Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

There once were two Brits called Oram
Who... on land going cheap chanced their arm.
But justice was done
When the refugee won
Which now means the land is haram.

(And the shit in the north's hit the fan!)

The Cypriot, that is the wrong picture. The one shown here is Oracle and Miltiades, surely.

[miltiades]

There once were two Brits called Oram
Who... on land going cheap chanced their arm.
But justice was done
When the refugee won
Which now means the land is haram.

(And the shit in the north's hit the fan!)

The Cypriot, that is the wrong picture. The one shown here is Oracle and Miltiades, surely.

Which is Oracle ?

[denizaksulu]

the truth hurts so much they just locked me out of 44 as well,lol.
so much for freedom of speach!

I got banned after I made 4 or 5 comments - all of them were clean and based on facts....

I got banned after I said, 'hello'.

[DT.]

To suggest that the EU is wrong and that the occupying power is right is absolutely laughable.

I make no such assertion as far as I am concerned.

You say that you are bitterly disappointed with the EU , is it because it has refused to accept illegalities and to this day reaffirms that the northern part of Cyprus is very much the property of the RoC ?

I say I am disapointed with the EU becacuse I had hopes that it would help a settlement be reach in Cyprus but in fact I beleive it has done the opposite and has only made an settlement harder to reach than before its various acts / non acts re Cyprus (allowing accesion of the RoC without a settlement and this ruling and its failure to deliver on its post anna plan comittments to TC community to name a few)

The T/Cs , those that still support the Turkish occupation , will have to make a choice , either the remain the pariahs of the international community or they become a part of Europe

I think TC will have ultimately have to make a choice between essential capitualtion to near maximal GC demands in Cyprus or resigning themselves to the annexation of the North as part of Turkey and I fear they will ultimately choose the latter than the former.

As for your statement that you can be held liable for any acts of yours in the North the RoC deems are illegal under EU law, whats wrong with this.

What is wrong with it is that at the same time it explicitly denies to me any of the rights and protections that EU aquis gives me re living in the North. To say I am subject to the negative aspects to me of EU Aquis whilst living in the North but can have none of the to me positive ones seems inhernetly unfair to me as an indivdual

The most important development as a result of this judgement is the permanent END of the sale of stolen immovable properties to opportunist Brits and other EU citizens.

It may well end such sales but if it ALSO leads to the annexation of the North by Turkey and a breakdown of relations between Turkey and the EU and permanent for the forseeable future partition of Cyprus and animosity between TC and GC then to me it is a pretty phyrric victory.

May I also add that by emphasizing that the indigenous to Cyprus T/Cs , are equal and full citizens of the RoC have exactly the same rights as any other EU citizen.

Sure as a Cypriot living in the South I have the same rights as any other Cypriot living in the South (on paper at least). However I am a Cypriot that lives in the North and as such I do not have the same rights. I am liable under EU law for my actions in the North that the RoC may deem illegal but I have none of the protection that EU law would afford me if I happened to live in the South in the pace in which I live.

This particular paragraph of yours says it all " However I am a Cypriot that lives in the North and as such I do not have the same rights. ""
Ask yourself why you do not have the same rights , could it be the fact that the RoC does not control the occupied parts of Cyprus ?
I'm optimistic by nature and I'm firmly convinced that this judgement will be to the benefit of the entire population of Cyprus. It is not a judgement against the T/Cs or indeed a judgement in support of the G/Cs. It is a judgement in support of law and order that decides the ownership of immovable as well as movable property by determining that the holder of legal deeds continues to be the legal owner of land in a part of Cyprus currently occupied by Turkey. Erolz , this is an undisputed fact , the property that I personally bought legally in Famagusta in 1973 ,( I do not come from Famagusta ) with my hard earned money cant just be taken away from me by force and illegally sold to a Brit, you wouldn't like I'm sure and neither would anyone else.
This judgement might just add the required ingredient in the current round of negotiations so badly needed if we are to succeed and reunite our people as one . One nation one people the Cypriot people . No minorities and no majorities with one and only one homeland the island of Cyprus the ancestral home of all Cypriots .

The only ingredient added with this judgement is an extra dose of steroids for the GC side to devastate us some more - nothing else.

As far as your "one nation" crap goes: We are Turkish Cypriots. We are a politically equal community with the GCs. Any arrangement undermining this, the concept of bi-zonality and endangering our security is a straight NO. Stop telling us who we are or who we should become!

when you figure out yourselves who the hell you are give us a bell. There's a lot of anger and dissapointment at the fact that an ECJ ruling has made it more difficult for you to sell OUR properties!! Go figure

[erolz3]

Ask yourself why you do not have the same rights , could it be the fact that the RoC does not control the occupied parts of Cyprus ?

It was the EU that decided it would allow accesion of the RoC before a settlement was reached. It was the EU that decided that EU law would be suspended in the North post unfication. It is the EU that now says the negative aspects of that law can be used against me whilst any protections or benefits it may offer me are still suspended. I do pretty much blame the EU for this.

I'm optimistic by nature and I'm firmly convinced that this judgement will be to the benefit of the entire population of Cyprus.

I sincerely hope you are right and just as sincerely fear you are not.

It is not a judgement against the T/Cs or indeed a judgement in support of the G/Cs. It is a judgement in support of law and order that decides the ownership of immovable as well as movable property by determining that the holder of legal deeds continues to be the legal owner of land in a part of Cyprus currently occupied by Turkey.

The ECJ judgment was never about ownership of property in the North of Cyprus. What it is about is if RoC court judgments relating to offences as deemed by the RoC that occur in the North, where EU law is suspended can be enforced by other EU courts against assets held in EU countires. As such it is to disingenuous twaddle to say it is not a jufgment agaist TC. It has massive and fundamental negative repercussions for TC. That seems clear to me.

Erolz , this is an undisputed fact , the property that I personally bought legally in Famagusta in 1973 ,( I do not come from Famagusta ) with my hard earned money cant just be taken away from me by force and illegally sold to a Brit, you wouldn't like I'm sure and neither would anyone else.

And I fundamentaly and absolutley agree that you should have available to you a legal remedy for that loss that is in compliance with international law. This judgment does nothing to provide that but it does do much to undermine the efforts to make the former available to you.

This judgement might just add the required ingredient in the current round of negotiations so badly needed if we are to succeed and reunite our people as one . One nation one people the Cypriot people . No minorities and no majorities with one and only one homeland the island of Cyprus the ancestral home of all Cypriots .

Again I sincerely hope you are right but I equally fear that you are living in a cloud cuckoo land.

[Sotos]

To expect the negotiations or any other affair between the two sides to take place on an equal footing is a mere joke.

Of course it is a joke! 82% is bigger than 18%. It is not equal. Did you finish elementary school Murataga? Maybe math is not taught in Turkish schools? You are trying to gain more than what you deserve by using the army of Turkey. And the 1960 agreements was the same. Now you are pissed because you don't get the gains? Of course you will not you fool. You think we are idiots to accept 18% minority to get 50%? Accept your fair 18% or in the end you will go back to 0%, the same you had before your first invasion of our island!

[miltiades]

Murataga wrote:

The only ingredient added with this judgement is an extra dose of steroids for the GC side to devastate us some more - nothing else.

As far as your "one nation" crap goes: We are Turkish Cypriots. We are a politically equal community with the GCs. Any arrangement undermining this, the concept of bi-zonality and endangering our security is a straight NO. Stop telling us who we are or who we should become!

Firstly you are 100% wrong concerning the judgement being an ingredient of "steroids" for the G/Cs .
It is a judgement based on international and more potently EU legalities , a judgement that determines the legal owner of the immovable land sold off by an unscrupoulous seller to a brainless couple of Brits ,can ONLY be the holder of the legal title deeds issued by the RoC on whose land this immovable property is based.
May I remind you that I have NEVER denied either the T/Cs or the Greek Cypriots or indeed any other Cypriot to be what they are ie Turkish Cypriots Greek Cypriots etc. What I have constantly proclaimed is that I , a G/C is primarily and unquestionably a CYPRIOT , one that sees no majorities or minorities , one that considers Kafenes , Kikapu , Halil , Deniz , Kifeas and Piratis as my true compatriots whose motherland I share , that of Cyprus.
I have on numerous occasions lambasted those who consider either Turkey or Greece as their homeland and have many times encouraged them to seek the "greener " pastures of their respective homelands , since Cyprus is my homeland all those sharing my passion for this island are naturally my brothers and sisters , I dont give a shit if you are Armenian Cypriot , G/C , T/C or indeed a Chinese Cypriot.
You , on the other hand , are still nourishing and nurturing a continued hate for the G/Cs , well mate I'm happy and comfortable in saying that Birkibrisly , Deniz , Halil , Kikapu , and so many other T/Cs are my true compatriots .
ps.I hate flags especially the ones shoved in our faces as those of our "motherlands"

[Murataga]

To suggest that the EU is wrong and that the occupying power is right is absolutely laughable.

I make no such assertion as far as I am concerned.

You say that you are bitterly disappointed with the EU , is it because it has refused to accept illegalities and to this day reaffirms that the northern part of Cyprus is very much the property of the RoC ?

I say I am disapointed with the EU becacuse I had hopes that it would help a settlement be reach in Cyprus but in fact I beleive it has done the opposite and has only made an settlement harder to reach than before its various acts / non acts re Cyprus (allowing accesion of the RoC without a settlement and this ruling and its failure to deliver on its post anna plan comittments to TC community to name a few)

The T/Cs , those that still support the Turkish occupation , will have to make a choice , either the remain the pariahs of the international community or they become a part of Europe

I think TC will have ultimately have to make a choice between essential capitualtion to near maximal GC demands in Cyprus or resigning themselves to the annexation of the North as part of Turkey and I fear they will ultimately choose the latter than the former.

As for your statement that you can be held liable for any acts of yours in the North the RoC deems are illegal under EU law, whats wrong with this.

What is wrong with it is that at the same time it explicitly denies to me any of the rights and protections that EU aquis gives me re living in the North. To say I am subject to the negative aspects to me of EU Aquis whilst living in the North but can have none of the to me positive ones seems inhernetly unfair to me as an indivdual

The most important development as a result of this judgement is the permanent END of the sale of stolen immovable properties to opportunist Brits and other EU citizens.

It may well end such sales but if it ALSO leads to the annexation of the North by Turkey and a breakdown of relations between Turkey and the EU and permanent for the forseeable future partition of Cyprus and animosity between TC and GC then to me it is a pretty phyrric victory.

May I also add that by emphasizing that the indigenous to Cyprus T/Cs , are equal and full citizens of the RoC have exactly the same rights as any other EU citizen.

Sure as a Cypriot living in the South I have the same rights as any other Cypriot living in the South (on paper at least). However I am a Cypriot that lives in the North and as such I do not have the same rights. I am liable under EU law for my actions in the North that the RoC may deem illegal but I have none of the protection that EU law would afford me if I happened to live in the South in the pace in which I live.

This particular paragraph of yours says it all " However I am a Cypriot that lives in the North and as such I do not have the same rights. ""
Ask yourself why you do not have the same rights , could it be the fact that the RoC does not control the occupied parts of Cyprus ?
I'm optimistic by nature and I'm firmly convinced that this judgement will be to the benefit of the entire population of Cyprus. It is not a judgement against the T/Cs or indeed a judgement in support of the G/Cs. It is a judgement in support of law and order that decides the ownership of immovable as well as movable property by determining that the holder of legal deeds continues to be the legal owner of land in a part of Cyprus currently occupied by Turkey. Erolz , this is an undisputed fact , the property that I personally bought legally in Famagusta in 1973 ,( I do not come from Famagusta ) with my hard earned money cant just be taken away from me by force and illegally sold to a Brit, you wouldn't like I'm sure and neither would anyone else.
This judgement might just add the required ingredient in the current round of negotiations so badly needed if we are to succeed and reunite our people as one . One nation one people the Cypriot people . No minorities and no majorities with one and only one homeland the island of Cyprus the ancestral home of all Cypriots .

The only ingredient added with this judgement is an extra dose of steroids for the GC side to devastate us some more - nothing else.

As far as your "one nation" crap goes: We are Turkish Cypriots. We are a politically equal community with the GCs. Any arrangement undermining this, the concept of bi-zonality and endangering our security is a straight NO. Stop telling us who we are or who we should become!

when you figure out yourselves who the hell you are give us a bell.

That bell never stopped ringing. Perhaps it is time for you to take off the ear plugs.

There's a lot of anger and dissapointment at the fact that an ECJ ruling has made it more difficult for you to sell OUR properties!! Go figure

The disappointment is because the ruling granted you the right to judge and convict a community - a community which you have a conflict with and supposedly holding negotiations for a settlement on an equal footing.

[DT.]

To suggest that the EU is wrong and that the occupying power is right is absolutely laughable.

I make no such assertion as far as I am concerned.

You say that you are bitterly disappointed with the EU , is it because it has refused to accept illegalities and to this day reaffirms that the northern part of Cyprus is very much the property of the RoC ?

I say I am disapointed with the EU becacuse I had hopes that it would help a settlement be reach in Cyprus but in fact I beleive it has done the opposite and has only made an settlement harder to reach than before its various acts / non acts re Cyprus (allowing accesion of the RoC without a settlement and this ruling and its failure to deliver on its post anna plan comittments to TC community to name a few)

The T/Cs , those that still support the Turkish occupation , will have to make a choice , either the remain the pariahs of the international community or they become a part of Europe

I think TC will have ultimately have to make a choice between essential capitualtion to near maximal GC demands in Cyprus or resigning themselves to the annexation of the North as part of Turkey and I fear they will ultimately choose the latter than the former.

As for your statement that you can be held liable for any acts of yours in the North the RoC deems are illegal under EU law, whats wrong with this.

What is wrong with it is that at the same time it explicitly denies to me any of the rights and protections that EU aquis gives me re living in the North. To say I am subject to the negative aspects to me of EU Aquis whilst living in the North but can have none of the to me positive ones seems inhernetly unfair to me as an indivdual

The most important development as a result of this judgement is the permanent END of the sale of stolen immovable properties to opportunist Brits and other EU citizens.

It may well end such sales but if it ALSO leads to the annexation of the North by Turkey and a breakdown of relations between Turkey and the EU and permanent for the forseeable future partition of Cyprus and animosity between TC and GC then to me it is a pretty phyrric victory.

May I also add that by emphasizing that the indigenous to Cyprus T/Cs , are equal and full citizens of the RoC have exactly the same rights as any other EU citizen.

Sure as a Cypriot living in the South I have the same rights as any other Cypriot living in the South (on paper at least). However I am a Cypriot that lives in the North and as such I do not have the same rights. I am liable under EU law for my actions in the North that the RoC may deem illegal but I have none of the protection that EU law would afford me if I happened to live in the South in the pace in which I live.

This particular paragraph of yours says it all " However I am a Cypriot that lives in the North and as such I do not have the same rights. ""
Ask yourself why you do not have the same rights , could it be the fact that the RoC does not control the occupied parts of Cyprus ?
I'm optimistic by nature and I'm firmly convinced that this judgement will be to the benefit of the entire population of Cyprus. It is not a judgement against the T/Cs or indeed a judgement in support of the G/Cs. It is a judgement in support of law and order that decides the ownership of immovable as well as movable property by determining that the holder of legal deeds continues to be the legal owner of land in a part of Cyprus currently occupied by Turkey. Erolz , this is an undisputed fact , the property that I personally bought legally in Famagusta in 1973 ,( I do not come from Famagusta ) with my hard earned money cant just be taken away from me by force and illegally sold to a Brit, you wouldn't like I'm sure and neither would anyone else.
This judgement might just add the required ingredient in the current round of negotiations so badly needed if we are to succeed and reunite our people as one . One nation one people the Cypriot people . No minorities and no majorities with one and only one homeland the island of Cyprus the ancestral home of all Cypriots .

The only ingredient added with this judgement is an extra dose of steroids for the GC side to devastate us some more - nothing else.

As far as your "one nation" crap goes: We are Turkish Cypriots. We are a politically equal community with the GCs. Any arrangement undermining this, the concept of bi-zonality and endangering our security is a straight NO. Stop telling us who we are or who we should become!

when you figure out yourselves who the hell you are give us a bell.

That bell never stopped ringing. Perhaps it is time for you to take off the ear plugs.

There's a lot of anger and dissapointment at the fact that an ECJ ruling has made it more difficult for you to sell OUR properties!! Go figure

The disappointment is because the ruling granted you the right to judge and convict a community - a community which you have a conflict with and supposedly holding negotiations for a settlement on an equal footing.

Firstly our conflict is with Turkey and those that support its illegal actions in Cyprus. If you're included then its a bad judgement call on your behalf.

Secondly we're not on an equal footing. The government of Cyprus is the legal soverign govenment of the entire island and the north is an occupied territory.

If a certain community protests at the introduction of law and order in its activities then there's something fundamentally wrong with the community methinks.

[erolz3]

There was never a question about TC concessions or capitulation. The TCs made no concessions at all, and neither they were asked to do any.

Are you referring to within the Annan Plan? If so the idea that the Annan Plan involved no concessions on the part of TC side is one that whilst may be conforting to you is not a reflection of any reality.

I personally don't expect many more lawsuits tomorrow. Most people will wait and see if the negotiations can produce a fair solution that would bring justice to them without having to seek justice in courts each one individually.

How long do you think it will be before someone, anyone in the RoC decides to bring a case against an indivdual with EU assets for using an 'illegal' hotel in the North?

I guess you were hopping that EU would force the Greek Cypriots to accept the unfair demands of Turkey and disregard legality, human rights, democracy and everything else in order to help you get the "solution" that you wanted. If this is how you were hopping that EU would assist to get a "solution" then I am glad you are disappointed.

What I was hoping was the EU would not do things that make reaching a settlement that both communites can accept harder and maybe even do things that make such easier. I believe that they have made reaching a settlement that both sides can vote yes for near impossible with this ruling and for that I blame them.

How Turkey chooses to call the land they illegally occupy, "trnc" or "Cyprus District of Turkey" or whatever, makes no difference. Legally this part of Cyprus is part of Republic of Cyprus as far as the UN, EU and the whole world is concerned. Do you think that if you called the occupied part of Cyprus as "Cyprus District of Turkey" it would make any difference in this or any other ruling in EU or the ECHR?

The difference it would make is that instead of being hugely dependent on Turkey for our day to day survival we would be totaly and absolutely dependent on them. The difference it would make would be to cement partition of Cyprus for the foreseeable future. As a de facto part of a recognised state where less than 1% of that state is disputed we could survive. Given this recent ruling as a states that is 100% disputed we

t is the point. In the process any hope of having a reforming progressive Turkish state within the EU will also be destroyed with all that means for the long term peace and security of the region and indeed the world. For making all the above so much more likely I do blame the EU.

If you do not get the full benefits of EU this is only because the illegal occupation by Turkey stops this from happening. So be angry at Turkey, not EU.

It was the EU that decided it would allow accesion of the RoC before a settlement was reached. It was the EU that decided that EU law would be suspended in the North post unfication. It is the EU that now says the negative aspects of that law can be used against me whilst any protections or benefits it may offer me are still suspended. I do blame the EU for this reality.