Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

Miltiades wrote:

By 1958 the number of Cypriot police had risen to 5475 of which G/Cs were 930, T/Cs 3832 British 657 , others 56.
Its clear here that the notorious British dogma of divide and rule was in full swing.

Why divide and rule, Miltiades? EOKA began struggling for Enosis in 1955. TCs were against Enosis, beside a Greek-GC ruled Cyprus. Right? Under such circumstances, what's wrong with Brits recruiting TCs as police auxilaries? What's wrong with TCs who accepted to join British Police force to struggle against EOKA? What's wrong with establishment of TMT as a counter organization to EOKA?

Had there been no armed struggle between 2 underground organizations(I wish it didn't happen) and no Enosis/Taksim demands; there would have been still a problem.

As I always stated the essential of the problem is power sharing in Cyprus. TCs want equal power sharing on legislative and judicial bodies because all Turks and TCs r aware of that Hellenes haven't forgotten and forgiven 1453, 1571, 1974.

Our common past kills every possibility for TCs voluntarily accepting minority status or with ur words "equal citizenship" in Cyprus.

Keep considering ur EOKA fighters how u wish but don't forget that the leader of both EOKAs was the same man; even most probably vast majority of EOKA-B members were EOKA members.

Anyway, I hope at least u r aware of that no TCs accept EOKA as liberation fighters of Cyprus but maybe Kikapu and his like minded TCs; I'm not sre.

Miltiades wrote:

The T/Cs are at the moment ruled and dictated to right now by a foreign country , I doubt whether they will remain oblivious to their graduial assimilation , or rather extinction by Turkey.Sooner or later they will rebel , take it from me its a matter of time before more and more voices are raised against the Turkish occupation.

This is ur and ur leadership only dream; a part of Akritas plan. Fabian Tactics: "Economically isolate them till they rebel against our enemies and help us free our country from Turks." Keep pursuing the same policy. Vast majority of TCs emigrated because of economic difficulties they faced in Northern Cyprus not because they were against Turkey and the so-called occupation army. Those TCs r angry with GC-Greek leadership and ur foreign backers.

If u reckon that ur foreign backers give support to ur cause and demands bcz of u r the rightful side; u r mistaken. They abuse one of ur weaknesses for their own interests. It is a fact that GC-Greek leadership like this mutual interests game. Do they care abt the GC refugees? No of course.

All Cypriots as far as I'm concerned are the majority. The minute that a Cypriot becomes a Turk and a Greek , Armenian or Latin then of course one has to look as to the numbers that make up those who call themselves Greek , Turkish , Armenian etc. It looks as if the G/Cs are then the overwhelming majority , the T/Cs a size able minority and the rest a tiny minority. If you believe that the T/Cs are Turks first and then Cypriots then they are by definition based on numerical realities a minority and the Armenians and other an even smaller minority.
If however you are a Cypriot as I'm first and foremost and believes that my motherland is Cyprus then you are most certainly in the majority.
To hell with majorities , we are all Cypriots .
As far as the Brits using the T/Cs to fight against the EOKA movement , what would you say if the GERMANS DURING WORLD WAR TWO , used the minorities in the various countries that they occupied to fight those that were engaged in their liberation struggle , in France for instance they could have used the small minority of Algerians or even Jews .

Milti,

TCs r TCs, GCs r GCs. We r all Cypriots not as a nation but as people born in Cyprus and having a unique to us Cypriot life style, tarditions and culture. Our Cypriotness stops there. The GC-Greek leadership and political interest groups of Greece and GCs have always collaborated and cooperated for their own common national interests and causes. Just a few days ago they reaffirmed this, during the visit of Karamanalis. The TC-Turkey leadership and political interest groups of TCs and Turkey have almsot same or similar relations. Why u pretending that u r not aware of these facts?

I'm VERY aware of these events and I'm saddened that we have not as yet become mature enough to stand on our own two feet and proudly declare our Independent Cypriotness . I understand that the 40 thousand Turkish occupying troops have something to do with our insecurities and I also understand that such events also cause the T/Cs to become more attached to the occupiers. I only wish I could encourage the Cypriot government to launch a programme designed to remove foreign influences surrounding our efforts to find a solution , there again I wish I could encourage Turkey to allow the T/Cs a voice that can be heard not as I beleive silenced by the settlers and the Turkish army.
Not long ago we learned of the T/C youths arrested for having the audacity ... to demand the removal of the occupying army from Cyprus .
Let me tell you something you can change historical names like the names of towns and villages but you can never change history , another thing I would like to remind Turkey off .

A several TC youngsters who were either really against the existence of Turkish troops in North or paid/decieved by some political groups to demonstrate against Turkish troops; only represent themselves. You r tending to take those type of TCs as a reference for yourself but rejecting to take reference vast majority of TC youngsters who wishes the existence of Turkish troops in North.

As I told u Milti, if u were right vast majority of TCs would have asked refuge from the so-called RoC...

As for the names of the villages and towns... Milti, even pre-74, most of the villages in Cyprus had one TC name and one GC name. Others who had one name were pronounced and written slighltly different by the people of 2 communities, respectively.

Here's a few examples:

1- Mari - Tatlısu

2- Lefkosia - Lefkoşa

3- Lemessos - Leymosun or Limasol

4- Varosha - Marash

5- Famagusta - Mağusa

Still today, TCs call most of the villages and towns in South with their Turkish names or pronounciations. For example u say Paphos, we say Baf. Maybe Ottomanized? Halil should be more knowledged abt the Turkish and Greek names of the villages in whole Cyprus.

At this occassion I'd like to ask Halil whether those 112 Turkish villages in South Cyprus were established by Ottomans or they were ex-catholic villages... Which villages were built by Ottomans from scratch during the Ottoman rule? Any ideas Milti?

Insan, for many years I have studied medieval maps of Cyprus. Studied their names/derivation of names and locations. I doubt if there were any solely Ottoman built villages at all. I'd like to think that I am wrong but there is no evidence to support this. I doubt if anyone could give a definitive answer.

I have close links with two wholly TC villages (pre-1974). Namely Civisil/Kivisili/Cevizli and Copno/Kophinou/Kofunye/Gecitkale in the Larnaka district. In the middle of Kivisili/Civisil there is a lovely small Byzantine church. Used (in peace time) once a year for the annual Panagiri. In Aşağı Köfünye/Lower Kophinou there were remnants of an old chapel - sıgn of an old Byzantıne church IMO. That was in 1958. I was too young to ask questions as to where are all the inhabitants of these villages. However in my village of Anglissidhes, there was a GC farmer, known as Gofunyodis/ Kophiniote. His ancestors had obviously lived in Kophinou. A nice man he was with a lovely daughter with red cheeks.

[denizaksulu]

Miltiades wrote:

By 1958 the number of Cypriot police had risen to 5475 of which G/Cs were 930, T/Cs 3832 British 657 , others 56.
Its clear here that the notorious British dogma of divide and rule was in full swing.

Why divide and rule, Miltiades? EOKA began struggling for Enosis in 1955. TCs were against Enosis, beside a Greek-GC ruled Cyprus. Right? Under such circumstances, what's wrong with Brits recruiting TCs as police auxilaries? What's wrong with TCs who accepted to join British Police force to struggle against EOKA? What's wrong with establishment of TMT as a counter organization to EOKA?

Had there been no armed struggle between 2 underground organizations(I wish it didn't happen) and no Enosis/Taksim demands; there would have been still a problem.

As I always stated the essential of the problem is power sharing in Cyprus. TCs want equal power sharing on legislative and judicial bodies because all Turks and TCs r aware of that Hellenes haven't forgotten and forgiven 1453, 1571, 1974.

Our common past kills every possibility for TCs voluntarily accepting minority status or with ur words "equal citizenship" in Cyprus.

Keep considering ur EOKA fighters how u wish but don't forget that the leader of both EOKAs was the same man; even most probably vast majority of EOKA-B members were EOKA members.

Anyway, I hope at least u r aware of that no TCs accept EOKA as liberation fighters of Cyprus but maybe Kikapu and his like minded TCs; I'm not sre.

Miltiades wrote:

The T/Cs are at the moment ruled and dictated to right now by a foreign country , I doubt whether they will remain oblivious to their graduial assimilation , or rather extinction by Turkey.Sooner or later they will rebel , take it from me its a matter of time before more and more voices are raised against the Turkish occupation.

This is ur and ur leadership only dream; a part of Akritas plan. Fabian Tactics: "Economically isolate them till they rebel against our enemies and help us free our country from Turks." Keep pursuing the same policy. Vast majority of TCs emigrated because of economic difficulties they faced in Northern Cyprus not because they were against Turkey and the so-called occupation army. Those TCs r angry with GC-Greek leadership and ur foreign backers.

If u reckon that ur foreign backers give support to ur cause and demands bcz of u r the rightful side; u r mistaken. They abuse one of ur weaknesses for their own interests. It is a fact that GC-Greek leadership like this mutual interests game. Do they care abt the GC refugees? No of course.

All Cypriots as far as I'm concerned are the majority. The minute that a Cypriot becomes a Turk and a Greek , Armenian or Latin then of course one has to look as to the numbers that make up those who call themselves Greek , Turkish , Armenian etc. It looks as if the G/Cs are then the overwhelming majority , the T/Cs a size able minority and the rest a tiny minority. If you believe that the T/Cs are Turks first and then Cypriots then they are by definition based on numerical realities a minority and the Armenians and other an even smaller minority.
If however you are a Cypriot as I'm first and foremost and believes that my motherland is Cyprus then you are most certainly in the majority.
To hell with majorities , we are all Cypriots .
As far as the Brits using the T/Cs to fight against the EOKA movement , what would you say if the GERMANS DURING WORLD WAR TWO , used the minorities in the various countries that they occupied to fight those that were engaged in their liberation struggle , in France for instance they could have used the small minority of Algerians or even Jews .

Milti,

TCs r TCs, GCs r GCs. We r all Cypriots not as a nation but as people born in Cyprus and having a unique to us Cypriot life style, tarditions and culture. Our Cypriotness stops there. The GC-Greek leadership and political interest groups of Greece and GCs have always collaborated and cooperated for their own common national interests and causes. Just a few days ago they reaffirmed this, during the visit of Karamanalis. The TC-Turkey leadership and political interest groups of TCs and Turkey have almsot same or similar relations. Why u pretending that u r not aware of these facts?

I'm VERY aware of these events and I'm saddened that we have not as yet become mature enough to stand on our own two feet and proudly declare our Independent Cypriotness . I understand that the 40 thousand Turkish occupying troops have something to do with our insecurities and I also understand that such events also cause the T/Cs to become more attached to the occupiers. I only wish I could encourage the Cypriot government to launch a programme designed to remove foreign influences surrounding our efforts to find a solution , there again I wish I could encourage Turkey to allow the T/Cs a voice that can be heard not as I beleive silenced by the settlers and the Turkish army.
Not long ago we learned of the T/C youths arrested for having the audacity ... to demand the removal of the occupying army from Cyprus .
Let me tell you something you can change historical names like the names of towns and villages but you can never change history , another thing I would like to remind Turkey off .

A several TC youngsters who were either really against the existence of Turkish troops in North or paid/decieved by some political groups to demonstrate against Turkish troops; only represent themselves. You r tending to take those type of TCs as a reference for yourself but rejecting to take reference vast majority of TC youngsters who wishes the existence of Turkish troops in North.

As I told u Milti, if u were right vast majority of TCs would have asked refuge from the so-called RoC...

As for the names of the villages and towns... Milti, even pre-74, most of the villages in Cyprus had one TC name and one GC name. Others who had one name were pronounced and written slighltly different by the people of 2 communities, respectively.

Here's a few examples:

1- Mari - Tatlısu

2- Lefkosia - Lefkoşa

3- Lemessos - Leymosun or Limasol

4- Varosha - Marash

5- Famagusta - Mağusa

Still today, TCs call most of the villages and towns in South with their Turkish names or pronounciations. For example u say Paphos, we say Baf. Maybe Ottomanized? Halil should be more knowledged abt the Turkish and Greek names of the villages in whole Cyprus.

At this occassion I'd like to ask Halil whether those 112 Turkish villages in South Cyprus were established by Ottomans or they were ex-catholic villages... Which villages were built by Ottomans from scratch during the Ottoman rule? Any ideas Milti?

I think you can count Lurucina as being pre-osmanli Turkish village.

Pre-Osmanlı Turkish village?

He found a bottle if pre-Osmanly Turkish Zivania

[Oracle]

In 1915 Greece rejected Cyprus. How many of us that participated in the struggle knew of this rejection , I will tell you how many , NONE ..

So, you blame Greece because it did not want Enosis with us given the option of acquiring us (its prerogative, after all!) .... How is Greece exactly to blame? Shock, horror, maybe it does not consider itself as our motherland, but only as an equal? Proof it never wanted to take our independence away from us (you gave the evidence), and behave like an Imperialist towards us, as the Otto-Turks did, and then the Brits did.

Nobody in my Greek side of the family considered Cyprus as an option to unite with Greece, only accepted it as an independent island of the Hellenismos. And you have presented support of this view ... Greece never wanted Enosis with Cyprus.

On the contrary, it is Cyprus that wanted Enosis with Greece in order to help it, first, remove the Otto-Turks and then remove the Brits. When both those were (semi) done - I agree, then Cyprus no longer felt the need for Enosis.

[Antreis]

Is the title of the thread "Grivas' Girls...The Women of EOKA!" ?
If so why then everybody discuss different things apart from the original post ?
What the village names and other irrelevant facts have to do with the heroic efforts of our women during those years ?
A.

[Oracle]

Vassilou on the cover of "Times of Cyprus"

Antreis, this is great! ... I wonder if we can get a copy of the article in this magazine about Vassilou Afxentiou?

[denizaksulu]

Mea culpa.....

I saw a post and answered without looking at the thread title.

Easily done. Not the first time either. Keeping to a topic is as difficult as keeping a new years resolution (in Oracles case, keeping to a diet)

[Antreis]

Vassilou on the cover of "Times of Cyprus"

Antreis, this is great! ... I wonder if we can get a copy of the article in this magazine about Vassilou Afxentiou?

I will try to scan the relevant articles which are in Greek.

[Oracle]

Vassilou on the cover of "Times of Cyprus"

Antreis, this is great! ... I wonder if we can get a copy of the article in this magazine about Vassilou Afxentiou?

I will try to scan the relevant articles which are in Greek.

I found this interesting article whilst looking for more leads of the above:

Tough Times

From Time Magazine, 1958; Times of Cyprus

Three bullets snapped through the sultry Cyprus air. Dead on the pavement lay Police Superintendent Donald Murray Thompson, a crumpled symbol of the decision last week by the rebel EOKA to end its jittery truce with the British military government. Next day, on the streets of ancient, walled Nicosia (pop. 60,000), the only unarmed Britons abroad were those who had to be: reporters for the jaunty Times of Cyprus (circ. 5,400).


For better than three years, dark-haired, dynamic Editor-Publisher Charles Foley has shaped his Times into a trimly edited, headline-splashed eight-column paper that generally has islanders choking on their breakfast. He thinks, and says, that British policy is a mess. He loudly deplores Greek terrorism for destroying all chance of peace. He blasts the island's Turkish leader for stirring up racial hatred.

But Foley is not exclusively a knuckle-rapper. "I have sympathy," he says, "for the Cypriots as a civilized people who have for generations been denied the ordinary rights of self-rule and freedom. If we Englishmen can't settle a simple matter like Cyprus without getting in deeper every day, we might as well get out of business as leader of the Commonwealth." Foley thinks Cyprus eventually ought to go under U.N. trusteeship.

"Alarm & Despondency?" With such forthrightness in a tippy-toes, security-conscious situation, the Times within a year zoomed past its only rival, the stodgy, pro-government Cyprus Mail, in circulation and influence. To prove army inefficiency, Foley printed stories on how his reporters had bluffed their way past guards into top-secret areas. When stern former Governor Sir John Harding put out a law giving him the right to suspend any newspaper without cause, Foley sent 150 protest telegrams to editors and such political leaders as Churchill and Attlee. In retaliation, the government fined him for publishing news likely to cause "alarm and despondency." Foley's fuss got the law revoked three months later.

Last year Foley greeted new Governor Sir Hugh Foot with quiet approval—until he became convinced that Colonial Office blimps were directing Foot into the same clumsy repression that undid his predecessor. One recent battle: a successful fight for the release of the editor of the island's largest Greek-language newspaper, jailed for refusing to kill a story.

"A Quiet Place." India-born and London-educated, Foley, 49, got his first job on the Chicago Tribune's famed Paris Tribune, later worked 15 years as foreign editor on Lord Beaverbrook's giant (circ. 4,116,157) Daily Express. After World War II, Foley wrote a bestselling book on Hitler's daredevil Handyman Otto Skorzeny and guerrilla warfare, quit the Beaver and sailed to Cyprus in 1955. "It seemed a quiet place," he says.

Chain-smoking Cypriot cigarettes, Foley puts in 80 hours a week at the Times office, drives his editorial staff (four Britons, six Foley-trained Cypriots) with querulous sarcasm. ("How many Cypriots," he is likely to cry, "care enough about the British cricket test matches to want to be told they've been rained off in one-inch type?") Foley will order replates by phone from his bed to keep up with the island's latest explosion, blithely ignoring groans from his Greek printing staff.

During EOKA's revolt of 1956-57 two Times staffers were killed, another frightened back to England. At least four times, clipped voices have phoned Foley to warn that bombs will explode under his home in ten minutes. They never have, and Foley now takes violence in his stride. "Everything happens twice in Cyprus," he says wearily. "It's like watching a really terrible film around for the second time."

(Time, Monday, Sep. 15, 1958)

[Oracle]

LAMBROU, Maria.

An Eoka messenger, she was arrested on 13.10.56. Although pregnant, she was taken for interrogation at the Omorphita Detention Center, where she suffered a miscarriage. She accused Sgt Jeffrey LEACH of the Special Branch of beating her during questioning. The Colonial Secretary denied her charges in a statement to the House of Commons.

LOIZIA, Vasso

A 22 year-old woman, she was an Eoka courier, who claimed she was stripped by male police officers on her arrest and then severely beaten. The court ruled her claims irrelevant.

(From Forums Annexation)

[Antreis]

A photo from the article of "Times of Cyprus " showing Vassilou in the vine fields of the Auxentiou family son in law .It is there the two young people met.