Cyprus-Forum.com

[kensmessenger]

I see where you're coming from and you might be right. It a shame the politicians are not as thoughtful about their actions and their consequences for I'm sure they have not considered this reaction.
Its not easy to sort out and make everyone feel happy with the result but it needs doing nevertheless.

[Kifeas]

Boomer,

Agreed but it should not have come to this.

If the RoC had not blocked EU aid and instead encouraged Green Line trade then the TCs would have been less dependent on Turkey and more likely to agree a solution.

Hitting someone with a stick, then saying trust me I wont hurt you, then hitting them again is not going to win trust.

I understand that this is all about upping the ante regarding property purchase in the North but giving the TCs no chance to breath is only going to push them closer to Turkey and is more likely to seal partition.

The RoC did not block any EU financial aid, and indeed encouraged Green Line Trade. It furthermore allowed thousands of TCs to be employed in the south.

[Kifeas]

It is very simple actually. Once the Orams are ordered by the British courts to tear down their home in the north and they refuse, they will be held in contempt of the courts decision. Then they will get themselves into further problems with the law, and even sent to jail. It will be the Orams themselves who would tear the home down and no one else.. If they were smart, and since they like to play with fire by being unethical and unprincipled, they should torch their house in the north so to collect the insurance money.

Hi Kikapu,

There are 4 things need to prove contempt of court:

1 existence of a lawful order
2 the contemnor's knowledge of the order
3 the contemnor's ability to comply
4 the contemnor's failure to comply

The problem here is that No. 3 is going to be difficult to prove. They cannot hand back the property to Mr. A nor can the Os demolish the property without TRNC planning permission which is likely to be refused. So they are not in contempt as they do not have the ability to comply, without taking unreasonable actions i.e. demolish without planning permission, that would endanger their safety or liberty in the TRNC. Few if any courts would expect one to act this way.

They can always enter into an agreement with Apostolides to deliver the land back to him at a certain time in the future, without demolishing the villa; in exchange of waving to them the accrued monetary damages the court has ordered them to pay, besides the return of the land back to him.

[boomerang]

Boomer,

Agreed but it should not have come to this.

If the RoC had not blocked EU aid and instead encouraged Green Line trade then the TCs would have been less dependent on Turkey and more likely to agree a solution.

Hitting someone with a stick, then saying trust me I wont hurt you, then hitting them again is not going to win trust.

I understand that this is all about upping the ante regarding property purchase in the North but giving the TCs no chance to breath is only going to push them closer to Turkey and is more likely to seal partition.

Come on AWE, the selling of the properties is in line of selling us much as possible so less can be claimed back during unification...it has nothing to do wit EU aid or green line regulation...

It's all dirty politics from the tcs...

Yes it had to come to this for a reality check...

[Piratis]

Boomer,

Agreed but it should not have come to this.

If the RoC had not blocked EU aid and instead encouraged Green Line trade then the TCs would have been less dependent on Turkey and more likely to agree a solution.

Hitting someone with a stick, then saying trust me I wont hurt you, then hitting them again is not going to win trust.

I understand that this is all about upping the ante regarding property purchase in the North but giving the TCs no chance to breath is only going to push them closer to Turkey and is more likely to seal partition.

The RoC did not block any EU financial aid, and indeed encouraged Green Line Trade. It furthermore allowed thousands of TCs to be employed in the south.

Furthermore I don't understand the logic of AWE.

The TCs have a lot of demands which are not based on international law or any of their legal rights in Cyprus, but they can make only because they have the Turkish army backing them, illegally keeping hostage 1/3rd of our land and in this way try to blackmail us to accept their demands. This is the reason why TCs totally depend on Turkey. Because without Turkey they would have no power to make such outrageous demands which not only are not based on international law or their legal rights, but they even go against the Human Rights of individuals and require EU derogations.

Even if they could be financially independent they would still depend 100% on Turkey to back them for those demands.

So by making the TCs financially independent it wouldn't make them any less dependent on Turkey as far as their demands for a solution goes. On the contrary it would remove from any motives to need a solution. If they can have just about anything they want, then why would they want a solution that would require for them to hand at least some land back? They wouldn't.

As far as "trust" goes, sorry to say but the main motive behind the TC actions is their own interests and how much gains they believe they can have for themselves, and not trust. We made many steps to try and build trust, but apparently the TCs are not interested. The only cared to open the gates that suited them for financial reasons, but when it comes to other gates which would be for the benefit of some of our population (Limnitis) they refuse to open them. Similarly we made a proposal for the return of Famagusta in exchange for direct trade, and they refused it. Clearly it is only having gains which they are interested in, and not building trust.

[Medman]

In the negotiations so far haven't Mr T and Mr C discussed all of this or just in part. It is estimated that any compensation claims could cost as much as £20billion. However this will get a lot more messier than people realise. Its all about the money these days and with the Cyprus problem, someone will be earning that's for sure.
Gordon Gecko said in the film 'Wall Street'- Greed is good! Then again Del Boy in Only Fools and Horses said 'Lovely Jubbly and this time next year we'll be millionaires'. Seems about right for Cyprus. Fartsuckers!!!!!!!

The TCs who are 18% got control of the 36% of land and they thought everything was theirs to do what they wanted! That is where the greed is. I hope you don't want to say that it is greed from the refugee to want their own properties back?

Sotos I believe the way forward and this is my view is that compensation claims be it through Turkey or someone else is the way to go. GC's believe and want a return to their properties and for some they want for things to go back to the way it was. The whole Cyprus issue is complicated and the greed aspect has changed Cypriot perspectives over the years. Some GC's I have spoken to battle with their relatives over who gets what and who owns what. My grandad and other relatives were removed from Lefkara in 1964 and their houses were threatened with demolision a few years ago. What will happen to those displaced before 1974? It all seems one sided in my opinion and this forced eviction, even though some Greek Cypriots stood up to the Greek soldiers and EOKA who were forcing them out is what killed my grandad from a heartattack as he left behind the land that he had farmed for many a decade. Those GC's of that time, from that village will always earn my respect not the lets get quick rich schemers of today. The GC's want to go back, the TC's don't and we all know it.

[Piratis]

In the negotiations so far haven't Mr T and Mr C discussed all of this or just in part. It is estimated that any compensation claims could cost as much as £20billion. However this will get a lot more messier than people realise. Its all about the money these days and with the Cyprus problem, someone will be earning that's for sure.
Gordon Gecko said in the film 'Wall Street'- Greed is good! Then again Del Boy in Only Fools and Horses said 'Lovely Jubbly and this time next year we'll be millionaires'. Seems about right for Cyprus. Fartsuckers!!!!!!!

The TCs who are 18% got control of the 36% of land and they thought everything was theirs to do what they wanted! That is where the greed is. I hope you don't want to say that it is greed from the refugee to want their own properties back?

Sotos I believe the way forward and this is my view is that compensation claims be it through Turkey or someone else is the way to go. GC's believe and want a return to their properties and for some they want for things to go back to the way it was. The whole Cyprus issue is complicated and the greed aspect has changed Cypriot perspectives over the years. Some GC's I have spoken to battle with their relatives over who gets what and who owns what. My grandad and other relatives were removed from Lefkara in 1964 and their houses were threatened with demolision a few years ago. What will happen to those displaced before 1974? It all seems one sided in my opinion and this forced eviction, even though some Greek Cypriots stood up to the Greek soldiers and EOKA who were forcing them out is what killed my grandad from a heartattack as he left behind the land that he had farmed for many a decade. Those GC's of that time, from that village will always earn my respect not the lets get quick rich schemers of today. The GC's want to go back, the TC's don't and we all know it.

Medman, it is not what you want, but what you have the right for. Everybody has the right to his own property and to be allowed to freely enjoy it and do whatever he wants with it. If some people want to sell it, then it is up to each one of them to decide to whom they want to sell and for how much.

I am sure you still own your property in Lefkara and like every other you should be free to do what you want with it. If you don't want it anymore then you have every right to sell it.

Cypriots are not obligated to give up their human rights. Looking in the past for excuses is no good either. Lets not forget that the inter-communal conflict was in fact started by the TCs in the 50s, so using the conflict as an excuse to punish GCs by depriving them from their human rights is not going to work, as the many court rulings have proven already.

So, when it comes to property, everybody should get back their own properties. Beyond that it is up to each individual if he will decide to move back to his property, to sell it, to exchange it, or simply to just keep it doing nothing with it and simply inherit it to his children and grandchildren.

Some TCs got the wrong idea about what "solution" means. They are with the impression that "solution" simply means legalizing their illegalities. Not so. Solution means solving the problems, and one of the big problems is the human rights violations which can be solved only by restoring these human rights.

[Medman]

In the negotiations so far haven't Mr T and Mr C discussed all of this or just in part. It is estimated that any compensation claims could cost as much as £20billion. However this will get a lot more messier than people realise. Its all about the money these days and with the Cyprus problem, someone will be earning that's for sure.
Gordon Gecko said in the film 'Wall Street'- Greed is good! Then again Del Boy in Only Fools and Horses said 'Lovely Jubbly and this time next year we'll be millionaires'. Seems about right for Cyprus. Fartsuckers!!!!!!!

The TCs who are 18% got control of the 36% of land and they thought everything was theirs to do what they wanted! That is where the greed is. I hope you don't want to say that it is greed from the refugee to want their own properties back?

Sotos I believe the way forward and this is my view is that compensation claims be it through Turkey or someone else is the way to go. GC's believe and want a return to their properties and for some they want for things to go back to the way it was. The whole Cyprus issue is complicated and the greed aspect has changed Cypriot perspectives over the years. Some GC's I have spoken to battle with their relatives over who gets what and who owns what. My grandad and other relatives were removed from Lefkara in 1964 and their houses were threatened with demolision a few years ago. What will happen to those displaced before 1974? It all seems one sided in my opinion and this forced eviction, even though some Greek Cypriots stood up to the Greek soldiers and EOKA who were forcing them out is what killed my grandad from a heartattack as he left behind the land that he had farmed for many a decade. Those GC's of that time, from that village will always earn my respect not the lets get quick rich schemers of today. The GC's want to go back, the TC's don't and we all know it.

Medman, it is not what you want, but what you have the right for. Everybody has the right to his own property and to be allowed to freely enjoy it and do whatever he wants with it. If some people want to sell it, then it is up to each one of them to decide to whom they want to sell and for how much.

I am sure you still own your property in Lefkara and like every other you should be free to do what you want with it. If you don't want it anymore then you have every right to sell it.

Cypriots are not obligated to give up their human rights. Looking in the past for excuses is no good either. Lets not forget that the inter-communal conflict was in fact started by the TCs in the 50s, so using the conflict as an excuse to punish GCs by depriving them from their human rights is not going to work, as the many court rulings have proven already.

So, when it comes to property, everybody should get back their own properties. Beyond that it is up to each individual if he will decide to move back to his property, to sell it, to exchange it, or simply to just keep it doing nothing with it and simply inherit it to his children and grandchildren.

Some TCs got the wrong idea about what "solution" means. They are with the impression that "solution" simply means legalizing their illegalities. Not so. Solution means solving the problems, and one of the big problems is the human rights violations which can be solved only by restoring these human rights.

Piratis thanks for your input, but do you believe that both communities should now live separately, in redrawn areas (not cantons), compensation paid or property sold to solve this issue. It happened very quickly in Bosnia didn't it? It can't go back to the way it was and for a Cypriot I had the opportunity to get out when things went wrong. GC's and TC's will always disagree about who started all of this. Propaganda has played its part too.However my relatives human rights went when they were removed from Lefkara in 64 and made to live in Kophinou. There only crime for being a TC, and the UN couldn't guarantee their safety. The same issue was played out again ten years later in 74 and so it will continue. Do any of us have human rights really? Maybe we should all say sorry to one another, a reconcillation if you please. However it won't happen because of ignorance, prejudice, racism and arrgogance on both communities parts. I was lucky enough to visit Lefkara and could see the attraction.However the new generation that live there now are alien to me. Can't go back!

[Piratis]

In the negotiations so far haven't Mr T and Mr C discussed all of this or just in part. It is estimated that any compensation claims could cost as much as £20billion. However this will get a lot more messier than people realise. Its all about the money these days and with the Cyprus problem, someone will be earning that's for sure.
Gordon Gecko said in the film 'Wall Street'- Greed is good! Then again Del Boy in Only Fools and Horses said 'Lovely Jubbly and this time next year we'll be millionaires'. Seems about right for Cyprus. Fartsuckers!!!!!!!

The TCs who are 18% got control of the 36% of land and they thought everything was theirs to do what they wanted! That is where the greed is. I hope you don't want to say that it is greed from the refugee to want their own properties back?

Sotos I believe the way forward and this is my view is that compensation claims be it through Turkey or someone else is the way to go. GC's believe and want a return to their properties and for some they want for things to go back to the way it was. The whole Cyprus issue is complicated and the greed aspect has changed Cypriot perspectives over the years. Some GC's I have spoken to battle with their relatives over who gets what and who owns what. My grandad and other relatives were removed from Lefkara in 1964 and their houses were threatened with demolision a few years ago. What will happen to those displaced before 1974? It all seems one sided in my opinion and this forced eviction, even though some Greek Cypriots stood up to the Greek soldiers and EOKA who were forcing them out is what killed my grandad from a heartattack as he left behind the land that he had farmed for many a decade. Those GC's of that time, from that village will always earn my respect not the lets get quick rich schemers of today. The GC's want to go back, the TC's don't and we all know it.

Medman, it is not what you want, but what you have the right for. Everybody has the right to his own property and to be allowed to freely enjoy it and do whatever he wants with it. If some people want to sell it, then it is up to each one of them to decide to whom they want to sell and for how much.

I am sure you still own your property in Lefkara and like every other you should be free to do what you want with it. If you don't want it anymore then you have every right to sell it.

Cypriots are not obligated to give up their human rights. Looking in the past for excuses is no good either. Lets not forget that the inter-communal conflict was in fact started by the TCs in the 50s, so using the conflict as an excuse to punish GCs by depriving them from their human rights is not going to work, as the many court rulings have proven already.

So, when it comes to property, everybody should get back their own properties. Beyond that it is up to each individual if he will decide to move back to his property, to sell it, to exchange it, or simply to just keep it doing nothing with it and simply inherit it to his children and grandchildren.

Some TCs got the wrong idea about what "solution" means. They are with the impression that "solution" simply means legalizing their illegalities. Not so. Solution means solving the problems, and one of the big problems is the human rights violations which can be solved only by restoring these human rights.

Piratis thanks for your input, but do you believe that both communities should now live separately, in redrawn areas (not cantons), compensation paid or property sold to solve this issue. It happened very quickly in Bosnia didn't it? It can't go back to the way it was and for a Cypriot I had the opportunity to get out when things went wrong. GC's and TC's will always disagree about who started all of this. Propaganda has played its part too.However my relatives human rights went when they were removed from Lefkara in 64 and made to live in Kophinou. There only crime for being a TC, and the UN couldn't guarantee their safety. The same issue was played out again ten years later in 74 and so it will continue. Do any of us have human rights really? Maybe we should all say sorry to one another, a reconcillation if you please. However it won't happen because of ignorance, prejudice, racism and arrgogance on both communities parts. I was lucky enough to visit Lefkara and could see the attraction.However the new generation that live there now are alien to me. Can't go back!

Medman, people maintain their rights over their properties regardless of what problems and conflicts we had in the past. This is now undisputed.

You talk about the problems that you had in the 60s, and I don't blame you since everybody remembers more his own problems and not the problems of others. Did you know that TCs even forced the Armenians out of their region in Nicosia in the 60s? As I said trying to play the blame game here about what happened in the past will not change anything, people have the 100% rights over their own properties.

Beyond that if the people are as you say racists, then they will segregate themselves in a legal way. E.g. if you are a TC and you don't want to live in a place where the majority is GCs, then you can sell your property there and buy property in some place where the majority are TCs.

This kind of segregation exists in many countries. In the US for example there are "white" neighborhoods, "black" neighborhoods, "Asian" neighborhoods etc. But you can't have racist laws to force people out from specific regions, or to prohibit them to live in specific regions due to their race or ethnicity. We are talking about basic human rights here!

[Kifeas]

Piratis thanks for your input, but do you believe that both communities should now live separately, in redrawn areas (not cantons), compensation paid or property sold to solve this issue. It happened very quickly in Bosnia didn't it?

Medman, I suggest to you that the only reason you want a solution in which "both communities should now live separately, in redrawn areas," is only because you hope or believe that in this way your (Turkish Cypriot) side will manage to secure more and better territory than its fair share in Cyprus, being only the 18% of the population. I suggest to you that being in a situation in which your side would have been contained in an area of only the 18% of Cyprus, instead of the 36% that it now occupies, you wouldn't have maintained the above "believes" regarding separation.

As a prove to this, I submit to you the fact that your side, although has always -historically- been pro-separation -as you also propose, it has never proposed to withdraw and restrict itself in an area that is only equivalent to its fair population and property share. In that end, I do not take your believes and suggestions any seriously, and I suggest to you that they are only the product of dissembled thoughts and opportunistic aims.