Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

There once were two Brits called Oram
Who... on land going cheap chanced their arm.
But justice was done
When the refugee won
Which now means the land is haram.

(And the shit in the north's hit the fan!)

I'll second that, thats very good re Kibreo.

[CopperLine]

copperline

There's a clear answer to that question : The "country that does not exits to any other country other than Turkey" is subject in international law to occupation law. First, Turkey is the occupying state with effective administration of the north, whereas RoC is the de jure state but without effective administration. Second, northern Cyprus is subject to the suspended acquis communitaire of the EU.

Copperline ..... could you please clarify this for me am not sure what you mean there

cheers

There are two considerations : The basic argument in international law is that whatever the motives or purported justifications for the Turkish intervention in 1974 it is an occupying state and therefore subject to the international law of occupation. The declaration of independence of the TRNC does not alter Turkey's status as occupying state with effective admin of the territory. On the other hand, the whole island of Cyprus is an EU state albeit with a suspended acquis in respect of the north. (the original was a response to a question by ....? : )

[YFred]

copperline

There's a clear answer to that question : The "country that does not exits to any other country other than Turkey" is subject in international law to occupation law. First, Turkey is the occupying state with effective administration of the north, whereas RoC is the de jure state but without effective administration. Second, northern Cyprus is subject to the suspended acquis communitaire of the EU.

Copperline ..... could you please clarify this for me am not sure what you mean there

cheers

There are two considerations : The basic argument in international law is that whatever the motives or purported justifications for the Turkish intervention in 1974 it is an occupying state and therefore subject to the international law of occupation. The declaration of independence of the TRNC does not alter Turkey's status as occupying state with effective admin of the territory. On the other hand, the whole island of Cyprus is an EU state albeit with a suspended acquis in respect of the north. (the original was a response to a question by ....? : )

A bit more info on the likely events in the next 5 years re Orams would be appreciated CL.

[miltiades]

GR, get the photoshop out again mate, we could make a killing here.....

Photoshop? I've got even better... Ms Paint!

Ms Pain? - Is that a new code name for Horakill when its the wrong time or something?

YFred... I sussed you out from your very first thread

Like "MR-from-NG" ( ) ... you have made a "killing" in the north, from illegally acquiring and selling GC properties ...

You shall be exposed!

Oracle , you know nothing about MR-from-NG , I object strongly to your comments about a man that I call a friend that I have come to know as a decent Cypriot. Kindly withdraw your comments concerning a man that you know FA about . He has a family that he cares deeply for and respects those that respect him .

What you see and what reality presents ... are two different things, my obfuscated spitting cobra!

I dont think you heard right woman. I said that MR-from-NG is a friend of mine , any insults against a friend of mine will force me to resort in rebuking the "insulter" in your case the "insulteress" with highly inexorable contemptuous nefarious utterances. Please dont make me do it , just say sorry woman.

[The Cypriot]

There once were two Brits called Oram
Who... on land going cheap chanced their arm.
But justice was done
When the refugee won
Which now means the land is haram.

(And the shit in the north's hit the fan!)

I'll second that, thats very good re Kibreo.

Thanks, guys..... couldn't have happened to a nicer couple of muppets!

[eracles]

my predictions are that this will either speed up negotiations, now we are clear on who owns land and property - or at the behest of Turkey the negotiations collapse as a protest at the judgement. There's been no response from Turkey or the client state so far....we may see the latter?

[Oracle]

GR, get the photoshop out again mate, we could make a killing here.....

Photoshop? I've got even better... Ms Paint!

Ms Pain? - Is that a new code name for Horakill when its the wrong time or something?

YFred... I sussed you out from your very first thread

Like "MR-from-NG" ( ) ... you have made a "killing" in the north, from illegally acquiring and selling GC properties ...

You shall be exposed!

Oracle , you know nothing about MR-from-NG , I object strongly to your comments about a man that I call a friend that I have come to know as a decent Cypriot. Kindly withdraw your comments concerning a man that you know FA about . He has a family that he cares deeply for and respects those that respect him .

What you see and what reality presents ... are two different things, my obfuscated spitting cobra!

I dont think you heard right woman. I said that MR-from-NG is a friend of mine , any insults against a friend of mine will force me to resort in rebuking the "insulter" in your case the "insulteress" with highly inexorable contemptuous nefarious utterances. Please dont make me do it , just say sorry woman.

Make me ....

[CopperLine]

If this judgement does anything else Bananiot it at the very least explains a few of our compatriots who were eager to negotiate away Primary Law and the right that it gives us and our properties in the WHOLE of Cyprus.

The Annan Plan would have made this judgement impossible while 80% of our refugees waited around for 7 years till some committee would decide that they'd receive compensation with a decades old Market Value (not in cash)

The other 20% would have waited for Turkey to honour its signature.

DT,
I don't agree with the bit I've highlighted. The Annan Plan would not have been superior to or displaced EU law or ECHR and therefore even if it had been implemented cases such as Apostilides v Orams could still have been pursued. In fact had the Annan Plan been implemented then there would have been no need for Apostiledes to have gone to the ECJ since the whole of post Annan Cyprus would have been subject to the acquis

Copper, if you remember Bananiots ramblings about a story that broke out a while ago about Tpap's chance to gain Karpasia....well the deal was that if Tpap had given up on Primary law then he might have received Karpasia. Turns out that Karpasia not only was not taken but primary law derogations were included by Annan in the final plan.

Agreed, but this cuts to the heart of the matter. Can a political settlement trump compliance with human rights law ? My answer is no. For example, supposing you are the original title holder to a piece of land in Morphou and the terms of a political settlement resulted in that land being transferred to the authority and ownership of your nemesis; the result of the settlement would be that you were still deprived of your right to enjoy your property. Immediately there is a justiciable human right breach.

[eracles]

There once were two Brits called Oram
Who... on land going cheap chanced their arm.
But justice was done
When the refugee won
Which now means the land is haram.

(And the shit in the north's hit the fan!)

I'll second that, thats very good re Kibreo.

Thanks, guys..... couldn't have happened to a nicer couple of muppets!

Whatever, these guys mad a huge mistake and they may pay heavily, I think we should be a bit more civil and remember there's gullible greedy people everywhere, even Greek Cypriots! The real crooks here are the administration in the north, who on the one hand say they want peace, but on the other sell land that does not belong to them, but to the people they claim to want peace with. It's just all phoney really.

[Viewpoint]

'I feel I have got justice from the EU and I’m sure all the other Greek Cypriot refugees suffering from the same problem will feel like me today' - Meletis Apostolides

I feel extremely happy for YOU, Mr. Apostolides. Every Greek Cypriot, well, perhaps with the exception of two, is overjoyed today with this judgment!!

What has he got?

Victory.

His victory is our victory.

Hollow very hollow but you have to be happy with toliet paper decision, enforcing them is where the real vistory is, you have along way to go to get there.

VP , you do surprise me by your "sour grapes" statements. The Judgement of the Court of Justice is of immense importance if only because it re-enforces the EU's position THAT ALL LAND situated in Cyprus is territory of the RoC "It is common ground that the land is situated in the territory of the Republic of Cyprus " (para 7 , refering to Apostolides's land )
Your assertion that Limassol Paphos and Stroumbi are foreign places to you is pure unadulterated nonsense , but understandable since that you are anything but a Cypriot.

Miltiades all the court did was clarify article 10 that decisions taken in the "RoC" courts can be enforced in other member states. Now you people think that having that information you can enforce it, go ahead feel free to take assets and put people in jail if you feel it will help you get the trust ıf TCs and unification. This judgement does not solve the Cyprus problem it only makes it that much more complicated. The "RoC" will net get one inch of land or nor will one Turkish Soldier or Settler leave. Plus its not sour grapes its seeing things for what they are.