Cyprus-Forum.com

[Raymanoff]

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http://www.seaterra.ru

[Nikitas]

the Orams decision reaffirms what we always knew: that the individual rights are not affected by the occupation or any unilateral move by either side. It was a foregone conclusion since the EU cannot divest its citizens of their human rights which all EU states recognise.

The way forward is clear, there can be no solution which does not statisfy the rights of individuals.

What we decide among ourselves as Cypriots has nothing to do with the lowlifes that exploit a political situation inorder to get a cheap holiday home, nor those that cater to them.

[Nikitas]

I would like to see an interview with that fat faced Irish Eurodeputy who said on Greek TV that now there is no such thing as GC property in the north. I would like to see what he says of the ECJ which is no less an institution of the EU than the Euyroparliament that pays his fat salary.

[Jerry]

They knew or should have known that they were trespassing and illegally investing in GC properties for which their owners did not give their consent, and they should have avoided doing this.

You may believe that what TC should have done post 74 is squeeze into a tiny proprtion of the area in the North, making no use of the vast amounts of land under its control but owned by GC pre 74, but such an expectation is in my opinion simply unrealistic. In reality this is not even what the RoC did with the areas under it's control, even though the vast majority of land under their control was not TC owned pre 74 they still used and use areas that were TC pre 74. If the TRNC had not used or allowed any use of the area under its control post 74 but owned by GC pre 74 it simply would not exist today.

I do not think the burden of a property solutiuon in Cyprus should be borne by just those that lost access and control of property in 74 and nor do I think it should be borne disproportionatley by one community either.

I would look favourably on any solution that took the above premise of a settlement as its starting point. I do not think the above is the 'starting point' for the GC sides current position on a property settlement.

I do not believe that the TCs should have squeezed into a tiny proportion of the area in the north, nor do I believe they should have:-

1. Occupied an area that was disproportionate to their population.
2. Maliciously denied Varosha to its inhabitants, even though they had no use for it.
3. Looted, on an industrial scale, millions of pounds worth of GC goods left behind by the refugees.
4. Allowed thousands of mainland Turks to populate Greek Cypriot properties.
5. Sold GC owned land to foreigners.
6. Changed the demography of north Cyprus in order to force the GCs to accept their (TC) version of a settlement.
7. Childishly defaced the Pendadactylos mountains with what is in effect a "V" sign to those in the south.

The Greek Cypriots are not blameless in this dispute but they have, in the main, stayed within the law because no other course of action is open to them. Turkey has, on "behalf" of the TCs, tried to force its will (and all it implies) on the south of the island simply by stationing 40,000 troops in the north.
The two main consequences of this judgement are: the property market in the north will collapse and Turkey will never join the EU until there is a solution to the Cyprus Problem. I do not believe there will be a flood of lawsuits now simply because problems in establishing the identity of occupants of GC land and whether or not they have assets in another EU country. The damage to the property market in the north, however, will be profound.
There is, in my view, a certain irony (please do not take this personally) in your return to this forum after the failure of the "rival" forum you set up a few years ago. I believe it lost much support from Greek Cypriots because it was too regulated and free expression was discouraged by some argumentative "holier than thou" contributors. In a nutshell your forum failed because of lack of GC support and the "trnc" will do the same, unless artificially supported by Turkey for ever of course.

[Tim Drayton]

An excerpt from Tümay Tuğyan's column in today's Yeni Düzen (my translation):

http://www.yeniduzengazetesi.com/templa ... &zoneid=19

We are responsible for the property question coming to this point.
For 35 years we have made mistake after mistake; failed time and time again to learn the lessons of the likes of Loizidou, Arestis, Demades, carried on with our noses in the air rather than putting an end to the plunder of Greek Cypriot property
Perhaps the construction sector was putting money into the economy, but this was not the most important thing.
Maybe, for example, we could have adopted a position that would have enabled us to an extent to counter in political terms the legal consequences of such lawsuits supported by the Greek Cypriot administration, by means of a memorandum preventing the sale of Greek Cypriot property.
But we were incapable of doing this.
We still boldly buy and sell everybody’s land.
And turning a blind eye to such disgraceful acts, we fire back a few pot shots along the lines of, “The Orams judgment will harm the negotiations.”
Instead of saying, “If we do not immediately solve the Cyprus problem, the real problems will start”, we put on a show of bravado and say “Look out. We will mess up the negotiations.”
The game is up, folks!
Time to wake up from our dreams.
Instead of sabotaging the negotiations, it is time to grasp the need to embrace the process more tightly and solve the problem without delay.

[DT.]

An excerpt from Tümay Tuğyan's column in today's Yeni Düzen (my translation):

http://www.yeniduzengazetesi.com/templa ... &zoneid=19

We are responsible for the property question coming to this point.
For 35 years we have made mistake after mistake; failed time and time again to learn the lessons of the likes of Loizidou, Arestis, Demades, carried on with our noses in the air rather than putting an end to the plunder of Greek Cypriot property
Perhaps the construction sector was putting money into the economy, but this was not the most important thing.
Maybe, for example, we could have adopted a position that would have enabled us to an extent to counter in political terms the legal consequences of such lawsuits supported by the Greek Cypriot administration, by means of a memorandum preventing the sale of Greek Cypriot property.
But we were incapable of doing this.
We still boldly buy and sell everybody’s land.
And turning a blind eye to such disgraceful acts, we fire back a few pot shots along the lines of, “The Orams judgment will harm the negotiations.”
Instead of saying, “If we do not immediately solve the Cyprus problem, the real problems will start”, we put on a show of bravado and say “Look out. We will mess up the negotiations.”
The game is up, folks!
Time to wake up from our dreams.
Instead of sabotaging the negotiations, it is time to grasp the need to embrace the process more tightly and solve the problem without delay.

a lot of pennies dropping today.

[Jerry]

An excerpt from Tümay Tuğyan's column in today's Yeni Düzen (my translation):

http://www.yeniduzengazetesi.com/templa ... &zoneid=19

We are responsible for the property question coming to this point.
For 35 years we have made mistake after mistake; failed time and time again to learn the lessons of the likes of Loizidou, Arestis, Demades, carried on with our noses in the air rather than putting an end to the plunder of Greek Cypriot property
Perhaps the construction sector was putting money into the economy, but this was not the most important thing.
Maybe, for example, we could have adopted a position that would have enabled us to an extent to counter in political terms the legal consequences of such lawsuits supported by the Greek Cypriot administration, by means of a memorandum preventing the sale of Greek Cypriot property.
But we were incapable of doing this.
We still boldly buy and sell everybody’s land.
And turning a blind eye to such disgraceful acts, we fire back a few pot shots along the lines of, “The Orams judgment will harm the negotiations.”
Instead of saying, “If we do not immediately solve the Cyprus problem, the real problems will start”, we put on a show of bravado and say “Look out. We will mess up the negotiations.”
The game is up, folks!
Time to wake up from our dreams.
Instead of sabotaging the negotiations, it is time to grasp the need to embrace the process more tightly and solve the problem without delay.

Thank you for that Tim. More importantly, what is being said on the mainland?

[Get Real!]

I am pushed for time right now, I am actually visting some friends in the South (hope there are no writs waiting for me at the crossing )

Welcome back Erol...

[denizaksulu]

An excerpt from Tümay Tuğyan's column in today's Yeni Düzen (my translation):

http://www.yeniduzengazetesi.com/templa ... &zoneid=19

We are responsible for the property question coming to this point.
For 35 years we have made mistake after mistake; failed time and time again to learn the lessons of the likes of Loizidou, Arestis, Demades, carried on with our noses in the air rather than putting an end to the plunder of Greek Cypriot property
Perhaps the construction sector was putting money into the economy, but this was not the most important thing.
Maybe, for example, we could have adopted a position that would have enabled us to an extent to counter in political terms the legal consequences of such lawsuits supported by the Greek Cypriot administration, by means of a memorandum preventing the sale of Greek Cypriot property.
But we were incapable of doing this.
We still boldly buy and sell everybody’s land.
And turning a blind eye to such disgraceful acts, we fire back a few pot shots along the lines of, “The Orams judgment will harm the negotiations.”
Instead of saying, “If we do not immediately solve the Cyprus problem, the real problems will start”, we put on a show of bravado and say “Look out. We will mess up the negotiations.”
The game is up, folks!
Time to wake up from our dreams.
Instead of sabotaging the negotiations, it is time to grasp the need to embrace the process more tightly and solve the problem without delay.

Immediately after the events of 21stDecember 1963, there was a slogan on large hoardings near Agirda (Nicosia-Kyrenia road). I am reminded of this

It read in Turkish: "KİM, KİMİN TOPRAĞINI KİME VERİYOR?"

This anti - Enosıs slogan can be translated as: 'WHO IS GIVING WHOSE LAND TO WHOM?'

What goes around.............

[askimwos]

An excerpt from Tümay Tuğyan's column in today's Yeni Düzen (my translation):

http://www.yeniduzengazetesi.com/templa ... &zoneid=19

We are responsible for the property question coming to this point.
For 35 years we have made mistake after mistake; failed time and time again to learn the lessons of the likes of Loizidou, Arestis, Demades, carried on with our noses in the air rather than putting an end to the plunder of Greek Cypriot property
Perhaps the construction sector was putting money into the economy, but this was not the most important thing.
Maybe, for example, we could have adopted a position that would have enabled us to an extent to counter in political terms the legal consequences of such lawsuits supported by the Greek Cypriot administration, by means of a memorandum preventing the sale of Greek Cypriot property.
But we were incapable of doing this.
We still boldly buy and sell everybody’s land.
And turning a blind eye to such disgraceful acts, we fire back a few pot shots along the lines of, “The Orams judgment will harm the negotiations.”
Instead of saying, “If we do not immediately solve the Cyprus problem, the real problems will start”, we put on a show of bravado and say “Look out. We will mess up the negotiations.”
The game is up, folks!
Time to wake up from our dreams.
Instead of sabotaging the negotiations, it is time to grasp the need to embrace the process more tightly and solve the problem without delay.

Thank you for that Tim. More importantly, what is being said on the mainland?

At least there are still some people out there that see the facts for what they are..

Christofias had that in mind when tabling the GC proposals for property owners to have the first say on what happens with their properties (i.e. reinstated, compensated, exchanged, leased)