Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

I am outraged. By both of you, insan and VP. Read all my recent posts very carefully to see what I said about EOKA and who they killed before casting dispersions in this way.

READ MY POSTS CAREFULLY. And then, if you have any dignity as Cypriots, you'll apologise.

But u still consider them as freedom fighters. That's what I'm objecting. Shall I still owe u an apology?

insan, those that fought the imperialists and their paid agents, in the cause of what they believed was freedom, were freedom fighters. Those that killed leftists simply because for their ideological beliefs were terrorists. Those (if there were any) who killed innocent civilians (Muslim or Christian) were terrorists. Are we clear now?

And you can apologise if you wish. But if you don't I won't hold it against you.

It seems to me that both groups in EOKA were under command of fascist Grivas and were fighting against Brits and if needed against GC leftists, TCs and Turks in order to annex Cyprus to a Greece under rule of fascist Greek monarchy.

I don't blame them for what they fought for. They believed that what they did was right. However I will never ever call their struggle as fight for freedom.

[The Cypriot]

I don't blame them for what they fought for. They believed that what they did was right. However I will never ever call their struggle as fight for freedom.

Men who fight those who deny them their freedom are 'freedom fighters', by definition.

Clearly, in EOKA's case, Cypriots of Muslim extraction saw the way EOKA chose to express this freedom as an infringement of their own freedom but that's another matter; the root, in fact, to the Cyprus problem.

[insan]

I don't blame them for what they fought for. They believed that what they did was right. However I will never ever call their struggle as fight for freedom.

Men who fight those who deny them their freedom are 'freedom fighters', by definition.

Clearly, in EOKA's case, Cypriots of Muslim extraction saw the way EOKA chose to express this freedom as an infringement of their own freedom but that's another matter; the root, in fact, to the Cyprus problem.

Ok man Ooops, gardash. Dealt.

[Bananiot]

What about when they murdered innocent young girls (Famagusta) just because they were British? What does that make them?

[denizaksulu]

All murdered auxillaries are included I think. Some killed by their own doing (making bombs), some civilians also included. There are dates and brief description of circumstances too. Unfortunately in Turkish. I can help in translating them.

Thanks, deniz. I'm only interested to know how many civilians of Muslim extraction were killed by EOKA. And, if possible, why they were killed. To see if those who killed them were "freedom fighters" or "terrorists".

This is the link, which was provided by Halil. Its not perfect as I know that at least one murdered TURKISH CYPRIOTS (civilian) is not listed.


http://www.kibrisliturksehitler.com/sehitler.htm

If you need any explanations please do not hesitate to ask.

I have to add that I find your use of the phrase Muslim extraction as inappropriate. I hope you will rectify this if you need some co-operation.

Thank you and Good Morning/Kalimera

[denizaksulu]

VP, the posts about EOKA in the last few hours - since you and I started discussing it.

You have to read my posts in context. I can't paste them. It won't make sense. You'll see what I mean if you do.

The Cypriot, are you denying that the struggle of EOKA and the aim of ENOSIS were not part and parcel of the same goal. I witnessed the anti British demonstrations in Kyrenia and the EOKA and ENOSIS slogan will forever remain in my memory - together with the smell of the tear gas used by the British army. They were two inseparable ideals.

I suggest that you have studied a lot of revisionary history books. Please tell me that I am wrong.

[denizaksulu]

Didnt the Brits and TCs fight EOKA, only fitting their memorial is in the north with their ally not their enemy.

Never heard it put like that before. Admittedly they did employ TC Auxillaries to help them. I doubt that it was Brits and TCs versus EOKA. Perhaps some GCs will see it like that, but I disagree with the above statement.

The TCs had to side with Brits as they were not strong enough alone to stop Gcs from signing their death warrant by giving Cyprus to Greece.

You will never grow up. Siding with the British is one thing. The Turkish Community fighting with the British against EOKA is another thing. It was the Brit. v EOKA with the help of the Auxillaries.

You tell me clever clogs why did the TCs side with Brits? against EOKA??

To prevent the British giving Cyprus to Greece.

As I said above; I had never heard it called that before. As far as we were concerned it was the struggle of EOKA v Britain. Cant one have an opinion different from you, before you call them names?

As far as I can gather from my research, and please correct me if I am wrong, not one civilian of Muslim extraction was killed by EOKA.

Only if they were bribed to dress up in British police uniforms were they attacked and killed by EOKA.

So it may not be true to say that such civilians of Muslim extraction sided with the British. Not openly anyway. But please do correct me if I am wrong.

I will provide you with a list tomorrow. The info is on my PC at work. Its not a perfect list, but you would be able to pick out the truer figures to help your research. Remind me if I do forget.

I hope it's not that iffy list you posted before, with TCs killed by influenza and such like

Yes dearest. It is the same list but I am prepared to help identify 'suspect' ones. What I am thinking of is that they may have belonged to the TMT, thus died 'in active service'. The way they died has never been a secret Oracle. No misleading apart from boosting up the numbers - perhaps.

[The Cypriot]

This is the link, which was provided by Halil. Its not perfect as I know that at least one murdered TURKISH CYPRIOTS (civilian) is not listed.


http://www.kibrisliturksehitler.com/sehitler.htm

If you need any explanations please do not hesitate to ask.

Thanks

I have to add that I find your use of the phrase Muslim extraction as inappropriate. I hope you will rectify this if you need some co-operation.

In what way is it inappropriate, deniz? I think it's a more honest description and need convincing otherwise.

[denizaksulu]

This is the link, which was provided by Halil. Its not perfect as I know that at least one murdered TURKISH CYPRIOTS (civilian) is not listed.


http://www.kibrisliturksehitler.com/sehitler.htm

If you need any explanations please do not hesitate to ask.

Thanks

I have to add that I find your use of the phrase Muslim extraction as inappropriate. I hope you will rectify this if you need some co-operation.

In what way is it inappropriate, deniz? I think it's a more honest description and need convincing otherwise.

I agree that mostly we are Moslem, I can not see how one is of 'Muslim extaction'. It doesnt make sense. Anyway The Cyprus constitution uses the term 'Turkish Cypriots'. Whats wrong with that?

[The Cypriot]

The Cypriot, are you denying that the struggle of EOKA and the aim of ENOSIS were not part and parcel of the same goal.

No. I am not. The goal was freedom. To the EOKA leadership, and the impressionable young men that followed them, that meant enosis.

I suggest that you have studied a lot of revisionary history books. Please tell me that I am wrong.

I am happy to tell you: you are wrong. I am trying to look back at events with cold objectivity, with 20-20 hindsight, and from a uniquely Cypriot perspective.