Cyprus-Forum.com

[The Cypriot]

dp

[The Cypriot]

So go ahead and build trust, you are not doing a very good job and continue to contirbute to the negativity you sense yourself.

I sense it in particular with you and challenge it. My challenging negativity is not evidence of my negativity. This is the spurious argument which you always adopt. (Remember Jack Palance? "See he had a gun?")

Arent we all allowed our opinions are they wrong becuase they do not conform to yours?

Actually, you should ask that question to the controlling regime you're living under to at this time... But aside from that, I'm making the point that this thread is meant to be constructive and you've been undermining it.

46 years of partition and failed plans proves me right, what proof have you got?

Let's look to the future not argue about the past. Let's not fall into your trap. Don't make me despise you so that you can say, "see he despises me"?

Only after taking it (the knife) out of my back where you put it.

Does 'you' refer to me as an individual? I've targetted and am trying to 'cut through' your negativity. Stop playing this game.

Do you deny there is a chasm?

Yes.

our leaders support what I say and not you...the trust does not mean shoving yourdemands down our throats, you have tocome to terms with what Kifeas stated at the opening of this thread.

All I've asked for – admittedly quite forcefully in an attempt to try and get through to you – is for you to be more constructive.

Try me, say something to build trust and I will do the same in return, if you are capable.

I can see where you've been coming from, and I understand the roll you've been trying to play. Let's move on now.

I feel I have to remind you once more insults are the lowest form of intelligence, could you refrain from the insults and sarcasm..the forum doesnt need it.

OK. You refrain from your annoying, divisive negativity and I promise to reciprocate with your request. I am not by nature an insulting or sarcastic individual. And I am interested in securing justice for all those who consider themselves Cypriots. Including you.

[erolz3]

This thread is about building trust so stop interfering with your negativity. Your role is to undermine any signs of trust as soon as it appears; to the detriment of all Cypriots.

The Cypriot my own personal perception of your sincerity about this would be greatly enhanced if you were to also deal with negativity of comments like those from Oracle that seek to me to do just what you accuse VP off here. First the claim that any compromise would be a betrayal of yet born (Greek) Cypriot children, and argument that any TC could also make and can lead nowhere sensible, and then the down right racist and pointless assertion that people in Turkey are not even Human Beings. How compatible are these posts with an objective of building trust in your view ?

No true Cypriot will agree to partition their homeland so this is a non-starter.

Would a true Cypriot agree to the destruction of their homeland as a nation and a state and the denial of the existance of a Cypriot people ? Is not every assertion that enosis was and is a legitimate desire of a unitary Cypriot people not destructive of trust ?

[miltiades]

This thread is about building trust so stop interfering with your negativity. Your role is to undermine any signs of trust as soon as it appears; to the detriment of all Cypriots.

The Cypriot my own personal perception of your sincerity about this would be greatly enhanced if you were to also deal with negativity of comments like those from Oracle that seek to me to do just what you accuse VP off here. First the claim that any compromise would be a betrayal of yet born (Greek) Cypriot children, and argument that any TC could also make and can lead nowhere sensible, and then the down right racist and pointless assertion that people in Turkey are not even Human Beings. How compatible are these posts with an objective of building trust in your view ?

No true Cypriot will agree to partition their homeland so this is a non-starter.

Would a true Cypriot agree to the destruction of their homeland as a nation and a state and the denial of the existance of a Cypriot people ? Is not every assertion that enosis was and is a legitimate desire of a unitary Cypriot people not destructive of trust ?

No true Cypriot would deny his compatriot the right to exist as an independent Cypriot within the boundaries of what is after all the homeland of the indigenous populace of Cypriots , all Cypriots , the G/Cs , T/Cs and all other Cypriots , all bonded together by their natural homeland the island of Cyprus.
No part of the Cypriot's homeland belongs to anyone else but the Cypriots .
ps.
erolz , you are a fine man a decent Cypriot and one that I would be proud to introduce to any one as my compatriot .

[The Cypriot]

The Cypriot my own personal perception of your sincerity about this would be greatly enhanced if you were to also deal with negativity of comments like those from Oracle that seek to me to do just what you accuse VP off here.

Hi erolz... I've not been participating here for that long but in the last few weeks I have locked horns with Oracle and others on a number of fundamental issues; and believe me I've pulled no punches. I've been focusing on VP just recently because he/she has been particularly annoying and also in an endeavour to be balanced. I'm not discerning, erolz. Anyone who undermines the cause of a reunited Cyprus where the human rights of all its people are respected is fair game as far as I'm concerned.

First the claim that any compromise would be a betrayal of yet born (Greek) Cypriot children,

Compromise is a fact of life. It need not be a betrayal. But anything that, in the long term, restricts the human rights of Cypriots not yet born would certainly be a betrayal. Going forward I'd like the children of Cyprus to have the same rights as any EU citizen.

and argument that any TC could also make and can lead nowhere sensible, and then the down right racist and pointless assertion that people in Turkey are not even Human Beings.

I have condemned this quite forcefully quite a few times and have no hesitation in doing so now.

How compatible are these posts with an objective of building trust in your view ?

They are not.

Would a true Cypriot agree to the destruction of their homeland as a nation and a state and the denial of the existance of a Cypriot people ?

No they would not. That would be anathema to a true Cypriot.

Is not every assertion that enosis was and is a legitimate desire of a unitary Cypriot people not destructive of trust ?

Yes it is.

[Oracle]

What's the matter, can't complain to me? Have to create a little more division?

The Cypriot my own personal perception of your sincerity about this would be greatly enhanced if you were to also deal with negativity of comments like those from Oracle that seek to me to do just what you accuse VP off here

Do you agree VP calls for partition?

Have I ever suggested partition?

Have I ever suggested parting with even a percentage?

So, how am I the same as VP?

First the claim that any compromise would be a betrayal of yet born (Greek) Cypriot children,

Where have I said "any compromise" is a betrayal?

... or are you another who wants our Rights compromised so that you can have a bigger share?

and argument that any TC could also make and can lead nowhere sensible, and then the down right racist and pointless assertion that people in Turkey are not even Human Beings. How compatible are these posts with an objective of building trust in your view ?

Again you are distorting for dramatic effect. A Human being is judged by his behaviour. Right now .... I am disgusted by the Turks' behaviour. You like it I guess ... hence why you object to me.

But thanks for letting us know how much you would rush to the aid of VP ....

[YFred]

This thread is about building trust so stop interfering with your negativity. Your role is to undermine any signs of trust as soon as it appears; to the detriment of all Cypriots.

The Cypriot my own personal perception of your sincerity about this would be greatly enhanced if you were to also deal with negativity of comments like those from Oracle that seek to me to do just what you accuse VP off here. First the claim that any compromise would be a betrayal of yet born (Greek) Cypriot children, and argument that any TC could also make and can lead nowhere sensible, and then the down right racist and pointless assertion that people in Turkey are not even Human Beings. How compatible are these posts with an objective of building trust in your view ?

No true Cypriot will agree to partition their homeland so this is a non-starter.

Would a true Cypriot agree to the destruction of their homeland as a nation and a state and the denial of the existance of a Cypriot people ? Is not every assertion that enosis was and is a legitimate desire of a unitary Cypriot people not destructive of trust ?

Erol please don't take the Queen Horakill too seriously, no one else does. Being typical Cypriot they are too afraid to chalenge her. You know, its a Cypriot thing, woman takes control after the age of 60.

[kurupetos]

This thread is about building trust so stop interfering with your negativity. Your role is to undermine any signs of trust as soon as it appears; to the detriment of all Cypriots.

The Cypriot my own personal perception of your sincerity about this would be greatly enhanced if you were to also deal with negativity of comments like those from Oracle that seek to me to do just what you accuse VP off here. First the claim that any compromise would be a betrayal of yet born (Greek) Cypriot children, and argument that any TC could also make and can lead nowhere sensible, and then the down right racist and pointless assertion that people in Turkey are not even Human Beings. How compatible are these posts with an objective of building trust in your view ?

No true Cypriot will agree to partition their homeland so this is a non-starter.

Would a true Cypriot agree to the destruction of their homeland as a nation and a state and the denial of the existance of a Cypriot people ? Is not every assertion that enosis was and is a legitimate desire of a unitary Cypriot people not destructive of trust ?

Erol please don't take the Queen Horakill too seriously, no one else does. Being typical Cypriot they are too afraid to chalenge her. You know, its a Cypriot thing, woman takes control after the age of 60.

sounds funny coming from you!

[YFred]

This thread is about building trust so stop interfering with your negativity. Your role is to undermine any signs of trust as soon as it appears; to the detriment of all Cypriots.

The Cypriot my own personal perception of your sincerity about this would be greatly enhanced if you were to also deal with negativity of comments like those from Oracle that seek to me to do just what you accuse VP off here. First the claim that any compromise would be a betrayal of yet born (Greek) Cypriot children, and argument that any TC could also make and can lead nowhere sensible, and then the down right racist and pointless assertion that people in Turkey are not even Human Beings. How compatible are these posts with an objective of building trust in your view ?

No true Cypriot will agree to partition their homeland so this is a non-starter.

Would a true Cypriot agree to the destruction of their homeland as a nation and a state and the denial of the existance of a Cypriot people ? Is not every assertion that enosis was and is a legitimate desire of a unitary Cypriot people not destructive of trust ?

Erol please don't take the Queen Horakill too seriously, no one else does. Being typical Cypriot they are too afraid to chalenge her. You know, its a Cypriot thing, woman takes control after the age of 60.

sounds funny coming from you!

Thanks betraki, my life time ambition has been achieved

[erolz3]

I'm not discerning, erolz.

and I am happy to take you at your word on that. For my part my recent participation on this forum once again is even newer than yours and I was evaluating your 'balance' solely on contributions within this thread, which like yourself I consider important and the original spirit of which I support and thank and had already thanked Kifeas for.

Compromise is a fact of life. It need not be a betrayal. But anything that, in the long term, restricts the human rights of Cypriots not yet born would certainly be a betrayal. Going forward I'd like the children of Cyprus to have the same rights as any EU citizen.

My personal view is that what is of primary importance for us as cypriots and should be compelled by our responsibilites as cypriots for as yet unborn future cypriots is that we never repeat the mistakes of the past and find a way of today building a better future for all cypriots than we currently have. For me if that involves some acceptance that we must voluntarily curtail to some degree the absolute expression of our personal indivdual freedoms and rights , so that we can create an enviroment where such things are simply no longer necessary for future generations of Cypriots, then we have to look long and hard at accepting such things.

For me personal freedoms in reality extend out from the group freedom to self determination of a unitary people and the problem is that we have never had or created or even seriously tried to create a true unitary Cypriot idendtity that binds us togeather in solidarity stronger than we are bound to the respective 'motherlands'. For me insiting on the absolute and unfettered expression of personal freedoms before creating such to any degree is trying to put the cart before the horse. In my view given where we are today and why we must first concentrate on creating and environment whereby we have a real chance to start creating a unitary cypriot identity and I believe than if we sucseed in doing that, which may require some intermendiary acceptace of limits on absolute exrpression of personal freedoms, then the need and desire for such limits will naturaly and automaticaly fade away.

I realise that for many here this may seem like sophistry and they will see such arguments as an intentful and decietful attempt to try and argue that GC should accept curtailment of their indivdual personal freedoms and rights in perpetuity so TC can enjoy greater rights and freedoms than them in perpetuity.

All I can say to such critisims is that such is not my concsious intent at all. I genuinely believe that in the context of Cyprus talk of absolute exercise of personal freedoms before first sorting out this issue of group identitiy as Cypriots over Greeks and Turks is premature. Nor do I actualy believe in the total absolutism of indivdual rights and freedoms. I believe in the right to free movement but I accept that there are in reality limits to such and indeed should be. Even in the UK there are places that I am not allowed to freely goto or travel in. I believe in the right to life but do not believe that I have a right to have my life extended to the absolute limits of what is scientificaly possible at any cost to the state what so ever. I believe in the right to political freedom but I also believe that it can be in extreme situations justified for the state to outlaw a given political party.

I do genuinely believe that if we can find a way fo dealing with this issue of Cypriot identity , creating an environment where we can create such an identity that is truly seprate from our historical cutural ones and genuinely inclusive regardless of it, whilst not requiring a denial of it either, then all need and desire for any limits on our personal freedoms we accept as a means to do this will simply eventualy evaporate.