Cyprus-Forum.com

[The Cypriot]

Again u are only thinking one side of the story .
all the actors must be front of the justice. Turkey's army involeved in Cyprus from the morning of 20 July .
Break away of ROC started in 21st December 1963 . Who were the those criminals . To be serious we must bring all the parties . we must begin from 1963 , Than i can with u .

I only look at things from a Cypriot perspective, thanks Halil. I don't believe in sides. This isn't a football match where there must be a winner and a loser; this is an island we're trying to reunite and bring peace to.

There have been unpunished criminal acts committed in Cyprus in the past, from the time of British rule, and I agree that all perpetrators should be brought to justice, regardless of which paramilitary group they were acting on behalf (or otherwise) and regardless of whichever ethnic/religious background they identify with...

However, this isn't the issue here. The issue is the future and how we can expect Cypriots, as a whole, to trust Turkey's army to be a guarantor of security – acting in a professional capacity – when the unspeakable atrocities that were committed in the name of a 'peace operation' in 1974 (and beyond) have gone entirely unpunished?

Can't you see why there is no confidence? Can't you see why there is a problem? Can't you see this will get us nowhere? It's madness. And if it's genuinely security you're after you have to find another way because the majority of Cypriots will never feel secure if Turkey's army has intervention rights.

[bill cobbett]

"Peace" Operation = Rape, Torture, Murder = Piss Operation

Future Jurkish Interference = "Puss Off!"

[halil]

Again u are only thinking one side of the story .
all the actors must be front of the justice. Turkey's army involeved in Cyprus from the morning of 20 July .
Break away of ROC started in 21st December 1963 . Who were the those criminals . To be serious we must bring all the parties . we must begin from 1963 , Than i can with u .

I only look at things from a Cypriot perspective, thanks Halil. I don't believe in sides. This isn't a football match where there must be a winner and a loser; this is an island we're trying to reunite and bring peace to.

There have been unpunished criminal acts committed in Cyprus in the past, from the time of British rule, and I agree that all perpetrators should be brought to justice, regardless of which paramilitary group they were acting on behalf (or otherwise) and regardless of whichever ethnic/religious background they identify with...

However, this isn't the issue here. The issue is the future and how we can expect Cypriots, as a whole, to trust Turkey's army to be a guarantor of security – acting in a professional capacity – when the unspeakable atrocities that were committed in the name of a 'peace operation' in 1974 (and beyond) have gone entirely unpunished?

Can't you see why there is no confidence? Can't you see why there is a problem? Can't you see this will get us nowhere? It's madness. And if it's genuinely security you're after you have to find another way because the majority of Cypriots will never feel secure if Turkey's army has intervention rights.

What do u mean u are looking from the Cypriots Persfective . Do u think Turkish Cypriots are not Cypriot. If there .... u have to take their considerations too.U don't trust the Turkish army it is ok from your side of the view .How about the TC's perspectives and worries .Which they had tree times these expriencies (1963-1967 -1974) we can not count them as a nil .

We always hear from your side Turkey ... this and that .... But u never wanting to talk about what was happened before 1974 . From one of these reasones our people are not trusting any solution in Cyprus without Turkey's gurantees.

Thats what the people of TC are saying :
Turkish Cypriot Side has been negotiating with the Greek Cypriot Side with the objective of bringing about a comprehensive agreement which will be based on the political equality of two founding states, with Turkey’s active and effective guarantee and which would not dilute the principle of bi-zonality.

[insan]

Under the hostile circumstances of 1974; the ones who died during the combat and others who atrociously had been killed by paramilitary groups or individuals bcz of anger, hatred and revenge feelings must not be confused with each other.

Had Turkey/TC side not proposed exchange of populations into 2 safe zones more blood would have been shed from both sides.

Let's assume Turkey/TC side hadn't proposed exchange of populations into 2 safe zones... What would have happened? EOKA-B would have waged a guerilla warfare against all other troops in Cyprus.

Let's assume guerilla warfare of EOKA-B had lasted 1 year costed loss of 2000 civilians and 3000 soldiers then remaining 150 EOKA-B guerillas surendered...

Then what would have happened? Cypriots would have applauded and embraced Turkish army and proclaim her the best ally of Cyprus? What abt political equality issue? It would genuinely have been accepted by overwhelming majority of GCs?

[paliometoxo]

If Turkey will only accept a solution with Turkish guarantees, Greek Cypriots could request equivalent guarantees from GREECE . Is that the solution to the problem or is it stalemate once again.

Or do we just continue as we are for another 400 years or so ...... !!!

why what good will having any of them as a garantore power?

[Kikapu]

TC's are asking guarantees of Turkey .... who cares what relation EU and Turkey has got between themself .
Majority of the Turkish Cypriots feels better and secure with Turkey's guarantees .For Turkish Cypriots wanting to join EU does not mean that their security will be ok .TC's wants guarentees of Turkey over their security that no one can dare to spoil their lifes again .It does not mean that they can have lots of troops in Cyprus .They will have rights to protect us in a such a way that seconed coups will not happen again .

Halil, can you explain something to me.

It seems that the TC's want Turkey's guarantees if Turkey is not in the EU, but TC's do not ask for Turkey's guarantees once Turkey is in the EU. Why does the guarantees of Turkey depends whether Turkey is in the EU or not. Cyprus is in the EU, so why is that not enough for the TC's to feel secure without Turkey's guarantees. In another words, if you don't trust the GC's when Turkey is not a EU member, why would you trust them, if Turkey is a EU member. What does anything change if you do not trust the GC's to begin with.? To me, this seems like a ploy to get Turkey into the EU and has nothing to do with the TC’s security, because I cannot find any other explanation to the TC’s and Turkey’s demands of needing / giving guarantees.!

The other explanation would be of course, that Turkey has ZERO chance of ever being a EU member, therefore, this would allow them to have a intervention / invasion rights in Cyprus indefinitely.!

Halil, can you answer the above post please.!

[The Cypriot]

What do u mean u are looking from the Cypriots Persfective .

You can't see it, can you? That's the problem. You just can't see it.

Do u think Turkish Cypriots are not Cypriot.

Those who can rise above 'sides' and see things from a Cypriot perspective, yes. Those who still insist, in 2009, that a foreign army should have the right to intervene in the running of an EU country, no.

If there .... u have to take their considerations too.U don't trust the Turkish army it is ok from your side of the view .

Tell me anyone who trusts Turkey's army? The Greeks? The Kurds? The Armenians? Why should the Cypriots be any different? I've explained to you the reasons Cypriots don't trust the army and I've also explained to you how the army can build trust; by bringing their criminals to justice. But it won't.

How about the TC's perspectives and worries .Which they had tree times these expriencies (1963-1967 -1974) we can not count them as a nil .

Who said they are nil? I'm suggested that we find alternative ways to allay their fears; do so in a way that doesn't involve an army that scares the life out of the majority of Cypriots because of the atrocities this army committed in 1974; atrocities that remain unpunished. But you're not interested. Because this army has you by the balls.

We always hear from your side Turkey ... this and that

A professional army raping, torturing and executing innocent civilians... it's hardly 'this and that'. Punish the culprits if you want Cypriots to trust them.

....But u never wanting to talk about what was happened before 1974 . From one of these reasones our people are not trusting any solution in Cyprus without Turkey's gurantees.

But the army committed criminal acts that have gone unpunished. We don't want rapists, torturers and murderers guaranteeing safety in Cyprus, OK?

Thats what the people of TC are saying :
Turkish Cypriot Side has been negotiating with the Greek Cypriot Side with the objective of bringing about a comprehensive agreement

You're not negotiating. Your insisting on something that is a complete non-starter; and for obvious reasons.

which will be based on the political equality of two founding states, with Turkey’s active and effective guarantee
and which would not dilute the principle of bi-zonality

No, it just dilutes the principle of sanity. And you want Turkey because Turkey insists you have her; she won't let you go; she won't let you negotiate in good faith without her. Why should anyone else risk being tortured by her army? Look what it's done to you!

[Viewpoint]

What do u mean u are looking from the Cypriots Persfective .

You can't see it, can you? That's the problem. You just can't see it.

Do u think Turkish Cypriots are not Cypriot.

Those who can rise above 'sides' and see things from a Cypriot perspective, yes. Those who still insist, in 2009, that a foreign army should have the right to intervene in the running of an EU country, no.

If there .... u have to take their considerations too.U don't trust the Turkish army it is ok from your side of the view .

Tell me anyone who trusts Turkey's army? The Greeks? The Kurds? The Armenians? Why should the Cypriots be any different? I've explained to you the reasons Cypriots don't trust the army and I've also explained to you how the army can build trust; by bringing their criminals to justice. But it won't.

How about the TC's perspectives and worries .Which they had tree times these expriencies (1963-1967 -1974) we can not count them as a nil .

Who said they are nil? I'm suggested that we find alternative ways to allay their fears; do so in a way that doesn't involve an army that scares the life out of the majority of Cypriots because of the atrocities this army committed in 1974; atrocities that remain unpunished. But you're not interested. Because this army has you by the balls.

We always hear from your side Turkey ... this and that

A professional army raping, torturing and executing innocent civilians... it's hardly 'this and that'. Punish the culprits if you want Cypriots to trust them.

....But u never wanting to talk about what was happened before 1974 . From one of these reasones our people are not trusting any solution in Cyprus without Turkey's gurantees.

But the army committed criminal acts that have gone unpunished. We don't want rapists, torturers and murderers guaranteeing safety in Cyprus, OK?

Thats what the people of TC are saying :
Turkish Cypriot Side has been negotiating with the Greek Cypriot Side with the objective of bringing about a comprehensive agreement

You're not negotiating. Your insisting on something that is a complete non-starter; and for obvious reasons.

which will be based on the political equality of two founding states, with Turkey’s active and effective guarantee
and which would not dilute the principle of bi-zonality

No, it just dilutes the principle of sanity. And you want Turkey because Turkey insists you have her; she won't let you go; she won't let you negotiate in good faith without her. Why should anyone else risk being tortured by her army? Look what it's done to you!

Please re re-read your own post its so one sided that you lose any credibility you have left. You may not trust the Turkish Army but we do not trust GCs full stop, Turkey was the only country to have those balls you talk of to step in at the right time. NATO trusts the TA and we do so its times you got off your high horse and got down to earth with us lot, we agree you do not want them to remain as you fear them so they should all leave but to ask us to ditch the one life line we feel safe with is taking itto far and will not be accepted by the majority of TCs.

[paliometoxo]

bombing for peace is like F****ing for virginity

[The Cypriot]

Please re re-read your own post its so one sided that you lose any credibility you have left.

Looks fine to me. You need to invite someone independent to read it to establish its relative merits. You're in no position to judge it, nor my credibility.

You may not trust the Turkish Army but we do not trust GCs full stop,

We need to find another way to guarantee security then.

Turkey was the only country to have those balls you talk of

Yes, balls and chains round your necks.

to step in at the right time. NATO trusts the TA and we do so its times you got off your high horse and got down to earth with us lot,

No free Cypriot; no European, no citizen of the free world would agree to Turkey's army intervening in their country. I'd rather stay with them.

we agree you do not want them to remain as you fear them so they should all leave but to ask us to ditch the one life line we feel safe with is taking itto far and will not be accepted by the majority of TCs.

So you say. But it's a deal-breaker. And no one outside Turkey and its subordinate state would be unsympathetic to why.

Anyway, it's been lovely having a natter, dear, but I've filled my jug with water now and I really must get back home to my chores; I'm sure there'll be some other women along soon that you can have a good old moan at...