Cyprus-Forum.com

[yiannisP]

I see, we only apply the laws that suits us. Do GC have no respect for Data Protection Act. It is EU wide! Or is it just an inconveneance?

Data protection doesn't operate to protect the identity of those suspected of illegal activity. Also, in the interests of justice we are entitled to know who is personally benefiting from the theft of properties.

[YFred]

I see, we only apply the laws that suits us. Do GC have no respect for Data Protection Act. It is EU wide! Or is it just an inconveneance?

Data protection doesn't apply to protect the identity of those suspected of illegal activity. Also, in the interests of justice we are entitled to know who is personally benefiting from the theft of properties.

In TRNC they are not classified as thieves hence it does apply. We are law abiding people.

[Hermes]

You do not have to 'benefit' from EU grants etc to be obliged to obey the Law, erol!

Absolutely right, Oracle. I don't think the T/Cs get it. What is crucial about this judgement is that it validates the courts of the Republic of Cyprus in the north. It abolishes any claim to sovereignty of the TRNC. The EU comes into play because the judgement cannot be enforced due to the occupation. Just because the Turkish army currently occupies Cypriot territory, it does not mean that Cypriot law cannot apply in the occupied areas. It can and it does.

[Hermes]

In TRNC they are not classified as thieves hence it does apply. We are law abiding people.

My dear YFred, you are clearly not a lawyer. Just in case you don't get it, let me spell it out for you. The ECJ judgement means that it is the courts of the Republic of Cyprus who decide who is a thief and who is not. An accused thief cannot decide for himself whether he is innocent or not. Otherwise he would be innocent every time. Do you not understand this very simple point?

[Oracle]

You do not have to 'benefit' from EU grants etc to be obliged to obey the Law, erol!

Absolutely right, Oracle. I don't think the T/Cs get it. What is crucial about this judgement is that it validates the courts of the Republic of Cyprus in the north. It abolishes any claim to sovereignty of the TRNC. The EU comes into play because the judgement cannot be enforced due to the occupation. Just because the Turkish army currently occupies Cypriot territory, it does not mean that Cypriot law cannot apply in the occupied areas. It can and it does.

And I'd like to thank you for highlighting the relevant Cyprus Mail quote and explaining clearly what it meant, making it obvious how it invalidates erolz's demands for EU benefits before being subject to Laws.

Carry on the good work of elucidating this quagmire of legal jargon surrounding the ruling, for the benefit of us all ....

[CopperLine]

You do not have to 'benefit' from EU grants etc to be obliged to obey the Law, erol!

Absolutely right, Oracle. I don't think the T/Cs get it. What is crucial about this judgement is that it validates the courts of the Republic of Cyprus in the north. It abolishes any claim to sovereignty of the TRNC. The EU comes into play because the judgement cannot be enforced due to the occupation. Just because the Turkish army currently occupies Cypriot territory, it does not mean that Cypriot law cannot apply in the occupied areas. It can and it does.

Hermes,
You wrote

What is crucial about this judgement is that it validates the courts of the Republic of Cyprus in the north.

No it doesn't. Nothing in this judgment - I suggest you read it - says anything of the sort. Apostolides didn't make this argument, the Orams didn't defend that argument and the courts didn't consider that argument. So Hermes, 100% wrong. I'd have thought that after 90-odd pages of discussion just on this thread you might have got some inkling about what the case was about.

[Hermes]

No it doesn't. Nothing in this judgment - I suggest you read it - says anything of the sort. Apostolides didn't make this argument, the Orams didn't defend that argument and the courts didn't consider that argument. So Hermes, 100% wrong. I'd have thought that after 90-odd pages of discussion just on this thread you might have got some inkling about what the case was about.

I'm sorry but I don't know what you think I said. I have consistently argued that the ECJ ruling has two main aspects: that Protocol 10 can suspend the implementation of the European acquis communautaire in the occupied areas of Cyprus but this does not mean that rulings of Cypriot courts concerning the occupied areas will not be implemented in the rest of the EU member states. Also, with its ruling the Court has recognized the jurisdiction of the Republic of Cyprus and its courts to the occupied areas as well as the property rights of the Cypriot citizens as EU citizens, and the potential they have to claim this right.

This aspect is quite crucial. As the ECJ ruled that the Courts of the Republic of Cyprus have the exclusive jurisdiction regarding such cases of property issues and that as a consequence "the territorial integrity of the Republic of Cyprus and the competence of the Republic’s authorities on the whole territory of Cyprus are reaffirmed".

I suggest that in addition to reading the judgement you also look at the press statement issued by the Law Office of the Republic of Cyprus which hailed the decision taken by the European Court of Justice for precisely this reason.

http://news.pseka.net/index.php?module=article&id=10047

[yiannisP]

In TRNC they are not classified as thieves hence it does apply. We are law abiding people.

What are you talking about? The TRNC is illegal and not recognised by anyone apart from Turkey. It is only maintained by the brute strength of an occupying force. Anyone who appropriates property belonging to another dishonestly is a thief. Anyone who purchases said property and/or land is handling stollen goods. Any civilised country in the world would recognise these as crimes. The purpose for my request for names of people who purchase stollen property is for service of court documents. No country in the world would use data protection to overrule the need for information for service of such documents. If those people think they have a case to answer then let them answer it in court. They will not evade justice.

I make no comment on whether '[you] are a law abiding people' as a whole as it is not relevant to the issue of stollen properties and missing persons etc. We are talking about a specific issues here.

[YFred]

In TRNC they are not classified as thieves hence it does apply. We are law abiding people.

What are you talking about? The TRNC is illegal and not recognised by anyone apart from Turkey. Anyone who appropriates property belonging to another dishonestly is a thief. Anyone who purchases said property and/or land is handling stollen goods. Any civilised country in the world recognises these crimes. I make no comment on whether '[you] are a law abiding people' as a whole as it is not relevant to the issue of stollen properties and missing persons etc. We are talking about a specific issues here.

It may not be recognised but you are talking to our president and we have had relative peace since 74. We must be thankful for small mercies.

As to the data you require, you would have to steal it or perhaps bribe someone to hand it over, now I wonder how that would go in the EU court, no doubt they will accept it.

[yiannisP]

but you are talking to our president and we have had relative peace since 74. We must be thankful for small mercies.

Peace can exist even under a dictatorship (e.g China) This is because brute force can quell dissent as much as living in a just society.

As to the data you require, you would have to steal it or perhaps bribe someone to hand it over, now I wonder how that would go in the EU court, no doubt they will accept it.

Or those purchasing stollen property could just do the honorable thing and defend themselves in Court. It will be better for them in the long run.