Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

GR, have u got the list of GC civilians killed by EOKA and explanations why they were killed?

That's your problem to research not mine.


I answered someone’s question who wondered why he had to leave his village and head for an enclave…

GR, I keep on telling you that the movement to the enclaves was for better protection it provided. You have to see it from the TC point of view, And yes, unfortunately it was the TMT directing the peoples 'exodus' but that was their duty to 'protect'. I will add that I no way supported their actions of preventing inter communal relationships. My family also suffered at their hands. They were threatened and two attempts were made to burn their house down. The reason was that they spoke to the GCs. My poor grandfather earned a few piastres to carry out his job as the Moukhtari, Can you imagine the pressure he was under. Anyway he ignored the TMT and it nearly cost his life.(together with my grandmother, who was woken up at the acrid smell of the burning house.)

Let's have a closer look at the TMT's duty to "protect" the TCs.

Here is the evidence that really does clear the air about Turkish propaganda with regards to the enclaves:

In addition to the hostile environment that was created by combatants on both sides, there was a second factor that led to the polarization of both communities: with a view toward partition, the Turks withdrew from predominantly Greek areas and evicted Greeks from areas where Turks were in the majority.

Turkish extremists forced several thousand Turkish peasants to abandon their farms and animals and move into an overcrowded Turkish enclave in Nicosia.

And any TC that resisted or refused to abandon their homes and move into enclaves were either murdered or went missing:

Turkish Cypriots who favoured compromise or a close relationship between the two ethnic communities were targets of TMT violence.

In Limassol, a Turkish Cypriot owner of a restaurant popular with Greeks was threatened and later murdered by the TMT.

Two progressive-thinking, London-educated Turkish barristers who spoke against partition were killed outright by these same Turkish gangs.

The sole aim of the enclaves was so that the TMT extremists were more easily able to gather all TCs and mobilise them towards partition. This could not be achieved if the TCs remained scattered all over Cyprus.

"Thus the aim of partition, camouflaged by Turkish propaganda as `federation,' was relentlessly pursued regardless of loss of human life and the human misery created.

On 23 Dec 63, Turkish Gangs force Armenians to abandon their homes, shops, schools and clubs at gunpoint, to make more room for TCs and create another enclave within the Armenian quarter of Nicosia.

On December 23, 1963, Turkish gangs also moved through the Armenian quarter of Nicosia and forced the inhabitants at gunpoint to leave their houses, shops, church, school and clubs to make room for more Turks.

http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.html

Therefore, we can conclude that the TC claims that enclaves were set up for protection against the Greeks is false. The primary objective for the TMT was TAKSIM!

In Turkish there is a saying: Denize düşenö yılana sarılır". Meaning, ' him who falls into the sea, grabs hold of the [sea] serpent.

At the time (1963) it was their lives that the ordinary Cypriot peasant was primarily worried about. None thought that this was a move towards Partition. If indeed this was the case, then only the TMT leadership and RRDenktas knew this. With hind sight you can read what you like into this. My grandfather never even spoke of Partition. When he was asked to move to Kophinou then on to Ay. Theodoros, partition was far from his mind. Then I am asking myself, why Ay Theodoros? A mixed village with a large GC population. Now that is surprising.

You are the one that stated it was the TMT's duty to "protect".

This was not their duty at all, and they murdered many TCs and forced many more into enclaves as their one and only objective was Taksim and not to protect the TCs.

The evidence is right there in front of your very own nose.

I never disagreed on what the TMT did. As I did point out my family relationship with them. At the time they advised people to concentrate in certain areas for protection from marauding murderers - who ever they were. I doubt if most of the TMT members (local peasants) knew of the ultimate goal of 'Partition'.

I cant believe you are so 'bloody minded' to assume ALL knew these secret plans hatched by RRD and the TMT leadership.

Remember, hindsight teaches you a lot; including ofcourse yourself.

So by your own admission, you never disagreed with what TMT did?

Did you mean what you just posted or was it just an "accident"? :roll:

[Oracle]

GR, have u got the list of GC civilians killed by EOKA and explanations why they were killed?

That's your problem to research not mine.


I answered someone’s question who wondered why he had to leave his village and head for an enclave…

GR, I keep on telling you that the movement to the enclaves was for better protection it provided. You have to see it from the TC point of view, And yes, unfortunately it was the TMT directing the peoples 'exodus' but that was their duty to 'protect'. I will add that I no way supported their actions of preventing inter communal relationships. My family also suffered at their hands. They were threatened and two attempts were made to burn their house down. The reason was that they spoke to the GCs. My poor grandfather earned a few piastres to carry out his job as the Moukhtari, Can you imagine the pressure he was under. Anyway he ignored the TMT and it nearly cost his life.(together with my grandmother, who was woken up at the acrid smell of the burning house.)

Let's have a closer look at the TMT's duty to "protect" the TCs.

Here is the evidence that really does clear the air about Turkish propaganda with regards to the enclaves:

In addition to the hostile environment that was created by combatants on both sides, there was a second factor that led to the polarization of both communities: with a view toward partition, the Turks withdrew from predominantly Greek areas and evicted Greeks from areas where Turks were in the majority.

Turkish extremists forced several thousand Turkish peasants to abandon their farms and animals and move into an overcrowded Turkish enclave in Nicosia.

And any TC that resisted or refused to abandon their homes and move into enclaves were either murdered or went missing:

Turkish Cypriots who favoured compromise or a close relationship between the two ethnic communities were targets of TMT violence.

In Limassol, a Turkish Cypriot owner of a restaurant popular with Greeks was threatened and later murdered by the TMT.

Two progressive-thinking, London-educated Turkish barristers who spoke against partition were killed outright by these same Turkish gangs.

The sole aim of the enclaves was so that the TMT extremists were more easily able to gather all TCs and mobilise them towards partition. This could not be achieved if the TCs remained scattered all over Cyprus.

"Thus the aim of partition, camouflaged by Turkish propaganda as `federation,' was relentlessly pursued regardless of loss of human life and the human misery created.

On 23 Dec 63, Turkish Gangs force Armenians to abandon their homes, shops, schools and clubs at gunpoint, to make more room for TCs and create another enclave within the Armenian quarter of Nicosia.

On December 23, 1963, Turkish gangs also moved through the Armenian quarter of Nicosia and forced the inhabitants at gunpoint to leave their houses, shops, church, school and clubs to make room for more Turks.

http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.html

Therefore, we can conclude that the TC claims that enclaves were set up for protection against the Greeks is false. The primary objective for the TMT was TAKSIM!

In Turkish there is a saying: Denize düşenö yılana sarılır". Meaning, ' him who falls into the sea, grabs hold of the [sea] serpent.

At the time (1963) it was their lives that the ordinary Cypriot peasant was primarily worried about. None thought that this was a move towards Partition. If indeed this was the case, then only the TMT leadership and RRDenktas knew this. With hind sight you can read what you like into this. My grandfather never even spoke of Partition. When he was asked to move to Kophinou then on to Ay. Theodoros, partition was far from his mind. Then I am asking myself, why Ay Theodoros? A mixed village with a large GC population. Now that is surprising.

You are the one that stated it was the TMT's duty to "protect".

This was not their duty at all, and they murdered many TCs and forced many more into enclaves as their one and only objective was Taksim and not to protect the TCs.

The evidence is right there in front of your very own nose.

I never disagreed on what the TMT did. As I did point out my family relationship with them. At the time they advised people to concentrate in certain areas for protection from marauding murderers - who ever they were. I doubt if most of the TMT members (local peasants) knew of the ultimate goal of 'Partition'.

I cant believe you are so 'bloody minded' to assume ALL knew these secret plans hatched by RRD and the TMT leadership.

Remember, hindsight teaches you a lot; including ofcourse yourself.

Taksim was never a secret ... only their methods!

[denizaksulu]

GR, have u got the list of GC civilians killed by EOKA and explanations why they were killed?

That's your problem to research not mine.


I answered someone’s question who wondered why he had to leave his village and head for an enclave…

GR, I keep on telling you that the movement to the enclaves was for better protection it provided. You have to see it from the TC point of view, And yes, unfortunately it was the TMT directing the peoples 'exodus' but that was their duty to 'protect'. I will add that I no way supported their actions of preventing inter communal relationships. My family also suffered at their hands. They were threatened and two attempts were made to burn their house down. The reason was that they spoke to the GCs. My poor grandfather earned a few piastres to carry out his job as the Moukhtari, Can you imagine the pressure he was under. Anyway he ignored the TMT and it nearly cost his life.(together with my grandmother, who was woken up at the acrid smell of the burning house.)

Let's have a closer look at the TMT's duty to "protect" the TCs.

Here is the evidence that really does clear the air about Turkish propaganda with regards to the enclaves:

In addition to the hostile environment that was created by combatants on both sides, there was a second factor that led to the polarization of both communities: with a view toward partition, the Turks withdrew from predominantly Greek areas and evicted Greeks from areas where Turks were in the majority.

Turkish extremists forced several thousand Turkish peasants to abandon their farms and animals and move into an overcrowded Turkish enclave in Nicosia.

And any TC that resisted or refused to abandon their homes and move into enclaves were either murdered or went missing:

Turkish Cypriots who favoured compromise or a close relationship between the two ethnic communities were targets of TMT violence.

In Limassol, a Turkish Cypriot owner of a restaurant popular with Greeks was threatened and later murdered by the TMT.

Two progressive-thinking, London-educated Turkish barristers who spoke against partition were killed outright by these same Turkish gangs.

The sole aim of the enclaves was so that the TMT extremists were more easily able to gather all TCs and mobilise them towards partition. This could not be achieved if the TCs remained scattered all over Cyprus.

"Thus the aim of partition, camouflaged by Turkish propaganda as `federation,' was relentlessly pursued regardless of loss of human life and the human misery created.

On 23 Dec 63, Turkish Gangs force Armenians to abandon their homes, shops, schools and clubs at gunpoint, to make more room for TCs and create another enclave within the Armenian quarter of Nicosia.

On December 23, 1963, Turkish gangs also moved through the Armenian quarter of Nicosia and forced the inhabitants at gunpoint to leave their houses, shops, church, school and clubs to make room for more Turks.

http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.html

Therefore, we can conclude that the TC claims that enclaves were set up for protection against the Greeks is false. The primary objective for the TMT was TAKSIM!

In Turkish there is a saying: Denize düşenö yılana sarılır". Meaning, ' him who falls into the sea, grabs hold of the [sea] serpent.

At the time (1963) it was their lives that the ordinary Cypriot peasant was primarily worried about. None thought that this was a move towards Partition. If indeed this was the case, then only the TMT leadership and RRDenktas knew this. With hind sight you can read what you like into this. My grandfather never even spoke of Partition. When he was asked to move to Kophinou then on to Ay. Theodoros, partition was far from his mind. Then I am asking myself, why Ay Theodoros? A mixed village with a large GC population. Now that is surprising.

You are the one that stated it was the TMT's duty to "protect".

This was not their duty at all, and they murdered many TCs and forced many more into enclaves as their one and only objective was Taksim and not to protect the TCs.

The evidence is right there in front of your very own nose.

I never disagreed on what the TMT did. As I did point out my family relationship with them. At the time they advised people to concentrate in certain areas for protection from marauding murderers - who ever they were. I doubt if most of the TMT members (local peasants) knew of the ultimate goal of 'Partition'.

I cant believe you are so 'bloody minded' to assume ALL knew these secret plans hatched by RRD and the TMT leadership.

Remember, hindsight teaches you a lot; including ofcourse yourself.

So by your own admission, you never disagreed with what TMT did?

Did you mean what you just posted or was it just an "accident"? :roll:

I did not agree with the methods used against decent Turkish Cypriots, when they were forbidden to inter-act with their Greek Cypriot neighbors.

[denizaksulu]

GR, have u got the list of GC civilians killed by EOKA and explanations why they were killed?

That's your problem to research not mine.


I answered someone’s question who wondered why he had to leave his village and head for an enclave…

GR, I keep on telling you that the movement to the enclaves was for better protection it provided. You have to see it from the TC point of view, And yes, unfortunately it was the TMT directing the peoples 'exodus' but that was their duty to 'protect'. I will add that I no way supported their actions of preventing inter communal relationships. My family also suffered at their hands. They were threatened and two attempts were made to burn their house down. The reason was that they spoke to the GCs. My poor grandfather earned a few piastres to carry out his job as the Moukhtari, Can you imagine the pressure he was under. Anyway he ignored the TMT and it nearly cost his life.(together with my grandmother, who was woken up at the acrid smell of the burning house.)

Let's have a closer look at the TMT's duty to "protect" the TCs.

Here is the evidence that really does clear the air about Turkish propaganda with regards to the enclaves:

In addition to the hostile environment that was created by combatants on both sides, there was a second factor that led to the polarization of both communities: with a view toward partition, the Turks withdrew from predominantly Greek areas and evicted Greeks from areas where Turks were in the majority.

Turkish extremists forced several thousand Turkish peasants to abandon their farms and animals and move into an overcrowded Turkish enclave in Nicosia.

And any TC that resisted or refused to abandon their homes and move into enclaves were either murdered or went missing:

Turkish Cypriots who favoured compromise or a close relationship between the two ethnic communities were targets of TMT violence.

In Limassol, a Turkish Cypriot owner of a restaurant popular with Greeks was threatened and later murdered by the TMT.

Two progressive-thinking, London-educated Turkish barristers who spoke against partition were killed outright by these same Turkish gangs.

The sole aim of the enclaves was so that the TMT extremists were more easily able to gather all TCs and mobilise them towards partition. This could not be achieved if the TCs remained scattered all over Cyprus.

"Thus the aim of partition, camouflaged by Turkish propaganda as `federation,' was relentlessly pursued regardless of loss of human life and the human misery created.

On 23 Dec 63, Turkish Gangs force Armenians to abandon their homes, shops, schools and clubs at gunpoint, to make more room for TCs and create another enclave within the Armenian quarter of Nicosia.

On December 23, 1963, Turkish gangs also moved through the Armenian quarter of Nicosia and forced the inhabitants at gunpoint to leave their houses, shops, church, school and clubs to make room for more Turks.

http://www.ahmp.org/MedByp2.html

Therefore, we can conclude that the TC claims that enclaves were set up for protection against the Greeks is false. The primary objective for the TMT was TAKSIM!

In Turkish there is a saying: Denize düşenö yılana sarılır". Meaning, ' him who falls into the sea, grabs hold of the [sea] serpent.

At the time (1963) it was their lives that the ordinary Cypriot peasant was primarily worried about. None thought that this was a move towards Partition. If indeed this was the case, then only the TMT leadership and RRDenktas knew this. With hind sight you can read what you like into this. My grandfather never even spoke of Partition. When he was asked to move to Kophinou then on to Ay. Theodoros, partition was far from his mind. Then I am asking myself, why Ay Theodoros? A mixed village with a large GC population. Now that is surprising.

You are the one that stated it was the TMT's duty to "protect".

This was not their duty at all, and they murdered many TCs and forced many more into enclaves as their one and only objective was Taksim and not to protect the TCs.

The evidence is right there in front of your very own nose.

I never disagreed on what the TMT did. As I did point out my family relationship with them. At the time they advised people to concentrate in certain areas for protection from marauding murderers - who ever they were. I doubt if most of the TMT members (local peasants) knew of the ultimate goal of 'Partition'.

I cant believe you are so 'bloody minded' to assume ALL knew these secret plans hatched by RRD and the TMT leadership.

Remember, hindsight teaches you a lot; including ofcourse yourself.

Taksim was never a secret ... only their methods!

Agreed (again). When we were all shouting for TAKSIM as kids it was for an agreed partition. Whoever dreamt of WAR? No one. Nowadays even an agreed partition is anathema to me.GOD FORBID.

[Piratis]

Pirates, still you have sidelined the question posed. If you're so focused on the past I think you'll have more fun by picking up Homer again for your bloodlust passion and Greek pride and perspective on the historical backbone of the interpretation of invaders. In the meantime maybe The Clouds by Aristophanes might be more your cup of tea - I'm sure many that write on this forum would like that. So, do I need to say it again please, please, please - STICK TO THE POINT - enough with the wild flalings of crazy argument, step up and get real.

Militades, I respect your ability to source knowledge but knowledge without wisdom is useless - your answer still remains outstanding.
I really have no hatred in my heart for what had occurred as recent history has been unkind to many and many have lost loved ones on both sides. For me, it is a case of having to heal the wounds which requires acceptance of the part we played and proportional restitution for proportional suffering. Unfortunately what the south has done now is monstrous - even in our wildest dreams did we not conceive the Greek Cypriots (majority) to be so ruthless. By continuing obfuscate my rights and the thousands like me, you deny the damage "you" have caused innocent people (before Turkey and 1974) and by continuing to paint a one sided picture as demonstrated but what appears to be 100% of Greek Cypriot writers on this forum all continue to fall into one or multiple descriptions I have mentioned.

I will share with you more when you show me that you too are aware of the injustice of the situation and that there are thieves on both sides which means the thieves on both sides must make fair restitution for the property they utilised and continue to utilise. Remember Turkey didn't drive me from my home "you" did.

The bloodlust is all coming from the Turks my friend. We are not the ones who invaded you, you are the ones who invaded us.

You are trying to blame the GCs because you also suffered and had casualties in the conflicts and wars that you started. Do you deny that in the 50s you collaborated with the Imperialists and attacked the Greek Cypriots starting the inter-communal conflict with the aim to again deny to the Cypriot people their self-determination and gain Ottoman style privileges on our expense? Do you deny that all your casualties in 1974 happened after the Turkish invasion had started? How can you blame us for the casualties that you had during conflicts and wars which you started against us???

You will continue to suffer and in the future you will certainly have even more casualties because you continue to insist to collaborate with foreing Imperialists trying to impose your rule by force on the Cypriot people. You deserve what you got, and you will fully deserve the bad things that will happen to you in the future as well.

War is your choice, not mine. Accept human rights for all, accept democracy one person one vote without racist descriminations and Ottoman style privilages for anybody, and then we can all live in Cyprus in peace.

But as long as you are waging war on us trying to take away our human and democratic rights and have unfair and disproportional gains on our expense, then you should know that we will fight back and cause casualties and suffering to you as well, and we would be perfectly justified to do so.

[Acikgoz]

Militades.
Let me put it this way, if you can respond honestly to my question then I will happily share with you the personal information of his surname and you will be able to verify my position given it appears to be a corner stone of you admitting a truth. If you can show your sincerity and thereafter you can be satisfied with mine, then I would like to invite you to share a coffee with me in Lefkosa next week if you'd like to discuss further.
If not I will have learned something about the people on this string and have proved that my opinions of the types of characters here holds true.

[miltiades]

Militades.
Let me put it this way, if you can respond honestly to my question then I will happily share with you the personal information of his surname and you will be able to verify my position given it appears to be a corner stone of you admitting a truth. If you can show your sincerity and thereafter you can be satisfied with mine, then I would like to invite you to share a coffee with me in Lefkosa next week if you'd like to discuss further.
If not I will have learned something about the people on this string and have proved that my opinions of the types of characters here holds true.

What exactly do you want my opinion on. I have already posted that in 1963 7 T/Cs all with the first name of Osman lost their lives , 2 of those were from Paphos.
Thank you for your kind invitation , I shall take you up on that when I'm next in Cyprus , my visits however would never involve political discussions since such visits are primary scheduled as humanitarian.
Thank you any way.

[Acikgoz]

Well Militades, thank you for trying to be as sincere as you can be, but unfortunately if that is the best you can come up with in the context of this issue then I am sadened. I was holding out for at least some person to raise the existence of double standards in the actions and thoughts of Greek Cypriots on the property issue and I thought given your knowledge base or access to one it may have been you.
I will leave it at that.
Sincerely.

[DT.]

Well Militades, thank you for trying to be as sincere as you can be, but unfortunately if that is the best you can come up with in the context of this issue then I am sadened. I was holding out for at least some person to raise the existence of double standards in the actions and thoughts of Greek Cypriots on the property issue and I thought given your knowledge base or access to one it may have been you.
I will leave it at that.
Sincerely.

For the FOURTH TIME!!!

You request empathy but have displayed none of your own......
Once again...make a start, be the example, show us the way....where has Turkey committed crimes against the GC's?


Why do you avoid this?

Show us where Turkey has wronged the GC's and the crimes it committed against us and you will receive a heap of empathy back, I guarantee you.

[miltiades]

Well Militades, thank you for trying to be as sincere as you can be, but unfortunately if that is the best you can come up with in the context of this issue then I am sadened. I was holding out for at least some person to raise the existence of double standards in the actions and thoughts of Greek Cypriots on the property issue and I thought given your knowledge base or access to one it may have been you.
I will leave it at that.
Sincerely.

You have still not answered my question , may we at least know the first and second letter of your fathers surname , its just rather odd that the list of OSMANS killed in 1963 , out of the two from Paphos neither came from Istinjo , the village that you said was predominantly G/C when in fact it was 100% T/C.
As far as your other points are concerned re property , the T/C property in the ROC has not been sold to foreigners but remains registered in the original deeds name.
How about G/C property in the occupied areas ?