Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

The recent monumental decision of the ECJ is an incontrovertible proof that the political "war" through legal means can achieve stupendous results without one drop of blood , one tear being shed.

Take note that Options have NOT expired , not within the legal means . Those warmongers must now rethink and reassess their thinking .Only political "combat" based on the rule of law can achieve what 100 wars can not.
Some time back I, as well as many other Forum members proclaimed the Cyprus entry into the EU as the greatest EVER milestone in Cyprus's history.

Sometime back again I along with many other forum members supported the resolution of the Cyprus problem through peaceful political means . We are witnessing the benefits of peaceful legal efforts .
The options are many , none demand violence , bloodshed or conflict.

[Hermes]

A very good point. We have an army of lawyers and our weapons are the law and legal precedent. Let the Turks note, the law is mightier than the tank.

[YFred]

The recent monumental decision of the ECJ is an incontrovertible proof that the political "war" through legal means can achieve stupendous results without one drop of blood , one tear being shed.

Take note that Options have NOT expired , not within the legal means . Those warmongers must now rethink and reassess their thinking .Only political "combat" based on the rule of law can achieve what 100 wars can not.
Some time back I, as well as many other Forum members proclaimed the Cyprus entry into the EU as the greatest EVER milestone in Cyprus's history.

Sometime back again I along with many other forum members supported the resolution of the Cyprus problem through peaceful political means . We are witnessing the benefits of peaceful legal efforts .
The options are many , none demand violence , bloodshed or conflict.

Miltiades, explain that to the construction workers who will now find themselves out of work and unable to feed their family. See how supporting they will be. All this has done is made peace more difficult whilst not helping one iota towards giving this man his property back. Perhaps they will be tempted to become crooks and join the mafia instead, because they will find easy pickings in the south selling drugs. Of course it would be their fault for losing their jobs.
For your benefit, I have done a little research of everyone TC I know and not found one person supporting this judgement.

[miltiades]

The recent monumental decision of the ECJ is an incontrovertible proof that the political "war" through legal means can achieve stupendous results without one drop of blood , one tear being shed.

Take note that Options have NOT expired , not within the legal means . Those warmongers must now rethink and reassess their thinking .Only political "combat" based on the rule of law can achieve what 100 wars can not.
Some time back I, as well as many other Forum members proclaimed the Cyprus entry into the EU as the greatest EVER milestone in Cyprus's history.

Sometime back again I along with many other forum members supported the resolution of the Cyprus problem through peaceful political means . We are witnessing the benefits of peaceful legal efforts .
The options are many , none demand violence , bloodshed or conflict.

Miltiades, explain that to the construction workers who will now find themselves out of work and unable to feed their family. See how supporting they will be. All this has done is made peace more difficult whilst not helping one iota towards giving this man his property back. Perhaps they will be tempted to become crooks and join the mafia instead, because they will find easy pickings in the south selling drugs. Of course it would be their fault for losing their jobs.
For your benefit, I have done a little research of everyone TC I know and not found one person supporting this judgement.

My own research suggests otherwise.
The law must apply to all not just to those that agree with it or disagree. As for the construction workers since the vast majority are settlers perhaps they will seek alternative employment in their own country. You are aware that T/Cs can freely work in the RoC without let or hindrance. They can also enjoy health care and other benefits just as any other Cypriot.
The candle has gone off in the occupied part of Cyprus.

[Hermes]

For your benefit, I have done a little research of everyone TC I know and not found one person supporting this judgement.

Surely not everyone, Fred? Can it be true that every T/C approves of the stealing of property? I thought you said the T/Cs were a law-abiding people? The way you describe it it's as if they are all thieves and looters and the "TRNC" is a pirate haven? Tell me this is not so...

[kurupetos]

For your benefit, I have done a little research of everyone TC I know and not found one person supporting this judgement.

Surely not everyone, Fred? Can it be true that every T/C approves of the stealing of property? I thought you said the T/Cs were a law-abiding people? The way you describe it it's as if they are all thieves and looters and the "TRNC" is a pirate haven? Tell me this is not so...

What else could it be?

They are no different than those Somali pirates.

[Bananiot]

This is the opinion of "Cyprus mail" on the matter:

Greek Cypriot property rights must be recognised

IT’S HARD to have any sympathy for David and Linda Orams, or for any of the other expats living on Greek Cypriot properties in the north whose peaceful retirement has been disturbed by the ruling of the European Court of Justice, backing a Nicosia court’s judgement against the British couple who had built a villa on land belonging to refugee Meletis Apostolides.

It would have been different had the case targeted Turkish Cypriots, themselves displaced or in some way victims of the long-running Cyprus conflict. But the Orams, and hundreds of others like them, are effectively guilty of buying stolen property, snatching up the cheap deal offered ‘off the back of a lorry’ while wilfully closing their eyes to the reasons for such a bargain. The least they deserve is to sweat about the future of their ill-gotten gains.

The reaction of Turkish Cypriot politicians is as predictable as it is in bad faith. To say that the welcome for the ruling in the south proves the Greek Cypriots are not serious about reunification is frankly ludicrous. What then is one to say about the orgy of construction and speculation in Greek Cypriot properties in the five years since the failed Annan plan referendum? Has that been a sign of good will? Does it show commitment to reunification in a common homeland?

Did Messrs Talat and Eroglu really expect the European Court of Justice to issue a political judgment, one that would suspend the rule of law in the name of realpolitik? Perhaps they did, much in the same way as Turkey often seems to see its harmonisation process with the European Union as a game of give and take where its strategic weight bears heavily on the scales, rather than as the wholesale adoption – without negotiation – of a body of Community law.

The truth is that the ruling is a severe blow to the north, but if anything it should add urgency to the negotiations rather than bring them to their knees. For what it shows, once again, is the unsustainability of the status quo. For those in the north who thought that in the wake of the Greek Cypriot ‘no’ they could just go it alone and raise a finger across the Green Line, it is a reminder that a future without a settlement is one of uncertainty and continued illegality in the eyes of the international community.

And while the Greek Cypriots may hail the ruling as a vindication of their rights, Meletis Apostolides will know that he is no closer to reclaiming his property than he was a week ago. As President Christofias acknowledged, the Cyprus problem will not be solved by a court decision, however favourable it may be.

Of course, the decision will affect the talks. If only for domestic political consumption, Talat and his team will have to sulk. In response, the Greek Cypriot side must resist the temptation to gloat. And we hope that after a while matters can return to normal – if there is such a thing.

But the Orams ruling must not be forgotten, for it highlights the importance of property as the issue on which any settlement will succeed or fail. One of the greatest undoings of the Annan plan lay in its property provisions, effectively asking the Greek Cypriots to pay compensation to their own refugees for land that had been seized from them by force. (At least the compensation at the so-called property commission is paid out by Turkey.)

Clearly, not all Greek Cypriot refugees will go home, but there has to be an unquestioned acknowledgment of their ownership rights, a mechanism that recognises their title to the property even if it does not necessarily allow them to occupy it, and an externally-funded compensation package that matches the value of the land lost.

If Mr Talat’s vision of a settlement is one that rides roughshod over Greek Cypriot property rights, then he must realise that it will fail. If he feels so strongly that unscrupulous British buyers should have a right to plunder Greek Cypriot property, then it should fail.

If that is the premise on which he is negotiating, then the two sides are talking at cross-purposes, and the European Court ruling is indeed a blow to the entire process. But if he is genuine in his desire for a solution, he will realise that a solution must recognise the property rights of all Cypriots. He will not waste his sympathy on undeserving expats, he will play to the gallery for a week or two, and he will return to the process with ever-greater urgency, spurred by the realisation that a legal limbo can only be to the detriment of all.

Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2009

[insan]

Put aside those "stealing" and "thieves" rhetoric, the court verdict regarding Orams Case greatly damages bi-zonality principle. That's the problem for overwhelming majority of TCs. The difficulties and infeasibility of starting from scratch for second and even third time, forcing people to leave the places they have been inhabiting for 45, 30, 20, 10 years; are other aspects that standing right in front of this meaningless court verdict.

[kurupetos]

Put aside those "stealing" and "thieves" rhetoric, the court verdict regarding Orams Case greatly damages bi-zonality principle. That's the problem for overwhelming majority of TCs. The difficulties and infeasibility of starting from scratch for second and even third time, forcing people to leave the places they have been inhabiting for 45, 30, 20, 10 years; are other aspects that standing right in front of this meaningless court verdict.

Forced bi-zonality will not work anyway! The EU acquis will cancel it. Agree?

[Hermes]

Put aside those "stealing" and "thieves" rhetoric, the court verdict regarding Orams Case greatly damages bi-zonality principle. That's the problem for overwhelming majority of TCs. The difficulties and infeasibility of starting from scratch for second and even third time, forcing people to leave the places they have been inhabiting for 45, 30, 20, 10 years; are other aspects that standing right in front of this meaningless court verdict.

For crying out loud. Can't you get it into your head that bizonality does not mean that Greek Cypriots have to give up their legal rights or ownership to their property? Do you really believe that bizonality means that T/Cs and English ex-pats get to keep what doesn't legally belong to them? Is that what you are arguing for? What kind of person can come onto a public forum and argue such a case? It's just embarrassing to have to read such stupidity. Is that a position you want Talat to bring into the talks? Have you people got no pride or dignity left? Now stop it before I think that all T/Cs really want from negotiations is to keep their ill-gotten gains at the expense of the rightful owners.

And just to clarify, if you are looking for a phrase to describe this court verdict, "meaningless" is not it. It is completely full of meaning and implication.