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More worries

Postby RAFAELLA » Mon May 04, 2009 5:01 pm

They've been branded thieves and suffered death threats - the hell of the Britons who dreamed of retiring to Northern Cyprus

By Natalie Clarke
Last updated at 12:51 PM on 04th May 2009

The weather was suitably fine for the second annual Ozankoy Flower Show on Saturday, with blue skies and a mellow breeze that kept the hundreds of visitors cool as the afternoon wore on.

As befits a country show, there were cake and book stalls, a beer garden, arts and crafts, and, of course, the flowers - hibiscus, jasmine and many more - whose seductive scent pervaded the village square.
It was a taste of old-fashioned England under the piercing blue skies of the Mediterranean. But there was also a sense of defiance in the air, mixed with fear.

The idyll of the British community in Northern Cyprus, which comprises at least 10,000 residents and around 10,000 more who have holiday homes in the area, is under threat.
Their fate rests on the result of a court case that has been going on for more than four years and concerns a third of an acre plot of land in the village of Lapta, eight miles from the city of Kyrenia.
British couple David and Linda Orams bought the site seven years ago, investing £170,000 in the property that was intended to enable them to live in peaceful retirement in the sun.

But two years later, in 2004, a man turned up on their doorstep and politely explained that the land belonged to him.
His family had been forced to flee in 1974 in just the clothes they were wearing, when Turkish troops invaded the island in response to moves by the Greek government to unite Cyprus with mainland Greece.
And now he wanted his property back.

On Tuesday this week, that man, Meletis Apostolides, gained the advantage over the Oramses in the latest chapter of this legal saga, when the European Court of Justice supported his claim, upholding the ruling of the very first court hearing back in 2004.
Back then, a court in Nicosia ruled that Mr and Mrs Orams must demolish their home, return the land to Mr Apostolides, replant the family lemon grove and pay him compensation and monthly rent until he received his property.
The case now returns to the British Court of Appeal, which had sought guidance from the European Court, and their ruling is expected by October.

If the Oramses lose, they will face legal costs that could run into millions. And thousands of Britons will be exposed to similar claims.
Indeed, a second British couple, Bruce and Barbara Weedon, who divide their time between Canterbury, Kent, and Northern Cyprus, have already been targeted by another man who wants his property back.

Constantis Candounas, the lawyer who also represents Mr Apostolides, says a writ was served against the couple in November, demanding they pay £60,000 in back rent, leave their house in Karaman and hand it back to Vasiliki Zehchiri, another exile who fled in the wake of Turkish forces.

Yesterday Mrs Weedon denied receiving a writ. 'It's not true,' she says, 'but our lawyers have advised us not to speak about the case.'
So in Ozankoy on Saturday there was much for the British expats to talk about. Will Greek Cypriots start banging on all their doors? Will they all lose their homes and livelihoods?

Already, there is great animosity in the south, with the British perceived as having marched in and taken possession of properties that do not belong to them. Words such as 'trespass' and 'theft' are used freely.
Many Greek Cypriots believe the thousands of British who bought here when the boom began in 2003 were aware the land belonged to Greek Cypriots, but turned a blind eye to get a bargain, pointing out that property prices in the south of Cyprus are four times higher.
One can certainly feel a measure of sympathy for the Greek Cypriots, the pain they must feel at seeing their villages taken over by Brits, the houses where they raised their children turned into holiday homes.
But are the British, who live in and around Kyrenia - north of the so-called Green Line that divides southern Cyprus from the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus - to blame?

They insist not, saying that they were, at best, uninformed, at worst misled, although Northern Cyprus's reputation for being 'dodgy' was certainly no secret.
The Britons who may be at risk are those who bought on so-called exchanged land - Greek Cypriot land given to Turkish Cypriots in exchange for land they had lost in the south.
Those who own Turkish title deeds to properties which were not previously owned by Greek Cypriots are not at risk.
Steve and Jean Beaumont are among those who fear for their home. They moved to the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, which is recognised only by Turkey, to seek a new life after Steve was made redundant from his job with a vending machine company.

The couple, who have four grandchildren, sold their house in Pontefract, West Yorkshire, to buy a £90,000 new-build three-bedroom detached house with a third of an acre, in Ozankoy, and moved to the island in June last year.
'We're very worried,' says Steve, 55. 'We're starting to think it's not a question of if someone is going to come knocking on our door, but when.
'After I was made redundant we looked at various countries on the internet to see where it would be possible and affordable for us to move to, and Northern Cyprus came up. We came out here three times and did as much homework as we could to make sure everything was done correctly.

'We knew there were problems between north and south, but the estate agent told us it was perfectly safe to buy on exchanged land because the Greek Cypriots had been recompensed with land in the south.
'When we moved in, we spent £20,000 on installing water and electricity and so on, and having the garden landscaped. We've worked all our lives for this, to have a nicer lifestyle. This house is all we've got and if we lose it we have nothing.
'We've been talking about selling, but with the case going on I don't think we'd be able to. We're trying to stay positive, but it's very worrying.'

Harry Margerison, a 66-year-old retired draughtsman and his 66-year-old wife, Rita, moved to Northern Cyprus from Blackburn, Lancashire, three years ago, paying £120,000 for a spacious bungalow in Ozankoy.
'We're not frightened and we're staying put because we believe we've done nothing wrong,' Harry insists.
'In 1974 there was no bungalow here, just an olive grove stood, and we were told by the estate agent and the solicitors who advised us, that the person who had lost their land had been given the equivalent in the south, so there would be no issue.
'We understood it was in the past, it had been resolved and that it would be OK for us to buy.'

Marion and Alan Stuart bought a four-storey property in the village of Malatya for £125,000 five years ago. Before 1974, it was a Greek Cypriot village and Marion, a journalist, and Alan, a 79-year-old retired road engineer, both originally from London, are aware they could be targeted.
'I was on an internet forum discussing the problems, and I received an email from someone saying: "You are born in England, living in stolen property",' Marion says.
'I replied that I have never stolen anything in my life. We were assured by our estate agent and solicitors that everything was above board. We feel we did everything we could do to check the legitimacy of the sale.
'I do think it's time the Turkish Cypriots stood up for themselves. Why don't they ask for the land back in the south they had to flee from?
'Alan and I do have an address in the UK, and we have family who would look after us, so while we are concerned about the situation we'll deal with whatever is thrown at us.

'But it's already having an effect on the housing market. An estate agent friend told me that this week one person keen to buy a property has changed his mind and another one who has put down quite a lot of money already is trying to pull out.
'We feel really sorry for the Oramses, and that this is just extremely unfair.'

Today, David and Linda Orams, who have two sons in their 30s, and are being represented by Tony Blair's wife Cherie Booth QC, are trying to remain positive.
'It has taken its toll, but you have to keep a sense of perspective,' says Linda, 62. 'We are not going to give up because we have done nothing wrong, and that is what keeps us going.'
When the couple moved out to Cyprus in 2002, both had recently retired - David, now 65, from his job as a PR manager and Linda as an administrative worker at a museum in Hove, East Sussex.
A half-built shell of a house stood on the plot. The Oramses finished the house and built a pool and a terrace. They planted olive and lemon trees, hibiscus and roses in the garden.

'We don't know why whoever had been building the house pulled out; we just assumed he'd run out of money,' says Linda. 'We were told the land had belonged to a Turkish Cypriot who had bought it from someone else and there were title deeds backing this up, which we saw.
'Further back, the land had belonged to a Turkish Cypriot who had been given it in exchange for land he'd lost in the south.
'There was no reason at all to suspect that it belonged to a Greek Cypriot family.'

The year after the couple moved in, planning to spend half the year there and the other half at their property in Hove, the border opened between the north and south. Greek Cypriots jumped in their cars to go back to the family homes they had fled as children.
Soon afterwards, David and Linda discovered that the land had once been owned by Greek Cypriots.
'A neighbour came round and said a crowd of Greeks had hammered at her door demanding their land back,' Linda says. 'She said all the land around here was Greek. It was a bit of a bombshell.
'We were in a restaurant one night when a man came in shouting that the Greeks were going to get their land back, and then he made a sign to indicate that anyone who resisted would have their throat cut.'

Then, one day in October 2004, Linda answered the door to Mr Apostolides.
'He said the land belonged to him, that he had lived there with his parents, and they used to have a lemon grove on the land.
'I said: "Well it belongs to me now." Then he said that he had the title deeds to prove ownership.'
His family were among 167,000 Greek Cypriots forced to flee their homes in Northern Cyprus during the period of turmoil in 1974 and 1975. Some 40,000 Turkish Cypriots also abandoned properties in the south to escape north.
'Mr Apostolides blames us for his lemon grove not being here, but the fact is when we moved in the plot was just a pile of rubble,' says Linda. 'We did not destroy it - of course we would not have done that.'
One evening, when David was back in England, two men turned up and said they had some papers for Linda to sign.
'They were in Greek,' recalls Linda. 'I asked one of the men to translate, but he said he didn't understand them because he was Turkish. I later discovered he was, in fact, Greek and so could have translated for me.
'Later that night I found someone who spoke Greek and he said I'd better get a lawyer.
'It was a writ stating that I agreed to pull down the house, return the land, replant the lemon trees and pay rent and compensation. If I didn't sign, the case would go to court.'

Linda had two weeks to object before a judge in southerncontrolled Nicosia ruled on the case. By the time she had found a lawyer, the judge had found against her by default.
A few weeks later, Linda went back to court to appeal.
'The judge threw out the documents because he was Greek Cypriot and our evidence had been prepared in Turkish,' says Linda.
In January 2005, Linda returned for another court hearing in Nicosia and the judgment was upheld. The Oramses were planning to appeal to the Supreme Court when they heard that the other side had taken the case to the High Court in London so that it might be recognised in Britain, and Mr Apostolides could seize the couple's assets in Britain if he could not get the land back in Cyprus.

At this point Mrs Blair was approached. The costs were mounting. The couple do not wish to discuss the funding of their case other than to say they are receiving help from 'sponsors', and won't be drawn on whether this funding will pay their costs if they lose.
The High Court case - which alone cost £800,000 - took place in July 2006 over four days.

This time the Oramses won, with the High Court ruling that the Greek Cypriot ruling was not enforceable because EU legislation is suspended in Northern Cyprus pending the island's reunification (the rest of Cyprus is a member state of the EU).
It was a huge relief. But it was not the end. In June 2007, the case was heard at the Court of Appeal at the High Court, which referred it to Europe. There was yet another delay before that hearing was held before the European Court of Justice last September.
Of the latest ruling, Linda says: 'Of course, we were very disappointed. But it just becomes part of your life. Actually we've managed to enjoy the house. We look after the garden, sit on the terrace and enjoy the sun.'
Many here, British and Turkish Cypriot alike, believe the Oramses are pawns in a political game being played by the government of Cyprus, in a bid to derail talks aimed at reunifying the island.

In 2004, the Greeks rejected by three to one a referendum supported by the United Nations to unify the island, while the Turkish population in the north voted two to one for it.
There have been suspicions for some time that Mr Apostolides, an architect who trained in Britain, may be receiving southern Cypriot government assistance. His lawyer denies this.
But whatever the motivation behind the case, David and Linda expect to learn what should be the final decision in September or October and visitors to the second annual Ozankoy Flower Show nervously await the outcome.
Will there, one wonders, be a third?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... l#comments

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Postby Viewpoint » Mon May 04, 2009 7:14 pm

Now the Oramses should counter sue the "ROC" for the land in the south and the GCs can no longer link anything to a solution or else they should have done the same in this case.
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Postby paliometoxo » Mon May 04, 2009 7:20 pm

the land in the south the tcs are welcome to come take but gcs in the north are told to f off and sold to english people...

what where the gcs who where forced out of their homes supposed to do. they dident have a choise where as turkey came and forced people out... so its not the same with property in the north and south
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Postby wallace » Mon May 04, 2009 7:32 pm

Viewpoint wrote:Now the Oramses should counter sue the "ROC" for the land in the south and the GCs can no longer link anything to a solution or else they should have done the same in this case.


Oramses should counter sue?? :roll: Counter sue for what?
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Postby Viewpoint » Mon May 04, 2009 7:53 pm

wallace wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Now the Oramses should counter sue the "ROC" for the land in the south and the GCs can no longer link anything to a solution or else they should have done the same in this case.


Oramses should counter sue?? :roll: Counter sue for what?


Maybe the word counter was not right but my intention was for the Orams to indirectly sue the "RoC" using the TC whos land was exchnaged for this land in the north who knows they may end up making a big profit.
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Postby Hermes » Mon May 04, 2009 8:04 pm

wallace wrote:Oramses should counter sue?? :roll: Counter sue for what?

Why can't they sue the Turk who sold them the land in the first place or the "TRNC" who encouraged them? Or they could sue themselves for being fat, ugly dumbasses who didn't see it coming. Or Cherie Blair who insisted they go to the ECJ. Or they could just blow their gaudy house up, pay the rightful owner compensation and slink off back to England and just be thankful they still have a roof over their heads to protect them from the English rain.
Last edited by Hermes on Mon May 04, 2009 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby wallace » Mon May 04, 2009 8:05 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
wallace wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:Now the Oramses should counter sue the "ROC" for the land in the south and the GCs can no longer link anything to a solution or else they should have done the same in this case.


Oramses should counter sue?? :roll: Counter sue for what?


Maybe the word counter was not right but my intention was for the Orams to indirectly sue the "RoC" using the TC whos land was exchnaged for this land in the north who knows they may end up making a big profit.


I don't think that the RoC is aware of who's land was exchanged in the first place. Maybe you should find the plonker that sold the land to the Orams instead of looking for ways to blame the RoC. :lol:
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Postby Kifeas » Mon May 04, 2009 8:10 pm

Viewpoint wrote:Now the Oramses should counter sue the "ROC" for the land in the south and the GCs can no longer link anything to a solution or else they should have done the same in this case.


Sue them VP! I hope you all do, and I hope you all come and take your properties. With only very few exceptions, it is all here waiting for you. In fact, the more of you do so, the more our position regarding our properties in the north is strengthened, because you will no longer use the lies you tell the British regarding "exchange" land.

PS: Your newly elected leader, Eroglu, among other rubbish and nonsense he uttered in his interview in "Simerini" newspaper on Sunday, he also said that after 1974 we have made an "exchange of populations" agreement, between north and south[sic!] When did this happen and none of us is aware of it? Don't you feel ashamed to have elected a leader that lies in such a provocative manner?
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Postby Piratis » Mon May 04, 2009 8:14 pm

There was never any exchange VP. You saw the numbers. 167.000 GC refugees forced out of north Cyprus at gun point, and 40.000 TCs who moved to the north in order to achieve the dream of partition they had since the 1950s.

Our refugees are only housed temporarily in the south until all of them are allowed to return to their own homes which you illegally occupy. Non of them was given any "exchange land" or any title deeds for TC properties.

On the other hand, most TCs, including many of those who were already living in the north part of Cyprus in 74, were a lot of Greek Cypriot properties (many times more than what they left behind in the south) with fake title deeds. They then used this fake title deeds to sell our properties to foreigners.
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Postby Piratis » Mon May 04, 2009 8:18 pm

They can just agree for everybody to be given his land back. It is them who refuse to accept this, not us.

We have absolutely no problem with those 40.000 TC and those 167.000 GCs returning to their own homes. Do you have a problem with this VP?
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