Cyprus-Forum.com

[The Cypriot]

In that case why does GR have so many detractors vis a vis his stance towards Greece? He does have a point and most of the GC forumers have ganged up upon him; even his best friends

deniz, I can't answer for anyone but myself and I have never sided against GR in matters pertaining to Cypriotness.

I'm not entirely certain what GR's stance towards Greece is. I know his stance towards Cypriots not as patriotic to "Cyprus and only Cyprus" as he is, and I admire it. It is intelligent, honest, incisive, as well as aggressive and extreme on occasion but from what I gather he feels that it's about time aggressive extremists were given a taste of their own medicine.

[The Cypriot]

The premise that Enosis was the goal for the coup is wrong. Otherwise, the junta would not have 'respected' the Presidential post enough to replace Makarios with Sampson, but would have dissolved the Republic instead.

I think you're splitting hairs, O. This isn't a debate worth having.

However, your arguments and conclusions are valid and your prognosis spot-on!

Thanks, O. So please, no more of this "gifting-Cyprus-to-the-Turks" talk please. It only encourages idiots to reconfirm their idiocy.

[insan]

In those heady (for the Turks) days of 1974 and the headlong chauvinist charge that followed, the Tc side overlooked a fact- that in the days following the coup the GCs won their independence from Greece.

The clash between GCs and the mainland led coupists was the MAJOR event of July 1974. But the propaganda and the brainwashing the TCs underwent since then has not allowed them to understand this historical fact. In effect we could say that the Cypriot state was born on July 15 1974. The ensuing years, during which the GCs managed to hold the state together, preventing dissolution, mass emigration and economic collapse showed how quickly the GC community had matured.

The proof of the maturity came in 2004 when Cyprus was accepted in the EU having succesfully passed all tests and fulfilling all its obligations in record time.

Totally corrupted by Turkish cynicism the TC could not see the magnitute of the accomplishment of their fellow Cypriots for what it is- the first effective ssertion of Cypriotness in modern history. Stuck in the cynical Turkish world view the TCs will repeat mantras like "you were helped by...... Greece, USA, UK, fill in the blank with your choice. Nobody helps anyone enter the EU. A nation either passes the tests or it does not. Cyprus passed.

And now, instead of claiming their freedom, the TCs are still ruminating whether it would be better to be stuck in a Turkish controlled chamber of extinction or join a modern state as political equals. A state to the creation of which they contributed almost nothing, and will pay nothing for what they get.

VP above asks what is the alternative. This is the atlernative, to rejoin Cyprus. The other alternative is already half done, the election results should be a very loud and clear message. For every TC that voted there were TWO non Cypriot voters. How will the ratio be in the next election?

In 15-20 years time, the so-called Europeanization will erase the last traces of Cypriotness on this island. Overwhelming majority of Cyprus youth is under heavy influence of Europeanized life style. Most of them don't care abt good old family values anymore.

After 15-20 years being united or sepertated will loose it's meaning. Cyprus will become the second home of rich people all around the world. The richests of the world will play tricky political games on Cypriots in order to make them give consent for the sale of their properties to those rich non-Cypriots. The degenerated life style and various criminal activities will lead the emigration of middle class Cypriots.

It is obvious to me that GC community was deceived one more time by their leadership, Greek leadership and some political interest groups of Europe for the sake of owning the whole of Cyprus(The so-called national cause).

I hope TCs in North realize this fact and put their lives and affairs in a good order for a better future in their homeland.

Firstly titty man you always asked for an explanation of what is Cypriotism...Now you seemed to know exactly what it means...care to explain you new found knowledge on the subject?

Secondly, the majority of cavemen embraced progress and some did not...you reflest the latter titty man...

It's not a newly founded meaning, the lamer boomer. I've always told that Cypriot r the people who were born and lived all or most of their lives in Cyprus. As for the Cypriotness; it's the uniqe traditional values we have inherited form our Cyprus born ancestors and practiced in our daily lives. Lamers like u, will never be able to comprehend and understand what's what. Wise men need to repeat everything for at least a several hundred times to lamers to make them understand.

[denizaksulu]

The premise that Enosis was the goal for the coup is wrong. Otherwise, the junta would not have 'respected' the Presidential post enough to replace Makarios with Sampson, but would have dissolved the Republic instead.

I think you're splitting hairs, O. This isn't a debate worth having.

However, your arguments and conclusions are valid and your prognosis spot-on!

Thanks, O. So please, no more of this "gifting-Cyprus-to-the-Turks" talk please. It only encourages idiots to reconfirm their idiocy.

It would be nice to know who these idiots are


The Cypriot says: I think you're splitting hairs, O. This isn't a debate worth having


I think you SHOULD debate this so as to clear the air with these so called 'idiots'. I would not mind seeing your pov.

[The Cypriot]

It would be nice to know who these idiots are

Stop stirring, deniz. It's unbecoming of a man of your worth and intelligence.

The Cypriot says: I think you're splitting hairs, O. This isn't a debate worth having

I think you SHOULD debate this so as to clear the air with these so called 'idiots'. I would not mind seeing your pov.

It won't do that. It's just a minor point of order from O.

And why are you so keen to witness more feeble-minded people take a beating, deniz? Where's your compassion?

[Oracle]

The premise that Enosis was the goal for the coup is wrong. Otherwise, the junta would not have 'respected' the Presidential post enough to replace Makarios with Sampson, but would have dissolved the Republic instead.

I think you're splitting hairs, O. This isn't a debate worth having.

On the contrary, the politics behind the coup are worth exploring. We have debated this before, and ironed out some anomalies. The conclusion was that the junta acted as USA-representatives, inaugurating a puppet president. Comparisons were made with other similar US-backed scenarios.

Of course, the Turks took up the mantle that it was all about Enosis in order to 'justify' their invasion and implement Taksim. By us ignoring these reasons for the coup, plays into their hands (note phraseology) and ignoring the fact the GCs were fighting to prevent another take-over by Imperialists!

There is very little/no evidence that Greece itself, has ever wanted Enosis with Cyprus ....

[insan]

The premise that Enosis was the goal for the coup is wrong. Otherwise, the junta would not have 'respected' the Presidential post enough to replace Makarios with Sampson, but would have dissolved the Republic instead.

I think you're splitting hairs, O. This isn't a debate worth having.

On the contrary, the politics behind the coup are worth exploring. We have debated this before, and ironed out some anomalies. The conclusion was that the junta acted as USA-representatives, inaugurating a puppet president. Comparisons were made with other similar US-backed scenarios.

Of course, the Turks took up the mantle that it was all about Enosis in order to 'justify' their invasion and implement Taksim. By us ignoring these reasons for the coup, plays into their hands (note phraseology) and ignoring the fact the GCs were fighting to prevent another take-over by Imperialists!

There is very little/no evidence that Greece itself, has ever wanted Enosis with Cyprus ....

Junta should have been more stupid than what they were to openly declare Enosis. In such a case Turkey wouldn't even wait for 5 days to intervene. Still ridiculously exerting to turn everything to fit ur imaginations?

[denizaksulu]

It would be nice to know who these idiots are

Stop stirring, deniz. It's unbecoming of a man of your worth and intelligence.

The Cypriot says: I think you're splitting hairs, O. This isn't a debate worth having

I think you SHOULD debate this so as to clear the air with these so called 'idiots'. I would not mind seeing your pov.

It won't do that. It's just a minor point of order from O.

And why are you so keen to witness more feeble-minded people take a beating, deniz? Where's your compassion?

A minor point? You have lost the plot here. Numerous refugees and and dead a minor point indeed. I give up on you.

There you go again patronising people again.

[Get Real!]

The premise that Enosis was the goal for the coup is wrong. Otherwise, the junta would not have 'respected' the Presidential post enough to replace Makarios with Sampson, but would have dissolved the Republic instead.

A coup is simply an unconstitutional deposition of a legitimate government with an illegitimate one. Once that has been achieved, the illegitimate government can modify whatever it wants and when it wants!

In the case of Samson and Co, they only lasted five days in “power” so there wasn’t enough time for them to put any of their future plans into effect.

Not that most people were waiting with bated breath as to what those plans would’ve been… except yourself!

[Oracle]

The premise that Enosis was the goal for the coup is wrong. Otherwise, the junta would not have 'respected' the Presidential post enough to replace Makarios with Sampson, but would have dissolved the Republic instead.

A coup is simply an unconstitutional deposition of a legitimate government with an illegitimate one. Once that has been achieved, the illegitimate government can modify whatever it wants and when it wants!

Fair enough. It was an illegitimate act, I don't deny that. What none of us know as fact, are what their long term intentions were. To deduce it was Enosis is simply one view, yours and, expediently, the Turks'.

In the case of Samson and Co, they only lasted five days in “power” so there wasn’t enough time for them to put any of their future plans into effect.

You are assuming they had future plans other than setting up the Puppet.

Not that most people were waiting with bated breath as to what those plans would’ve been… except yourself!

No GR! ... that is grossly unfair. I just don't like assumptions especially when all they do is serve the Turks. As this one for Enosis clearly did/does!

I don't know any mainland Greeks who have ever wanted Enosis with Cyprus, myself and all my relatives included. (The reasons are not necessarily complimentary . )

But I know plenty of Cypriots who wanted Enosis ... and I am not one of them. I love having two homelands, Cyprus being number ONE, because I was born here So I am very protective of the Independence of BOTH.

Now think, carefully, who in practice it suits to continue the Myth of Enosis .....