The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


What Happens Next ?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

What Happens Next ?

Postby insan » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:51 pm

What Happens Next ?

1. It should be noted that the judgment of the EU does not rule on the intrinsic merits of the Apostolides vs Orams case. The judgement is a response to the queries raised by Lord Phillips of the UK Appeal Court.

2. The appeal of Mr Apostolides in the UK can now re-commence and Lord Phillips will have the benefit of the advice from the ECJ to assist in his deliberations.


Linda & David Orams
3. If the UK Court of Appeal follows the advice of the ECJ, they will agree to register the judgments of the court of South Cyprus which found in favour of Mr Apostolides. At this stage, it is likely that the Orams would be granted leave to appeal to the House of Lords. This will prolong the matter for several years.

4. If Mr Apostolides, at the end of the UK appeal process, is successful in registering the judgment of the South Cyprus courts, then he can make an application to the UK courts for the Orams to demolish the house in Lapta, North Cyprus and pay him compensation. If the Orams fail to comply, then he can make a further application to a UK court so that their assets in the UK are seized.


Technical Points

1. Regulation 44/2001 is limited to civil and commercial matters. It does not extend to ‘revenue, customs or administrative matters.' The ECJ recognises, in para 40 of the judgment, that it could be argued that the Apostolides vs Orams dispute is not simply a civil dispute between two parties.

This is an understatement. It is generally agreed that the dispute has been promoted and financed by the authorities of South Cyprus and that the defence of the case against the Orams has been financed by North Cyprus and/or Turkey. Mr Apostolides and the Orams are considered mere pawns in a larger game.

The penultimate paragraph of the ECJ ruling on this matter, para 45, concludes that the case is between individuals and that no public authorities are involved. The costs alone of the case to date discredit this opinion, and the ECJ could be challenged on this point.

2. The process of law in South Cyprus could and has been challenged by the lawyers defending the Orams. The writ was handed to Mrs Orams at Lapta, but she did not sign for it. The papers were written in Greek and it took Mrs Orams some time to have them translated, by which time a default judgment had been made.

These issues, and several others, could lead one to the view that the Orams' rights were infringed by the courts of South Cyprus.

3. The default judgment of the South Cyprus court orders the Orams, among other things, ‘to deliver to Mr Apostolides free possession of the land'. It is not within the power of Linda Orams to comply with this ruling.

It is generally accepted that Linda & David Orams bought and paid for the land and property in accordance with the regulations of the TRNC, and that the land and transaction was registered with the TRNC authorities. TRNC title deeds are guaranteed by the TRNC authorities and it is not within the power of Linda Orams to rescind a TRNC title deed in favour of Mr Apostolides. Her inability to comply with the judgment undermines the ruling.

The TRNC authorities have established an Immovable Properties Commission to deal with claims by dispossessed Greek Cypriots, and this would be the appropriate body to deal with Mr Apostolides' claim.

4. Article 34 of 44/2001 states that a judgment shall not be recognised ‘if such recognition is manifestly contrary to public policy in the Member State in which recognition is sought.' In this regard, the Member State is the UK.

A convincing case could be made that registration of the judgment in the UK is indeed contrary to public policy. The UK government is a guarantor power with respect to Cyprus, and administered the island until 1960. The UK has supported efforts to end the international isolation of North Cyprus and supported the Annan Plan for the re-unification of the island.

One could argue that the issues raised by the Apostolides vs Orams case should be resolved by a comprehensive political settlement rather than a series of legal rulings which emanate from a partisan court. Therefore, registration of the judgment would be contrary to UK public policy.

Strategic Options

1. The fact that the ECJ considers the inability of the government of South Cyprus to enforce its authority in the North as a temporary situation is a major problem.

The leaders of the two communities have given credence to this view by their continued meetings and positive statements concerning a unified Cyprus.

Following the April 2009 elections in North Cyprus, the National Unity Party (UBP) won 44% of the vote and the incoming administration is less optimistic as to the possibility of a positive outcome to these negotiations. The UBP favours a two state solution.

If the temporary partition of Cyprus becomes permanent and there is a request for recognition of a separate state, the EU will be forced to review and possibly abandon its recognition of the government of the Greek Republic of Cyprus as the legitimate ruling body of the entire island.

2. The rights of dispossessed persons is an issue which affects Turkish Cypriots who lost land and property in South Cyprus, in addition to Greek Cypriots who lost land in the North.

It would be useful for several significant claims to be lodged by Turkish Cypriots with the European Court of Human Rights in order to dispel the myth that it is only Greek Cypriots who have been dispossessed. It is generally considered that Larnaca Airport is build on Turkish Cypriot land, and this would be a useful target.

In addition to promoting any such claims to the European Court of Human Rights, an application to the courts of South Cyprus could be made in order to provide publicity for this issue.

Conclusion

The Greek Cypriot case has undoubtedly been strengthened by this ruling. The immediate impact will be to discourage EU nationals from purchasing property in North Cyprus. This will have a significant impact on the already fragile North Cyprus economy and tax revenues.

While there will undoubtedly be jubilation in sections of the Greek Cypriot government and media, this is a sad day for Cyprus. The Orams ruling, following on from the victory of the UBP in the election, marks a watershed in the history of the island.

For the last 10 years there has been hope that the island would be re-united, and there remain people within both communities who embrace this dream. Despite the rejection by the Greek Cypriots of the Annan Plan, the Turkish Cypriot community continued to support efforts to negotiate a settlement and were prepared to make significant sacrifices of land and property to this end.

The tide of public opinion in the North is now turning, and the window of opportunity for a united Cyprus is closing. Permanent partition and a proposal for a two state solution are in the ascendancy.

Copyright © Leslie Hardy – 29 April 2009

http://www.wellestates.com/orams_ecj.htm

----------------------------- 0000000000000000000 --------------------------


The tide of public opinion in the North is now turning, and the window of opportunity for a united Cyprus is closing. Permanent partition and a proposal for a two state solution are in the ascendancy.

After the 46 years of failure of the efforts to reconcile Turks and Hellenes; partition is what "they" want but don't propose it officially for some well known reasons.

As usual, it is better to create the suitable circumstances that will lead both sides asking for partition.

Step 1 of final stage of partition has been completed.
User avatar
insan
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 9044
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:33 pm
Location: Somewhere in ur network. ;]

Postby Raymanoff » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:54 pm

this is not your call Insan... we are the ones to say wether a window of opportunity is closing or not. Your job is to sit tight and wait...
User avatar
Raymanoff
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2119
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:36 pm
Location: Vraxonisida

Postby humanist » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:00 pm

a proposal of two state solution which the majority of Cypriots will not agree too. HHHmmmmmmmm here goes another 30 years because the TC much rather sell themselves to Turkey and whore themnselves to the British than do the right thing and return what is not theirs back to the rightful owners.
User avatar
humanist
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 6585
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:46 am

Postby T_C » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:04 pm

Raymanoff wrote:this is not your call Insan... we are the ones to say wether a window of opportunity is closing or not. Your job is to sit tight and wait...


:lol:

Are you for real? :? :lol:
User avatar
T_C
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 3513
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:16 am
Location: London

Postby eracles » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:20 pm

Sorry Insan, but you're posting an article from some dodgy estate agent. Why? And why would Turkish Cypriots turn away from a solution - because ownership of land and property is respected, at least by someone?
User avatar
eracles
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 457
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 5:36 pm
Location: Leeds, UK

Postby insan » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:46 pm

eracles wrote:Sorry Insan, but you're posting an article from some dodgy estate agent. Why? And why would Turkish Cypriots turn away from a solution - because ownership of land and property is respected, at least by someone?


I posted it bcz I share the same opinion with the author. Eracles, u know the principle of bi-zonality was accepted by the leadership of 2 communities in 1975 and the following talks/negotiations based on BBF. As I previously stated, a bi-communal properties board should have been established in 1975 to solve the properties issue. Since they agreed on BBF, it was obvious that not all of the GC refugees would be able to return. So why didn't the leadership of 2 communities make their priority solving the property issues of all refugees until a solution is found? Had they established such a bi-communal properties board, vast majority of TCs would have got a chance to exchange their properties with the properties belong to GC(assuming at least 1/3 of GC refugees would agree to exchange their properties). In such a case, TCs would sell their own property to whoever they wished.

In 35 years time, the property problem of 2/3 of the all refugees could have been solved.

Today, negotiations might have been carried out without such discouraging and resenting incidents.

Wouldn't it be good? Had it been done, the properties problem of 2/3 of all refugees would have been solved. Instead of settlers from Turkey, most of the diaspora TCs would have returned and not emigrated in the last 35 years. Varosha, Morphou and many villages would have been returned returned to GC administration.

Today, there might have been just several issues remained to negotiate for a federal solution backed by happier Cypriots.
User avatar
insan
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 9044
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:33 pm
Location: Somewhere in ur network. ;]

Postby Oracle » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:19 am

Surely as matters unfold, you must be realising that you have never called the shots, let alone now! :lol:

We are going for nothing less than full re-unification of our Island under Democratic one-man-one vote ethics ... and we could not care less if there was only ONE TC left by then! 8)
User avatar
Oracle
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 23507
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:13 am
Location: Anywhere but...

Postby insan » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:24 am

Oracle wrote:Surely as matters unfold, you must be realising that you have never called the shots, let alone now! :lol:

We are going for nothing less than full re-unification of our Island under Democratic one-man-one vote ethics ... and we could not care less if there was only ONE TC left by then! 8)


"U" better prepare urself for a bitter partition. First, u need to go for a check-up bcz it might cause u a heart attack. :lol:
User avatar
insan
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 9044
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:33 pm
Location: Somewhere in ur network. ;]

Postby Hatter » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:03 am

insan wrote:
Oracle wrote:Surely as matters unfold, you must be realising that you have never called the shots, let alone now! :lol:

We are going for nothing less than full re-unification of our Island under Democratic one-man-one vote ethics ... and we could not care less if there was only ONE TC left by then! 8)


"U" better prepare urself for a bitter partition. First, u need to go for a check-up bcz it might cause u a heart attack. :lol:


Partition ain't gona happen, Insan. You had better wake up and smell the coffee.
Hatter
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 287
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:52 am

Postby insan » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:07 am

Hatter wrote:
insan wrote:
Oracle wrote:Surely as matters unfold, you must be realising that you have never called the shots, let alone now! :lol:

We are going for nothing less than full re-unification of our Island under Democratic one-man-one vote ethics ... and we could not care less if there was only ONE TC left by then! 8)


"U" better prepare urself for a bitter partition. First, u need to go for a check-up bcz it might cause u a heart attack. :lol:


Partition ain't gona happen, Insan. You had better wake up and smell the coffee.


Partition is what will happen. Everything indicates we r going through a partition and it will be clearer in few months time, even the lamers will realize. Partition will happen not bcz I and "they" wish so but bcz of "they" couldn't manage to reconcile Hellenes and Turks; besides the incapability of Hellenes and Turks to reconcile. "They" always choose the feasible and most pragmatic ways, so do I.
User avatar
insan
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 9044
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:33 pm
Location: Somewhere in ur network. ;]

Next

Return to Cyprus Problem

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest