
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Postby halil » Sun May 17, 2009 9:22 am

The report’s conclusion is that the two sides’ views on the property issue diverge primarily because of their incompatible preoccupations with the principles of bizonality and respect for human rights – an incompatibility that itself is rooted in their irreconcilable, indeed mutually exclusive, perspectives on the Cyprus problem.
The political implication of this conclusion is to be found within the larger argument that the only possible mutually agreed solution to the problem is a compromise between the two positions. So far, each side’s approach to the principles of bizonality and respect for human rights has been one-sided and categorical, being primarily informed by that side’s very different experience of the island’s recent traumatic past. To achieve a compromise, what seems to be most needed is a fresh, more flexible and forward-looking reconsideration by both sides of how to understand these two basic principles.
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Postby halil » Sun May 17, 2009 9:24 am

SERIOUS DISPUTES OVER PROPERTY OWNERSHIP have existed in Cyprus since at least the beginning of the Cyprus problem in the early 1960s. In 1972, Richard Patrick pointed out that ‘the matter of land ownership is most sensitive because of its significance in any future geopolitical settlement’. He also noted how, at that time, ‘current claims and counter claims are difficult to verify because [among other things] neither community is willing to open its land registration books to an impartial audit’.1 The controversy over land ownership, of course, has not only remained unresolved but, with the island’s division in 1974, grown dramatically in both scale and complexity.
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Postby halil » Sun May 17, 2009 9:27 am

1 Richard Patrick, ‘A General System Theory Approach to Geopolitical Aspects of Conflict Between Communities with Particular Reference to Cyprus Since 1960’, 1972 doctoral dissertation published in Political Geography and the Cyprus Conflict: 1963–1971, ed. James H. Bater & Richard Preston (Ontario: Department of Geography Publications, University of Waterloo, 1976), p. 15.
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