Cyprus-Forum.com

[Medman]

Markarios realised that ENOSIS would take longer than anticipated, whilst the Junta probably wanted a quick victory to prop up their regime, a bit like Galtieri did with Argentina and the Falklands in 82.

However Markarios wanted an independent Cyprus with strong Greek ties, that was what he wanted. Maybe EOKA 'B' and the junta wanted the process speeded up and found him an obstacle.

Didn't he state that the GC's desire for ENOSIS is what caused the events of 74 to be played out.

There will be countless conspiracies and counter arguments to what actually happened and there are passionate people on both sides that believe that what they say is write. That's how propoganda works isn't it.

[The Cypriot]

The Greeks , mostly ill mannered uncouth utterly unsophisticated looked down on the Cypriots !!!
I have said it before , many times in fact . When a few years back they were wiping the rears with newspapers , we in Cyprus were using bidets !!
When we in Cyprus were demanding ENOSIS with the the Greeks , it should have been the other way around they demanding ENOSIS with us.
I make no bones about it , we have nothing at all to learn from these microastous , nose pickers , street spitters untrustworthy selfish uncaring egoistic people.

O has told us what the Greeks thought of us and still do the bloody cowards .

Steady, milti... while I fully appreciate Cypriot resentment towards Greece, borne clearly out of a deep resentment towards the regime at the time's role in bringing about the disaster that has befallen our homeland, we must try to move on.

Cyprus paid the ultimate price so that democracy could be restored to the cradle of democracy. And as a modern democracy and supportive EU partner, Greece had and continues to have a strategic role to play in Cyprus's liberation. As does Britain.

It does not serve the Cypriot cause to keep bearing either country a grudge for past misdemeanours. Both are acutely aware of their wrong doings; both are acutely aware of their continued legal, moral and political obligations.

Our relations with both countries need to be cultivated for the sake of the national interest.

[insan]

Both some political groups(nationalists+ultra-nationalists) of Greece and some political groups of GCs(nationalists+ultra-nationalists) wanted Enosis. Ensois struggle of GC political groups backed by political groups of Greece. In order to achieve Enosis they collaborated, made plans and carried out. The weak GC left couldn't be the excuse of nationalist Hellenes to overthrow Makarios.

2 not trustworthy, mentally ill idiots; namely Ionnides and Sampson r the direct responsibles of the coup. Anything was expected from those retards. It is true that US supported all right wing groups in order to stop spreading of communism but never ever intended to jeopardize the stability of western alliance by driving Greece and Turkey into a war. To the contrary of this US always exerted to encourage rapproachement and reconciliation of Greece and Turkey.

However, except Constantine Papadopoulos and his backers; overwhelming majority of GCs and Greeks considered the rights granted to TCs and Turkey in Cyprus as "anti-Hellenic", "unjust", "anti-democratic", "pro-Turkish" etc. It is this mentality that fed Enosis thought.

Infact, the conversation of Ionnides made on 16th of July 1974 clearly proves my conclusion.

[insan]

Markarios realised that ENOSIS would take longer than anticipated, whilst the Junta probably wanted a quick victory to prop up their regime, a bit like Galtieri did with Argentina and the Falklands in 82.

However Markarios wanted an independent Cyprus with strong Greek ties, that was what he wanted. Maybe EOKA 'B' and the junta wanted the process speeded up and found him an obstacle.

Didn't he state that the GC's desire for ENOSIS is what caused the events of 74 to be played out.

There will be countless conspiracies and counter arguments to what actually happened and there are passionate people on both sides that believe that what they say is write. That's how propoganda works isn't it.

Until 1967, Makarios and leftists supported Enosis because of Turco-Phobia and the circumstances in Greece were suitable to demand Enosis with Greece. When Junta came into power the circumstances were not suitable for Makarios and leftists to pursue Enosis policy until Junta falls. That's why Makarios switched to so-called independence policy together with his leftist backers. TCs and Turks were not that naive not to analyze what's really going on.

[Viewpoint]

In those heady (for the Turks) days of 1974 and the headlong chauvinist charge that followed, the Tc side overlooked a fact- that in the days following the coup the GCs won their independence from Greece.

The clash between GCs and the mainland led coupists was the MAJOR event of July 1974. But the propaganda and the brainwashing the TCs underwent since then has not allowed them to understand this historical fact. In effect we could say that the Cypriot state was born on July 15 1974. The ensuing years, during which the GCs managed to hold the state together, preventing dissolution, mass emigration and economic collapse showed how quickly the GC community had matured.

The proof of the maturity came in 2004 when Cyprus was accepted in the EU having succesfully passed all tests and fulfilling all its obligations in record time.

Totally corrupted by Turkish cynicism the TC could not see the magnitute of the accomplishment of their fellow Cypriots for what it is- the first effective ssertion of Cypriotness in modern history. Stuck in the cynical Turkish world view the TCs will repeat mantras like "you were helped by...... Greece, USA, UK, fill in the blank with your choice. Nobody helps anyone enter the EU. A nation either passes the tests or it does not. Cyprus passed.

And now, instead of claiming their freedom, the TCs are still ruminating whether it would be better to be stuck in a Turkish controlled chamber of extinction or join a modern state as political equals. A state to the creation of which they contributed almost nothing, and will pay nothing for what they get.

VP above asks what is the alternative. This is the atlernative, to rejoin Cyprus. The other alternative is already half done, the election results should be a very loud and clear message. For every TC that voted there were TWO non Cypriot voters. How will the ratio be in the next election?

Greece got you into the EU, people are not stupid and know exactly how it happened, passing the test is one thing you have to get into the exam first and Greece blackmailed the EU to get you entry. Ask the EU if they are happy with the hot potatoe they find in their hands today?

Your maturity after 1974 came with the pumping of international funds of which you stole our share to prompt up your economy until you got on your feat by hijacking our recognition and using as if it only yours.

I agree with you that in 1974 you really got what you want a TC free GC state run by GCs only one draw back less land.

It is this "mature" GC state you want us to see as an alternative where there is no place for us and within a very short period of time we would be diminished to the status of a minority exposed to GC administered "democracy and human rights". No thanks it is this we will continue to fight against, the state you offer can be joined today but the majority of TCs remain in the TRNC, ask yourself and if you get the opportunity them why? The south to us is like a foreign country where we do not felel at home and unwelcome, TCs know this is how it would be if we were to unite as the GC demand.

Without guarantees and safeguards to ensure our offective contribution under a BBF with polticial equality as the world now supports we are not budging.

The imbalance of will of course change, the term now in the north which is being coined is NEW Generation Turkish Cypriots (those born here) will of course in time increase this is only natural and happens all over the world. I really feel GCs should be more concerned as it is these new generations of TCs who have no connections or sense of past with GCs with whom you will have to unite with, I sense that in 20 years time the tables will be reversed and GCs will be begging for partition as the population in the north will surpass yours own and the new generation TCs will demand no safeguards or guarantees for anyone and majority rule.

[Viewpoint]

It is time the T/Cs begun to reject Turkeys onslaught on their existence , reclaim their true identity that of the T/C
and challenge the influence exerted by Turkey and the settlers in every walk of life.
Cyprus is part of Europe and they have the choice to be part of Europe rather than part of a third world nation that still tolerates honour killings .
I wonder how many T/C fathers would be happy to see their daughters married to settlers , not many I should think.
T/Cs must resist efforts to eradicate their identity of a T/C.
Eradicating village and town names is one despicable act but eradicating an entire community is paramount to murder.
All Cypriots now know full well that the T/Cs are not the negotiating party but the settlers with Turkey are .
Turkish Cypriots must resist .

I think Miltiades what you have to ask TC fathers is whether they would prefer for their daughters to marry a Turk or a GC?

And one other question how do TCs say no to Turkey when the GCs only want to unite on their terms which is far worse than what we have today with Turkey?

[The Cypriot]

I thought GR! was asserting that Greeks also wanted Enosis ... when evidence suggests they view Cyprus as an Independent country (which admittedly is a part of the common Hellenic history)

I'm not sure that is what GR! was asserting but he can speak for himself.

But you were asserting that the Greek people (or the vast majority who didn't have 'Meghali Idhea' dillusions) didn't desire enosis. I have no reason to dispute this. What is important is what the majority of Cypriots wanted at the time and still want, which is freedom from outside interference to live in peace and prosperity.

Looking at the evidence; the junta wanted something else, and not Enosis, so it's a myth to suggest they did, since we do not know. It's also a myth that Greece had or has Enosis desires upon Cyprus.

They wanted to take control of Cyprus, ostensibly, on behalf of America. Also, they may have had their own internal reasons for a putsch on Cyprus, to rouse nationalist sentiment and assert their grip on power in Greece.

Whether this was best achieved through annexation/enosis or by propping up a puppet dictator (which would have amounted to the same thing), is entirely academic.

The results are what mattered and the results were the same. That's why I suggested you were splitting hairs.

[Viewpoint]

Nikitas says: In effect we could say that the Cypriot state was born on July 15 1974. The ensuing years, during which the GCs managed to hold the state together, preventing dissolution

Are you dreaming. You lost nearly half the island and you say that was a success?

I better look up for the 'new' definition of 'born'. What was it that was born? An amputee? Give me a break.

I think I know what Nikitas is driving at. On 15 July in 1974 EOKA-B launch a coup to overthrow the democratically-elected President, a fascist attempt to impose enosis with fascist Greece. The coup was repelled and, a week later, democracy was restored. Turkey, of course meanwhile, took full advantage and did what she did.

All Cypriots are still paying for her actions; and Turkey too is now paying as she tries to reconcile her role in Cyprus with her EU accession aspirations.

But, with the rejection of enosis, the true state of Cyprus was indeed born, albeit partly under foreign military rule.

A state where the aspiration of the majority was clearly and emphatically no longer "union and only union with Greece" while the aspiration of the minority that had hankered for "taksim" was no longer an issue.
A new state, born out of the ashes of civil war, foreign invasion and imposed division. A state which had to stand up, dust itself off, recover, rebuild, regain its dignity and prove to itself and to the world that it could endure.

A state which, against all odds and despite continuing foreign domination in the north, matured and made itself worthy of joining the European family as a full and equal member.

The state of Cyprus was born, albeit severely crippled, in 1974, and it came of age 30 years later, having finally come to terms with a dysfunctional limb, the pain and inconvenience of which could not be allowed to prevent progress.

Cyprus can and will continue to live, work, function and prosper, despite this dysfunctional limb, a source of constant sadness. For what choice does she have?

But the infected limb remains part of her. She will never give up hope that it will one day be saved and she will never, ever agree to amputation.

Hello physcial division ring any bells???

[Omer Seyhan]

nonsense from top to bottom. For one afrika is more or less screaming what you are saying day and night for plenty of years now. Anyone can read their papers. The above is simply what you want to beleive. The most striking part of your analysis is the assumption you have that we are all idiots (or 'donkeys' as you put it), yet you are the bright spark who knows it all and we should listen to you. Ofcourse a two-state solution is possible, we took the land, we wiped out almost any evidence of your existence, we turkified the whole place and allowed enough time to pass for another generation to grow as well as import settlers to maintain our numbers. 90% of the work is done. As far as everyday life is concerned two-states exist in cyprus. Anything left is purely success in the diplomatic arena. If we have to wait several decades for that then we will. We aint going anywhere.

...Yes indeed the same way you wiped out those few educated T/Cs in the 1960s who could wanted the Republic to work and who supported unity between Cypriots... I appreciate your honesty.

[Omer Seyhan]

One of the most honest statements ever made by a TC.

Ofcourse a two-state solution is possible, we took the land, we wiped out almost any evidence of your existence, we turkified the whole place and allowed enough time to pass for another generation to grow as well as import settlers to maintain our numbers. 90% of the work is done. As far as everyday life is concerned two-states exist in cyprus.

The remaining 10% DT involves finishing journalists, writers and poets who speak the truth. When they dont like what they hear they say "Who reads X newspaper?" or "They were only bombed once.."