Cyprus-Forum.com

[Hermes]

Dear Oracle

Let's take your points one at a time.

(1) To the best of my knowledge, my book, The Cyprus Tapes, was not sponsored by any one. If it was, then I did not know about it. The book itself explains why it came to be written and who suggested the idea in the first place. That person was the late Nancy Crawshaw, the author of The Cyprus Revolt, a book, I'm told has the respect of Greek and Turkish Cypriots alike.

(2) I repeat I am not involved with the current memorial project. I lobbied for 'a memorial' back in 2000 or thereabouts. I will not apologize or take responsibility for the actions of others.

(3) The choice of location is because those to be named on the memorial died in Cyprus. It is a tradition of the British Army - note there are British military cemeteries in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Gallipoli, Germany, France, Holland, Belgium et al. Some of these date back to the 19th century.

(4) Since when is land owned by the British in the North going back before the creation of the Republic of Cyprus and the events of 1974 become 'disputed'? If you are suggesting that British property can suddenly be taken over at whim of a Greek Cypriot like yourself, I suggest you are marching to a different tune to most of your countrymen. By the way, where do you live today?

(5) If the UK Government is not involved with the project, what's your beef about individual Members of Parliament and retired senior military officers from giving their private support? Just as I hope you are citizen with freedom to act as you see fit, within the law, why can't they? Just because you disagree with them, it's a tad arrogant to question their rights to act according to their conscience.

I know I may be causing you and others offense, but I must ask how you define 'terrorist' and 'terrorism'?

I choose my words carefully and hope the reader will read them carefully, too, understanding I speak only for myself and nobody else.

All the best
David - still retired, still relaxed.

Dear Mr. Carter,

If the government of the Republic of Cyprus has agreed to the siting of a memorial then that is one thing. If it has expressed its dissatisfaction with such a proposal then to over-ride its wishes and actively lobby for such a memorial in an area of its territory currently under occupation is insensitive to say the least. It makes no difference if the site under proposal is "sovereign British territory". The British are guests in Cyprus and the legacy of British involvement in recent Cypriot history is a hot issue and the cause of much ill-feeling. You do well to consider the sensitivities of the Cypriots in this matter. To dismiss the considered will of the sovereign government of the Republic of Cyprus will do nothing to ease the suspicion that British attitudes towards Cyprus have changed little in the intervening years.

[miltiades]

ATTENTION MR. MILTIADES

Re: your imaginings about who I am.

Rather than others - Mr Paphitis, included - checking their facts, I suggest you starting checking yours instead of quoting part of an article that appeared in a Greek Cypriot newspaper some years ago. It was written by a journalist - whose name escapes me - who could have spoken to me direct to get the facts, but broke a cardinal rule of quality reporting by typing fiction. Furthermore, when I asked him to run a correction, he did not, as that would not have suited his agenda.

For the record:

FACT: I do not live in north Cyprus and never have.

FACT: I do not own any property outside the United Kingdom and never have.

FACT: I am not involved in any business venture in any part of Cyprus and never have been.

FACT: I have never met Mr. Asil Nadir and have never been his guest in Cyprus or elsewhere.

FACT: I have never been involved with 'the Denktas regime' or any other administration in Cyprus, north or south. Nor would I wish to be.

FACT: I do not write for Cyprus Today. I did produce a weekly column for this English language newspaper between 1998 and 2002. My copy was usually filed from London and expressed my personal views without fear or favor. Not once was my material altered, censored or otherwise influenced. I refused payment for the column to preserve my independence.

FACT: Yes, I am the author of The Cyprus Tapes.

FACT: Yes, I am writing another book with the working title of Aphrodite's Killers. It should be on sale in November this year.

FACT: The author's royalties from both books have/will be donated to various charities - all 100 per cent.

FACT: Yes, I did lobby for a memorial for the British service personnel who lost their lives in Cyprus between 1955-59.

FACT: I am not involved in the current project, although I have helped provide the organizers with names of some of those who died, drawing on my personal archives.

While I firmly believe in every person's right to express their opinions, I equally believe these opinions should be based on facts, not falsehoods that suit their views.

You may not agree with my opinions, but I challenge you to refute my facts, when I quote them here or elsewhere.

Fortunately there are leading university academics in Athens, Nicosia, Edinburgh and London who draw on my knowledge and trust my judgment when they prepare their works.

If ever you want to find out anything about me, just ask. I'll do my best to answer your questions, factually. I don't hide my identity or my e-mail address.

ATTENTION 'ORACLE'

As I am not involved with the memorial project, you will need to pose your question to the organizers. However, as I understand the situation, the UK Government is neither for or against it, because it is a private endeavor, although actively supported by many individuals who are part of the establishment. Also, it is not being built on any disputed land. Its location is the old British Cemetery in Kyrenia, which remains British. As and when there is a Cyprus settlement, I think the organizers would move out it to the British Wayne's Keep Military Cemetery, near Nicosia, in the UN Buffer Zone.


Regards
David, relaxed and long retired.[/u]

Sir , I do not know you neither have I read any of your publications . I do not imagine you as being anyting at all , I simply did a little research and posted what the research produced.
The journalist in question is Makarios Drousiotis , the information I posted came from this link : http://www.makarios.ws/cgibin/hweb?-A=668&-V=english
I'm surprised that you have not challenged the information given by Drousiotis about you. Have you considered taking legal action against Drousiotis ?
May I respectfully make a suggestion Sir , that as an ex military man you lobby the British government as regards it's Traffic Warden stance on the Gurghas and its refusal to allow these British military personnel to settle in the UK while at the same time any Ali, Uqbar and Yusuf can freely settle in the UK.
Sir , successive British governments through sheer incompetence greed and Traffic Warden mentality have denigrated the good name of OUR nation , Great Britain.
The British government's commitment to justice and fair play in Cyprus is a bloody disgrace , just as their commitment to soldiers who served us well and put their lives on the line for Britain , the Gurghas , and who can forget the 30 thousand Cypriots who joined Britain in fighting the Nazis in the last major war.
I dont know you Sir , I took my information from the site I posted above , do I take Drousiotis word as the truth or yours .

[David Carter]

Dear Mr Miltiades

If you read and understood the first paragraph of my message to you, you will know that I did challenge Makarios Drousiotis about what he wrote about me. As for taking legal action, plain silly because (a) it's too costly and (b) I have better things to do.

For future reference, I suggest you check, check and check again any hearsay and so-called 'facts' until you can positively verify the truth. Hitler's propaganda minister used to say that if you repeat a lie often enough, it will eventually be believed. The net forums are often guilty of trying to do this, as plainly you now know.

'Traffic warden stance' - nice phrase that, is it one of your making? But I can't see what the position of the Gurkhas in Britain has to do with the discussion we've been conducting. Anyhow, don't assume that I'm not supporting their right of abode in the UK. Your list of Muslim names within your argument does make me wonder, however, if you have something personal against the followers of the Islamic faith? But I digress.

Off the top of my head, I don't know how many Cypriots served in the Cyprus Regiment in World War II, but the number is irrelevant here. Those that died, as you should know, are honored in Nicosia's Wayne's Keep Military Cemetery in the Buffer Zone, where there's a memorial to them. You should also know that the remaining survivors of the Cyprus Regiment - Greeks and Turks - have a Remembrance Service together each November in the Eastern Sovereign Base.

Finally, as you admit, you don't know my work, so please keep to what you do know before sounding off. Otherwise your contributions will have as much value as a hot fart expended in a crowded elevator.

Have a nice day
David

[miltiades]

Sir the inclusion of the" Gurkhas "in my reply to you was to substantiate my statement that British governments , successive , have had the misfortune of arriving at utterly irresponsible and laughable to say the least decisions , the Gurkha decision is one that highlights the inability of the present government to use rationality and wisdom in arriving at a ludicrous decision. The usage of Muslim names was to highlight my argument of the usage once again of the "traffic warden mentality . Afghanistan is , Pakistanis , Bangladeshis , Somalians are arriving and settling in the UK on a daily basis , some legal but most Illegal. Most non Muslims that arrive in the UK are mostly East Europeans who being in the UK are legal entrants.
This forum is fully conversant with my views on Britain.
Let us now refer to your denial of Makario's Drousiotis claims about your self.
He lied , according to you , about you living in Northern Cyprus.
He lied, according to you , about you knowing Asil Nadir who invited you to Northern Cyprus.
He lied , according to you , about your close relation with Denktash..
Well Sir I shall ask him , and trust me I shall request that he puts the record straight , he may even post his reply on this forum.

Finally , the memorials that you mentioned , I'm not into memorials and neither do I take particular note of where each and every memorial is situated , not out of disrespect for the fallen soldiers , on the contrary , fallen soldiers of the British army have my utmost respect .
The memorial of the fallen British soldiers in Cyprus is an insensitive and arrogant event more so that the location of this memorial would be in a part of Cyprus that the vast majority of Cypriots as well as the EU and the International community consider to be under Turkish occupation. It appears to me that you obviously do not concur with the views of the EU , UN or indeed the International community.
I have never met , never knew anything about yourself and I have no valid reason to pass judgement. My information came for doing a search on line and coming across the Drousiotis statement. I will take it with a pinch of salt and will request Drousiotis to explain himself.
If I offended you I shall make certain that in time I offer my humble apologies.

ps. I consider the continual influx of Somalians , Afghanistanis , Pakistanis , Sudanese into the UK to be to the detriment of the people of this country. It is irresponsible b=y the British government to go on lying to the British people as how many illegal immigrants really are in the UK.
Unchecked , this continual influx will cause immeasurable problems for the UK , as indeed it does now , in the future.
I can not possibly be a racist just a realist who incidentally calls a spade a spade .
You brought up the "muslim" angle onto this thread , there is in your comment a slight dig at me as being anti muslim , nothing further from the truth. I'm anti anything that is detrimental to the people of my second homeland , Brittain. My connections with this nation are not simply those of an immigrant that arrived here some years ago , but those of one whose family , children , grandchildren have English blood in their veins .
I also care and defend the British people wherever they might be . I do however differentiate between British Passport holders and truly British.

[YFred]

Milti, you are turning into Enoch Powell mate. The world has moved on from the 70s.

[miltiades]

Milti, you are turning into Enoch Powell mate. The world has moved on from the 70s.

Many immigrants have settled in the UK , not least a great number of Cypriots , all of us did our utmost to integrate and to respect the culture of this great country.
New immigrants have not done so. On the contrary they demand that aspects of our culture are removed in order to accommodate their own.
Demonstrations in the streets of London demanding death to those opposed to their own beliefs , are tolerated by the authorities out of fear of repercussions.
Enoch Powell was warning the nation of rivers of blood in the streets of the UK.
I'm merely pointing out the obvious , the fact that this nation is tolerant , foreigners must not take it as a sign of weakness. People arrive in the UK from backward areas of the world they must not expect the citizens of this country to integrate their own stone age customs into our society.
Some are demanding , vociferously I may add , the introduction of laws that are contrary to what this nation fought for.
I say to those who refuse to integrate , who see us as crap , as they do , to gather their belongings and follow their conscious , will they do so? Of course not !!

[YFred]

Milti, you are turning into Enoch Powell mate. The world has moved on from the 70s.

Many immigrants have settled in the UK , not least a great number of Cypriots , all of us did our utmost to integrate and to respect the culture of this great country.
New immigrants have not done so. On the contrary they demand that aspects of our culture are removed in order to accommodate their own.
Demonstrations in the streets of London demanding death to those opposed to their own beliefs , are tolerated by the authorities out of fear of repercussions.
Enoch Powell was warning the nation of rivers of blood in the streets of the UK.
I'm merely pointing out the obvious , the fact that this nation is tolerant , foreigners must not take it as a sign of weakness. People arrive in the UK from backward areas of the world they must not expect the citizens of this country to integrate their own stone age customs into our society.
Some are demanding , vociferously I may add , the introduction of laws that are contrary to what this nation fought for.
I say to those who refuse to integrate , who see us as crap , as they do , to gather their belongings and follow their conscious , will they do so? Of course not !!

Beg to differ old boy, I know Cypriots in London who have been here for 50 years and still can't speak a word in English.

[miltiades]

Milti, you are turning into Enoch Powell mate. The world has moved on from the 70s.

Many immigrants have settled in the UK , not least a great number of Cypriots , all of us did our utmost to integrate and to respect the culture of this great country.
New immigrants have not done so. On the contrary they demand that aspects of our culture are removed in order to accommodate their own.
Demonstrations in the streets of London demanding death to those opposed to their own beliefs , are tolerated by the authorities out of fear of repercussions.
Enoch Powell was warning the nation of rivers of blood in the streets of the UK.
I'm merely pointing out the obvious , the fact that this nation is tolerant , foreigners must not take it as a sign of weakness. People arrive in the UK from backward areas of the world they must not expect the citizens of this country to integrate their own stone age customs into our society.
Some are demanding , vociferously I may add , the introduction of laws that are contrary to what this nation fought for.
I say to those who refuse to integrate , who see us as crap , as they do , to gather their belongings and follow their conscious , will they do so? Of course not !!

Beg to differ old boy, I know Cypriots in London who have been here for 50 years and still can't speak a word in English.

That might be so !!!!! , can you tell me how many of these non English speaking Cypriots who have been in the UK FOR 50 YEARS are older than 90 years old. Do you know if any joined in the demonstrations calling for the destrution of the West?

[David Carter]

Dear Mr Miltiades

I don't think I called Makarios Drousiotis a liar. That's your emotive word of choice. I said he had not checked the facts about my background. If, as you suggest, you know him, I would be delighted if you were able to persuade him to give his point of view on this forum. Until then, in the words of a Letters' Page editor, as far as I am concerned, this correspondence is now closed.

Have a fine day and take time out to smell the roses
David

[Oracle]

Dear Mr Carter

Dear Oracle

(3) The choice of location is because those to be named on the memorial died in Cyprus. It is a tradition of the British Army - note there are British military cemeteries in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Gallipoli, Germany, France, Holland, Belgium et al. Some of these date back to the 19th century.

However, this isn't instigated by the British Army, but private individuals and from what I gather, they do not have the support of any Administrators (except the illegal one in the occupied territories)

(4) Since when is land owned by the British in the North going back before the creation of the Republic of Cyprus and the events of 1974 become 'disputed'? If you are suggesting that British property can suddenly be taken over at whim of a Greek Cypriot like yourself, I suggest you are marching to a different tune to most of your countrymen. By the way, where do you live today?

It's disputed in the sense that it is on Cypriot land which is under occupation by Turkey. The RoC is unable to administer in the occupied territory so you will be illegally erecting a structure which has not been cleared of planning etc. The UK has Bases here, but what they do with them/on them etc affects the Cypriots and some things are restricted.

As to where I live, I may be near your way (Cotswolds is it?) in the summer for some months so perhaps we can meet up at Waterstone's for Coffee and a chat about your new book. I may have some anecdotes.

(5) If the UK Government is not involved with the project, what's your beef about individual Members of Parliament and retired senior military officers from giving their private support? Just as I hope you are citizen with freedom to act as you see fit, within the law, why can't they? Just because you disagree with them, it's a tad arrogant to question their rights to act according to their conscience.

The arrogance is full on the part of the "private individuals". We are only asking that you respect the decision of the RoC, otherwise it looks like you are Colonising us again!

I know I may be causing you and others offense, but I must ask how you define 'terrorist' and 'terrorism'?

Relativist polysemy! Or simple semantics.

But, I don't see how it applies here since your terrorists who fought our freedom fighters in the 50's should be mourned, as all life demands. Though, not your ideology (of colonialism), which en masse this collective "Memorial" represents.

BTW

Please don't leave the forum, as I shall miss your "Dear X" posts