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The Hellenisation of Cyprus

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Simon » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:01 pm

Get Real! wrote:Barouti, in a nutshell your response is…

“Everything GR says is stupid and I’m very clever! I rest my case!”

…so I predict you’ll become very popular here among the Greek nationalists, because that’s all they’ve managed here too all these years! Image


PS: Here’s another “stupid” article you need not counter…

http://thecyprusproblem.100webspace.net ... icle03.htm

Just call it stupid and you win this argument too! :wink:


GR, on your website you claim that modern day Cypriots descend from Choirokoitians. However, you fail to note an important point:

"The village of Khirokitia was suddenly abandoned for reasons unknown at around 6000 BC and it seems that the island remained uninhabited for about 1.500 years until the next recorded entity, the Sotira group".

http://www.mlahanas.de/Cyprus/Geo/Choirokoitia.html

"The brilliant civilisation vanished suddenly, and no adequate explanation has been given regarding its disappearance. Choirokoitia, like other aceramic sites on the island, was abandoned and the island appears to have remained free from human presence for a long time, until the emergence of a new civilisation: the Ceramic Neolithic".

http://www.cyprus.gov.cy/portal/portal. ... enDocument

Choirokoitians ceased to exist a long time before the Greeks arrived. So how can modern day Cypriots descend from them? The Choirokoitians' numbers were also very small, a few hundred at most.

Allow me to pre-empt your response, which is one you have used previously, namely, that the island only APPEARS to have remained free of human habitation. My riposte is that this is patently a non-argument. It would be the equivalent of me arguing that fairies exist because you can't prove they don't. :lol:

Yes, Cyprus was partially populated when the Greeks arrived. But large areas were not. The Greeks founded many cities, colonised the island and incorporated it into the Greek world.
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Postby Get Real! » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:07 pm

Simon wrote:Choirokoitians ceased to exist a long time before the Greeks arrived.

That's based on your assumption that missing pieces of the jigsaw puzzle do not exist. The research into the early history of Cyprus is ongoing and most incomplete.
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Postby Simon » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:16 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Simon wrote:Choirokoitians ceased to exist a long time before the Greeks arrived.

That's based on your assumption that missing pieces of the jigsaw puzzle do not exist. The research into the early history of Cyprus is ongoing and most incomplete.


No GR, the evidence shows that the Choirokoitians' civilisation ended. It is not me who says this but the experts.

If you have any evidence proving otherwise, please share it, otherwise, excuse me for not taking you seriously.

You're stating something without any evidence from what you're assuming are "missing pieces".

A little tip GR, before you claim something as fact (as you have on your website and on this forum) you need compelling evidence first.
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Postby Get Real! » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:22 pm

Simon wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Simon wrote:Choirokoitians ceased to exist a long time before the Greeks arrived.

That's based on your assumption that missing pieces of the jigsaw puzzle do not exist. The research into the early history of Cyprus is ongoing and most incomplete.


No GR, the evidence shows that the Choirokoitians' civilisation ended. It is not me who says this but the experts.

If you have any evidence proving otherwise, please share it, otherwise, excuse me for not taking you seriously.

You're stating something without any evidence from what you're assuming are "missing pieces".

A little tip GR, before you claim something as fact (as you have on your website and on this forum) you need compelling evidence first.

You’ve already mentioned yourself that the Sotira civilization was unearthed dating some 1500 years after the Choirokitian!

So where did the Sotira people come from if they’re not a continuation of the Choirokitians? Just because we haven’t found the settlements of the years in between yet doesn’t mean they don’t exist, because you would then have to explain how and why the Sotira people got there! :lol:
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Postby Simon » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:39 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Simon wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Simon wrote:Choirokoitians ceased to exist a long time before the Greeks arrived.

That's based on your assumption that missing pieces of the jigsaw puzzle do not exist. The research into the early history of Cyprus is ongoing and most incomplete.


No GR, the evidence shows that the Choirokoitians' civilisation ended. It is not me who says this but the experts.

If you have any evidence proving otherwise, please share it, otherwise, excuse me for not taking you seriously.

You're stating something without any evidence from what you're assuming are "missing pieces".

A little tip GR, before you claim something as fact (as you have on your website and on this forum) you need compelling evidence first.

You’ve already mentioned yourself that the Sotira civilization was unearthed dating some 1500 years after the Choirokitian!

So where did the Sotira people come from if they’re not a continuation of the Choirokitians? Just because we haven’t found the settlements of the years in between yet doesn’t mean they don’t exist, because you would then have to explain how and why the Sotira people got there! :lol:


GR, the Sotira people were a new civilisation. The link I gave you from the Cyprus Government website confirms this. Choirokoitia was long abandoned by the time they showed up. A 1500 year gap is massive.

The Sotira people probably emigrated to Cyprus, like everyone else. That would be the most logical explanation, in the absence of any other evidence. There is no evidence suggesting that these two people were related or that there was a continuance. So you can't state something as fact with no evidence.

Like I stated earlier, your philosophy is akin to me saying that fairies exist. Just because we haven't found evidence yet, it doesn't mean we won't. :lol:
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Postby Get Real! » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:46 pm

Simon wrote:The Sotira people probably emigrated to Cyprus, like everyone else. That would be the most logical explanation, in the absence of any other evidence. There is no evidence suggesting that these two people were related or that there was a continuance. So you can't state something as fact with no evidence.

You seem so eager to always introduce foreigners to replace the native Cypriots without the slightest shred of evidence of that ever happening, just because a perfect continuity hasn’t been unearthed yet!

Is this about Cyprus or about you Simon? :lol:
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Postby Simon » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:55 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Simon wrote:The Sotira people probably emigrated to Cyprus, like everyone else. That would be the most logical explanation, in the absence of any other evidence. There is no evidence suggesting that these two people were related or that there was a continuance. So you can't state something as fact with no evidence.

You seem so eager to always introduce foreigners to replace the native Cypriots without the slightest shred of evidence of that ever happening, just because a perfect continuity hasn’t been unearthed yet!

Is this about Cyprus or about you Simon? :lol:


GR, I am eager to introduce common sense into your psyche.

If the evidence is telling us that the Sotira people suddenly appeared from nowhere, then common sense dictates that they emigrated to Cyprus from abroad. You are trying to say they descend from the Choirokoitians, when the evidence shows that Choirokoitia ceased to exist 1500 years earlier, with no other evidence of human existence in Cyprus!

When you have the slightest shred of evidence that the Choirokoitians and Sotirans were connected, let me know! :lol:
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Postby Get Real! » Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:03 am

Simon wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Simon wrote:The Sotira people probably emigrated to Cyprus, like everyone else. That would be the most logical explanation, in the absence of any other evidence. There is no evidence suggesting that these two people were related or that there was a continuance. So you can't state something as fact with no evidence.

You seem so eager to always introduce foreigners to replace the native Cypriots without the slightest shred of evidence of that ever happening, just because a perfect continuity hasn’t been unearthed yet!

Is this about Cyprus or about you Simon? :lol:


GR, I am eager to introduce common sense into your psyche.

If the evidence is telling us that the Sotira people suddenly appeared from nowhere, then common sense dictates that they emigrated to Cyprus from abroad. You are trying to say they descend from the Choirokoitians, when the evidence shows that Choirokoitia ceased to exist 1500 years earlier, with no other evidence of human existence in Cyprus!

When you have the slightest shred of evidence that the Choirokoitians and Sotirans were connected, let me know! :lol:

No, we simply haven't figured things out yet Simon so QUIT MANUFACTURING the missing bits yourself! Just give it up!

Greek nationalists are always hell-bent on removing Cypriots from Cyprus and replacing them with Greeks! Such is their love for all things Cypriot! :lol:

But then again… if they do not accomplish that their “Hellenization of Cyprus” mythology falls flat on its face! Image
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Postby Simon » Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:28 am

Get Real! wrote:
Simon wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
Simon wrote:The Sotira people probably emigrated to Cyprus, like everyone else. That would be the most logical explanation, in the absence of any other evidence. There is no evidence suggesting that these two people were related or that there was a continuance. So you can't state something as fact with no evidence.

You seem so eager to always introduce foreigners to replace the native Cypriots without the slightest shred of evidence of that ever happening, just because a perfect continuity hasn’t been unearthed yet!

Is this about Cyprus or about you Simon? :lol:


GR, I am eager to introduce common sense into your psyche.

If the evidence is telling us that the Sotira people suddenly appeared from nowhere, then common sense dictates that they emigrated to Cyprus from abroad. You are trying to say they descend from the Choirokoitians, when the evidence shows that Choirokoitia ceased to exist 1500 years earlier, with no other evidence of human existence in Cyprus!

When you have the slightest shred of evidence that the Choirokoitians and Sotirans were connected, let me know! :lol:


No, we simply haven't figured things out yet Simon so QUIT MANUFACTURING the missing bits yourself! Just give it up!

Greek nationalists are always hell-bent on removing Cypriots from Cyprus and replacing them with Greeks! Such is their love for all things Cypriot! :lol:

But then again… if they do not accomplish that their “Hellenization of Cyprus” mythology falls flat on its face! Image


No GR, you haven't figured things out yet. You think we haven't figured things out because it disagrees with your version of history. :lol:

The links I have provided show that the Choirokoitians ceased to exist well before the Sotira people arrived! If you don't believe this GR, take it up with the Cyprus Government and the archeologists, not "Greek nationalists". :roll:

The Sotira civilisation appeared 1500 years later when there were apparently no people living in Cyprus. We can only go by the evidence we have today GR, we can't invent facts based on the evidence you hope to find in the future. I don't think you've quite grasped this yet GR.

I am not manufactering anything myself. I am going by the evidence:

"The aceramic civilisation of Cyprus came to an end quite abruptly around 6000 BC. It was probably followed by a vacuum of almost 1.500 years until around 4500 BC when one sees the emergence of Neolithic II (Ceramic Neolithic).

At this time newcomers arrived in Cyprus introducing a new Neolithic era. The main settlement that embodies most of the characteristics of the period is Sotira near the south coast of Cyprus."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistori ... _Neolithic

This is supporting exactly what I said, "newcomers arrived in Cyprus".

Wikipedia uses the following as References:

Veronica Tatton-Brown, Cyprus BC, 7000 Years of History (London, British Museum 1979).
Stuart Swiny (2001) Earliest Prehistory of Cyprus, American School of Oriental Research ISBN 0-89757-051-0
J. M. Webb and D. Frankel, Characterising the Philia facies. Material culture, chronology and the origins of the Bronze Age in Cyprus. American Journal of Archaeology 103, 1999, 3-43.
S. Gitin, A. Mazar, E. Stern (eds.), Mediterranean peoples in transition, thirteenth to early 10th century BC (Jerusalem, Israel exploration Society 1998). Late Bronze Age and transition to the Iron Age.
J. D. Muhly, The role of the Sea People in Cyprus during the LCIII period. In: V. Karageorghis/J. D. Muhly (eds), Cyprus at the close of the Bronze Age (Nicosia 1984), 39-55. End of Bronze Age

External links:
http://www.ancientcyprus.ac.uk/sites/py ... oraki.html
Archaeology and history of Cyprus
Deneia Bronze Age pottery [2]
Ancient History of Cyprus, by Cypriot government.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Cyprus"
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Re: The Hellenisation of Cyprus

Postby supporttheunderdog » Thu May 31, 2012 12:04 am

And now the concept of Mycenaeans is under attack as being a modern construct....

See: http://arts.monash.edu.au/publications/ ... dleton.php
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