Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz3]

What's the matter, can't complain to me? Have to create a little more division?

My questions were to The Cypriot and about his posts and behaviours.

After years of participation on this forum , on and off, from all I have seen and in my best judgment I quite simply have nothing to say to you as an indivdual.

Having said that I am always willing to try and find a new and more constructive understanding of and interaction with anyone but such is only possible if there is will on both sides in a reciprocal manner and I doubt there is in this case. I suspect that you are more than happy with both your current view of me as an indivdual and person and the lack of any desire or motivation on my part in trying to have sensible discussions between us on here, thoughI would be more than happy to be shown to be wrong in these assumptions.

[The Cypriot]

My personal view is that what is of primary importance for us as cypriots and should be compelled by our responsibilites as cypriots for as yet unborn future cypriots is that we never repeat the mistakes of the past and find a way of today building a better future for all cypriots than we currently have.

I am in full agreement.

For me if that involves some acceptance that we must voluntarily curtail to some degree the absolute expression of our personal indivdual freedoms and rights ,

Certainly where those rights have the potential to impact on other people's rights.

As a Cypriot, however, I want the right to declare myself as such, without qualification or equivocation. And I do so. And I say so now.

so that we can create an enviroment where such things are simply no longer necessary for future generations of Cypriots, then we have to look long and hard at accepting such things.

I think I'm with you.... and I agree.

For me personal freedoms in reality extend out from the group freedom to self determination of a unitary people and the problem is that we have never had or created or even seriously tried to create a true unitary Cypriot idendtity that binds us togeather in solidarity stronger than we are bound to the respective 'motherlands'.

Actually, I have made this a bit of a personal crusade...

For me insiting on the absolute and unfettered expression of personal freedoms before creating such to any degree is trying to put the cart before the horse.

I - and others - have been working on it.

In my view given where we are today and why we must first concentrate on creating and environment whereby we have a real chance to start creating a unitary cypriot identity

The environment exists in London where a Green Line of envy and hate cannot keep us apart...

and I believe than if we sucseed in doing that, which may require some intermendiary acceptace of limits on absolute exrpression of personal freedoms, then the need and desire for such limits will naturaly and automaticaly fade away.

I am in full agreement.

I realise that for many here this may seem like sophistry

More fool them....

and they will see such arguments as an intentful and decietful attempt to try and argue that GC should accept curtailment of their indivdual personal freedoms and rights in perpetuity so TC can enjoy greater rights and freedoms than them in perpetuity.

I don't see it that way at all. There is merit in what you say.

All I can say to such critisims is that such is not my concsious intent at all. I genuinely believe that in the context of Cyprus talk of absolute exercise of personal freedoms before first sorting out this issue of group identitiy as Cypriots over Greeks and Turks is premature.

Well we all need to get cracking then and sort it out 'cos no one else is going to do it for us.

I do genuinely believe that if we can find a way fo dealing with this issue of Cypriot identity , creating an environment where we can create such an identity that is truly seprate from our historical cutural ones and genuinely inclusive regardless of it, whilst not requiring a denial of it either, then all need and desire for any limits on our personal freedoms we accept as a means to do this will simply eventualy evaporate.

Very well put, erolz. Philosophically I believe you're already there.

[Oracle]

What's the matter, can't complain to me? Have to create a little more division?

My questions were to The Cypriot and about his posts and behaviours.

After years of participation on this forum , on and off, from all I have seen and in my best judgment I quite simply have nothing to say to you as an indivdual.

Then kindly do not speak about me in the third person to others, especially when you misquote me (for which I see you have no replies).

I gathered you have trouble with a direct approach as you failed to reply to my other response regarding your confusion about EU demands.

Having said that I am always willing to try and find a new and more constructive understanding of and interaction with anyone but such is only possible if there is will on both sides in a reciprocal manner and I doubt there is in this case. I suspect that you are more than happy with both your current view of me as an indivdual and person and the lack of any desire or motivation on my part in trying to have sensible discussions between us on here, thoughI would be more than happy to be shown to be wrong in these assumptions.

I don't care about you as an "individual" as I do not know you .... You are just text to me ... and I respond according to what is written.

In future, I'll classify your posts as "read-only" since you have declared yourself a Debating Diva ... So, carry on unfettered in your propaganda spreading .....

[boomerang]

Erol said

I do genuinely believe that if we can find a way fo dealing with this issue of Cypriot identity , creating an environment where we can create such an identity that is truly seprate from our historical cutural ones and genuinely inclusive regardless of it, whilst not requiring a denial of it either, then all need and desire for any limits on our personal freedoms we accept as a means to do this will simply eventualy evaporate.

Hence why I said re name the new states something else from Greek and Turkish, to speed up the process...

[Get Real!]

I don't care about you as an "individual" as I do not know you .... You are just text to me ...

It’s funny you say that because you lot are just a bunch of pixels to me… actually make that pixies!

[erolz3]

I don't care about you as an "individual" as I do not know you ....

If you wish to change that I would be happy to meet in the real world anywhere that is convient to you, just us or in any group situation you might feel most comfortable in. Other than this offer and in light of years of seeing your text only on thnis forum I feel I have nothing to say to you as an indivdual.

Sorry but there it is.

[Oracle]

I don't care about you as an "individual" as I do not know you ....

If you wish to change that I would be happy to meet in the real world anywhere that is convient to you, just us or in any group situation you might feel most comfortable in. Other than this offer and in light of years of seeing your text only on thnis forum I feel I have nothing to say to you as an indivdual.
Sorry but there it is.

So why would you be "happy" to meet me if you have nothing to say to me?

I am happy to exchange with you in text ... but you have stated you are not prepared to do that.

That's fine, VP has declared he won't exchange with me either.

But in future, since this is a free forum, I will continue to decide whether I respond to your posts, and of course you can continue 'ignoring'. Mutual prerogatives.

However, please avoid referring to me in the third person, especially projecting your meanings onto my utterances ... otherwise we will have a repeat of this situation.

Good luck erolz since we might never 'speak' again!

Apologies to Kifeas for the deterioration of his thread; it was not my intention ... and I shall take a break (before you kick me out!).

[Oracle]

d.p.

[erolz3]

So why would you be "happy" to meet me if you have nothing to say to me?

I would be happy to meet you because through both common sense and from direct personal experience I know that the impression you have of me as an indivdual and me you fomed solely from text only discussions like these may well be extermely distorted and not everything that seems evident from such exchanges may actualy be the case. If this is the case I am more than happy to make the effort necessary to rectify this situation so that we can both better understand each other and where we are comming from as indivduals.

I am happy to exchange with you in text ... but you have stated you are not prepared to do that.

However, please avoid referring to me in the third person, ...

In the absense of an opportunity to better understand you as a person through a face to face meeting and after years of trying to discus with you in a text only medium I have no desire and see no point in talking TO YOU. I reserve my rights to talk ABOUT you and the things you have said or may yet say and how I interpret them, should I think doing so is necessary to make a point I wish to make.

I too applogise to Kifeas and all those other posters that have tried to contribute constructively to the discusssion Kifeas has started here and in the spirit in which he obviously started it, for this largely irrelevant distraction.

[erolz3]

Actually, I have made this a bit of a personal crusade...

[snip]

I - and others - have been working on it.

[snip]

Well we all need to get cracking then and sort it out 'cos no one else is going to do it for us.

If you ever think that I as an indivdual can be of any assitance in this in any specific ways and help with the 'getting craking on' then please please do drop me a line.