Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

Did you manage to find out why these lovely TC's didn't say anything at the time , or since, and how much money they made from this unsavoury situation? AAhh Hindsight. 20/20 vision. The Orams case will not affect 99.9999999% of the Foreign Nationals who have bought homes in the north. They might feel a bit scared now but come Christmas, no problems. Life time gifting, transfers of assets, and other such LEGAL mechanisms will ensure their wealth remains intact. The Turkish and Greek Cypriots will be where they started from. No further in their quest for a utopian or magic solution. Next referendum, GC's will still say OXI, probably to be joined by the TC community. A few more generations needed. Who will suffer the most? The poor. Who will get richer? The rich. Nothing will change soon.

Addressed to Tim Drayton

I don't think any of these people have made money from such sales. I know one of these chaps said that he had "exchange points" and had still been unable to acquire an "exchange property". I doubt if people like the Orams dropped by at coffee shops and canvassed the view of ordinary TCs, so that is why "these lovely TC's didn't say anything at the time". Anyway, up until the past five years or so, TCs have lived in a political system where you kept your mouth shut and got on with your life as best you could, regardless of whether you agreed with what was going on.

I feel that views of ordinary TCs are not reflected in what is being put across as the TC position in recent discussion on this forum. That is what compelled me to add my little post. You can accept it at face value or not, it is up to you.

[Oracle]

They might feel a bit scared now but come Christmas, no problems. Life time gifting, transfers of assets, and other such LEGAL mechanisms will ensure their wealth remains intact. .

All such transactions are still deemed in your estate for seven years ... therefore, seizable!

Whatever you do now, it's too late ....

Of course ... the default setting, should you have bought stolen goods and don't return them (sounds like you're feeling "guilty") ... is Prison!

No. I don't feel guilty at all. What I feel is sorry for those whose lives have been disrupted by the CyProb, ever since 1191. Seven years is not long to wait. How long did Orams take? While I can understand your jubilation, in the long run it will not actually solve anything.

Sounds like your sentence has begun .....

[suetoniuspaulinus]

They might feel a bit scared now but come Christmas, no problems. Life time gifting, transfers of assets, and other such LEGAL mechanisms will ensure their wealth remains intact. .

All such transactions are still deemed in your estate for seven years ... therefore, seizable!

Whatever you do now, it's too late ....

Of course ... the default setting, should you have bought stolen goods and don't return them (sounds like you're feeling "guilty") ... is Prison!

No. I don't feel guilty at all. What I feel is sorry for those whose lives have been disrupted by the CyProb, ever since 1191. Seven years is not long to wait. How long did Orams take? While I can understand your jubilation, in the long run it will not actually solve anything.

Sounds like your sentence has begun .....

It's been going on for some time now............

[suetoniuspaulinus]

Did you manage to find out why these lovely TC's didn't say anything at the time , or since, and how much money they made from this unsavoury situation? AAhh Hindsight. 20/20 vision. The Orams case will not affect 99.9999999% of the Foreign Nationals who have bought homes in the north. They might feel a bit scared now but come Christmas, no problems. Life time gifting, transfers of assets, and other such LEGAL mechanisms will ensure their wealth remains intact. The Turkish and Greek Cypriots will be where they started from. No further in their quest for a utopian or magic solution. Next referendum, GC's will still say OXI, probably to be joined by the TC community. A few more generations needed. Who will suffer the most? The poor. Who will get richer? The rich. Nothing will change soon.

Addressed to Tim Drayton

I don't think any of these people have made money from such sales. I know one of these chaps said that he had "exchange points" and had still been unable to acquire an "exchange property". I doubt if people like the Orams dropped by at coffee shops and canvassed the view of ordinary TCs, so that is why "these lovely TC's didn't say anything at the time". Anyway, up until the past five years or so, TCs have lived in a political system where you kept your mouth shut and got on with your life as best you could, regardless of whether you agreed with what was going on.

I feel that views of ordinary TCs are not reflected in what is being put across as the TC position in recent discussion on this forum. That is what compelled me to add my little post. You can accept it at face value or not, it is up to you.

As you have so rightly pointed out, there has been a certain "Flexibility" of TC thought on several issues in the past. As there will be in the future. I'm surprised that you do not feel the "Average" TC is represented on this forum. Does one infer that the viewpoint of the "Average" GC is represented on this forum?

As for taking your post at "face value", that is clearly my only option, but I feel that your having taken comments made by some TC's in a coffee shop, in the north somewhere, at "Face value" may have been erroneous.
Is it possible that they told you what you were happy to hear?

[Oracle]

They might feel a bit scared now but come Christmas, no problems. Life time gifting, transfers of assets, and other such LEGAL mechanisms will ensure their wealth remains intact. .

All such transactions are still deemed in your estate for seven years ... therefore, seizable!

Whatever you do now, it's too late ....

Of course ... the default setting, should you have bought stolen goods and don't return them (sounds like you're feeling "guilty") ... is Prison!

No. I don't feel guilty at all. What I feel is sorry for those whose lives have been disrupted by the CyProb, ever since 1191. Seven years is not long to wait. How long did Orams take? While I can understand your jubilation, in the long run it will not actually solve anything.

Sounds like your sentence has begun .....

It's been going on for some time now............

Your plea of, "We didn't steal it, they lost it!" failed to get you off, then?

[suetoniuspaulinus]

They might feel a bit scared now but come Christmas, no problems. Life time gifting, transfers of assets, and other such LEGAL mechanisms will ensure their wealth remains intact. .

All such transactions are still deemed in your estate for seven years ... therefore, seizable!

Whatever you do now, it's too late ....

Of course ... the default setting, should you have bought stolen goods and don't return them (sounds like you're feeling "guilty") ... is Prison!

No. I don't feel guilty at all. What I feel is sorry for those whose lives have been disrupted by the CyProb, ever since 1191. Seven years is not long to wait. How long did Orams take? While I can understand your jubilation, in the long run it will not actually solve anything.

Sounds like your sentence has begun .....

It's been going on for some time now............

Your plea of, "We didn't steal it, they lost it!" failed to get you off, then?

Definitely.Even "Finders Keepers" didn't work. So much theft!!Human Rights, Property, Political Representation, Identity.

Mind you, "We didn't steal it, they lost it!" seemed to work for you OK.

[Oracle]

They might feel a bit scared now but come Christmas, no problems. Life time gifting, transfers of assets, and other such LEGAL mechanisms will ensure their wealth remains intact. .

All such transactions are still deemed in your estate for seven years ... therefore, seizable!

Whatever you do now, it's too late ....

Of course ... the default setting, should you have bought stolen goods and don't return them (sounds like you're feeling "guilty") ... is Prison!

No. I don't feel guilty at all. What I feel is sorry for those whose lives have been disrupted by the CyProb, ever since 1191. Seven years is not long to wait. How long did Orams take? While I can understand your jubilation, in the long run it will not actually solve anything.

Sounds like your sentence has begun .....

It's been going on for some time now............

Your plea of, "We didn't steal it, they lost it!" failed to get you off, then?

Definitely.Even "Finders Keepers" didn't work. So much theft!!Human Rights, Property, Political Representation, Identity.

Mind you, "We didn't steal it, they lost it!" seemed to work for you OK.

How so? ... or is that just a face saving remark?

[suetoniuspaulinus]

Yes, the question of who stole what from whom will result in another circular argument where you say I'm wrong and I will reiterate the sentiment.

The idea of "saving face" , especially on this forum, is far from my mind.

Once again, though, let me state that there have been many injustices on this island perpetrated by all and sundry and that I feel sorry for the victims, whoever they may be. The most recent, of course, being the Orams. Overly trusting? Perhaps. Victims of the CyProb? Definitely!

Only history will unravel this conundrum. Surely not me or Oracle. Of one thing I am sure, it will not be solved in my lifetime, or my children's.

[Oracle]

Rhetoric worthy of a Roman Emperor ... which means only second best in Hellenic forums.

Yes, the question of who stole what from whom will result in another circular argument where you say I'm wrong and I will reiterate the sentiment.

You seem to be the only one going round in circles, suet ... For us the road ahead is now linear, thanks to (inter alia) the Orams.

The idea of "saving face" , especially on this forum, is far from my mind.

Very wise ... to recognise your name is mud!

Once again, though, let me state that there have been many injustices on this island perpetrated by all and sundry and that I feel sorry for the victims, whoever they may be. The most recent, of course, being the Orams. Overly trusting? Perhaps. Victims of the CyProb? Definitely!

The Orams are only victims of their own stupidity and greed and as such merely to be pitied.

Only history will unravel this conundrum. Surely not me or Oracle. Of one thing I am sure, it will not be solved in my lifetime, or my children's.

The only conundrum is how to solve your, confessed, personal "sentence"; but tempus fugit ...

Perhaps the mire engulfing you is clouding your judgement, since things appear much clearer from our perspective.

[Highlanderwolf]

I am a Scot with a property in Paphos and another (pre 74 title) near Kyrenia. I love Cyprus and the Cypriot people, irrespective of their ethnic background; however my feeling, and the feeling of those I know is this:
Throughout history there have been wars and invasions. Empires have risen and fallen and land has changed hands. Cyprus is no different. It is awful, people can be barbaric, but 1974 was 35 years ago. The vitriol has to be dropped and people have to move on. My own kin were cleared from the highlands to Canada and Australia by the English to make way for sheep, but its history now. Lets move on.