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Do you believe in Old testament or New testament or both?

Feel free to talk about anything that you want.

Do you believe in Old testament or New testament or both?

Old Testament
3
14%
New Testament
1
5%
Both
5
23%
None
13
59%
 
Total votes : 22

Postby offlimits2 » Mon May 04, 2009 3:27 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
The Cypriot wrote:I believe in them as books; they both clearly exist, just as Alice in Wonderland and The Odyssey exist. But as authoritative historical references; or as a guide for human behaviour and interaction; there are far too many inherent inconsistencies within each of them; as well as inconsistencies with our current understanding of the world and how it works, to render them, as a whole, unworthy.

Although there are some wonderful bits, I'll grant you, though, for me, your quote from Deuteronomy wouldn't be one of them.


I agree. It is all a matter of semantics. You have to define "believe" more precisely.




Deuteronomy 18

18: I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


may be this verse can raise a question ? Which Prophet is being discussed here?
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Postby kurupetos » Mon May 04, 2009 3:34 pm

offlimits2 wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
The Cypriot wrote:I believe in them as books; they both clearly exist, just as Alice in Wonderland and The Odyssey exist. But as authoritative historical references; or as a guide for human behaviour and interaction; there are far too many inherent inconsistencies within each of them; as well as inconsistencies with our current understanding of the world and how it works, to render them, as a whole, unworthy.

Although there are some wonderful bits, I'll grant you, though, for me, your quote from Deuteronomy wouldn't be one of them.


I agree. It is all a matter of semantics. You have to define "believe" more precisely.




Deuteronomy 18

18: I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


may be this verse can raise a question ? Which Prophet is being discussed here?


kurupetos.

Next question?
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Postby Tim Drayton » Mon May 04, 2009 4:20 pm

offlimits2 wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
The Cypriot wrote:I believe in them as books; they both clearly exist, just as Alice in Wonderland and The Odyssey exist. But as authoritative historical references; or as a guide for human behaviour and interaction; there are far too many inherent inconsistencies within each of them; as well as inconsistencies with our current understanding of the world and how it works, to render them, as a whole, unworthy.

Although there are some wonderful bits, I'll grant you, though, for me, your quote from Deuteronomy wouldn't be one of them.


I agree. It is all a matter of semantics. You have to define "believe" more precisely.




Deuteronomy 18

18: I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


may be this verse can raise a question ? Which Prophet is being discussed here?


Maybe, but it scarcely addresses my question.
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Postby Hatter » Mon May 04, 2009 4:28 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:You have to define "believe" more precisely.



Perhaps you have to define "offlimits2" more precisely.

Qamarsland strikes again?
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Postby Hatter » Mon May 04, 2009 4:32 pm

kurupetos wrote:
offlimits2 wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
The Cypriot wrote:I believe in them as books; they both clearly exist, just as Alice in Wonderland and The Odyssey exist. But as authoritative historical references; or as a guide for human behaviour and interaction; there are far too many inherent inconsistencies within each of them; as well as inconsistencies with our current understanding of the world and how it works, to render them, as a whole, unworthy.

Although there are some wonderful bits, I'll grant you, though, for me, your quote from Deuteronomy wouldn't be one of them.


I agree. It is all a matter of semantics. You have to define "believe" more precisely.




Deuteronomy 18

18: I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


may be this verse can raise a question ? Which Prophet is being discussed here?


kurupetos.

Next question?



Take no notice of Kurupetos, offlimit2. The correct answer is, of course, "hatter".

Next question?
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Postby spiritoftheage » Mon May 04, 2009 4:45 pm

A quote taken from the Zeitgeist Movement web site which says a lot about religion and what damage it has caused over the centuries.



Spirituality has a different meaning to each of us, it seems. A standard definition would be: "A sense of meaning and purpose; a sense of self and of a relationship with 'that which is greater than self".

Currently, Religion and Mysticism seem to have the monopoly on Spirituality. Theistic religion often regards a 'relationship with god' or divine creator, as a spiritual relationship, while Mystics will often find a relationship to a 'supernatural' force or power. The bottom line is that, almost universally, spirituality has to do with a 'relationship' on one level or another. In most perspectives, it is associated with a person's 'place' or 'meaning' in life... whatever that may be.

As subjective as these things can be, we begin to recognize changes in these notions, for social progress tends to carve a path for understandings that stand the test of time. In the modern age, we have the ability to look far in our past and examine what our ancestors used to consider 'real', and then compare those ideas to what we understand today. Many "spiritual practices" which have existed in the past, no longer exist due the understandings that have come about in regard to natural phenomenon. As a base example, early religions often 'sacrificed' animals for certain purposes... this rarely happens today, as the relevance of such an act has proven pointless in its desired effect. Likewise, rarely do people perform 'raindances' in order to influence the weather... today we understand how weather patterns are created, and ritual practices have no provable effect.

Similarly, the idea of 'praying' to a god for a particular request, has also statistically proven to have little effect on an outcome, not to mention the evidence to support a personified creator doesn't exist in any scientific way...rather it is often derived from ancient historical literary speculation and tradition.

Establishment Religion, in many ways, seems to be rooted in a perceptual misunderstanding about life's processes. For instance, it presents a worldview which often puts the human on a different level than other elements of nature. This 'spiritual ego' has led to dramatic conflicts for generations, not only between human beings, but inadvertently between us and the environment itself.

However, as time has moved forward, Science has shown how human beings are subject to the exact same forces of nature as everything else. We have learned that we all share the same atomic substructure as trees, birds and all other forms of life. We have learned that we cannot live without nature's elements... we need clean air to breathe, food to eat, energy from the sun, etc. When we understand this Symbiotic relationship of life, we begin to see that as far as 'relationships' are concerned, our relationship to the planet is the most profound and important. The medium by which this is expressed, is Science, for the Scientific Method has allowed us insight into these natural process, so we can better understand how we 'fit' into this life system as a whole.

This could be called a 'spiritual' awakening.

This realization, which has been proven by science, is that humans are no different from any other form of nature, while our integrity is only as good as the integrity of our environment, to which we are a part. This understanding presents an entirely different 'spiritual' worldview, for it forces the idea of interdependence and connection, at its core.

The interconnection of the whole of life is undeniable in the most basic sense, and it is this perpetual 'relationship' of total interconnectivity that is not fully realized by society overall. Thus, our modes of conduct and perception are largely out of line with nature itself... and hence destructive.

Nature itself is our teacher, and our social institutions and philosophies should be derived from this foundational and, invariably, 'spiritual' understanding.

The faster this spiritual awakening spreads, the more sane, peaceful and productive society will become.


http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joo ... &Itemid=59
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Postby miltiades » Mon May 04, 2009 4:49 pm

offlimits2 wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
The Cypriot wrote:I believe in them as books; they both clearly exist, just as Alice in Wonderland and The Odyssey exist. But as authoritative historical references; or as a guide for human behaviour and interaction; there are far too many inherent inconsistencies within each of them; as well as inconsistencies with our current understanding of the world and how it works, to render them, as a whole, unworthy.

Although there are some wonderful bits, I'll grant you, though, for me, your quote from Deuteronomy wouldn't be one of them.


I agree. It is all a matter of semantics. You have to define "believe" more precisely.




Deuteronomy 18

18: I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.


may be this verse can raise a question ? Which Prophet is being discussed here?

Pity HE didnt teach him to read and write instead of polemics !!!
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Postby offlimits2 » Mon May 04, 2009 4:50 pm

i m shocked..... really

i was under impression that greeks and greek cypriots are very religious than rest of the europe..
coz if you see churches in easter and christmas they are filled up . no place even out side


now i have to start another poll.. to get the idea if most people on this from are greek

regarding religious belief , we will open up another thread.
initiall step was to recognize the fact that old, new or any testament is being believe or read at all..


:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D :D
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Postby Hatter » Mon May 04, 2009 4:55 pm

offlimits2 wrote:i m shocked..... really

i was under impression that greeks and greek cypriots are very religious than rest of the europe..
coz if you see churches in easter and christmas they are filled up . no place even out side


now i have to start another poll.. to get the idea if most people on this from are greek
regarding religious belief , we will open up another thread.
initiall step was to recognize the fact that old, new or any testament is being believe or read at all..


:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D :D



Why is "to get the idea if most people on this from are greek" important to you, offlimits2 ?
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Postby offlimits2 » Mon May 04, 2009 4:58 pm

Hatter wrote:
offlimits2 wrote:i m shocked..... really

i was under impression that greeks and greek cypriots are very religious than rest of the europe..
coz if you see churches in easter and christmas they are filled up . no place even out side


now i have to start another poll.. to get the idea if most people on this from are greek
regarding religious belief , we will open up another thread.
initiall step was to recognize the fact that old, new or any testament is being believe or read at all..


:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D :D



Why is "to get the idea if most people on this from are greek" important to you, offlimits2 ?


why not ?
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