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Boycott "The Telegraph" Newspaper? What more?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby miltiades » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:52 am

denizaksulu wrote:
The Cypriot wrote:VP, the posts about EOKA in the last few hours - since you and I started discussing it.

You have to read my posts in context. I can't paste them. It won't make sense. You'll see what I mean if you do.



The Cypriot, are you denying that the struggle of EOKA and the aim of ENOSIS were not part and parcel of the same goal. I witnessed the anti British demonstrations in Kyrenia and the EOKA and ENOSIS slogan will forever remain in my memory - together with the smell of the tear gas used by the British army. They were two inseparable ideals.

I suggest that you have studied a lot of revisionary history books. Please tell me that I am wrong. :lol:

There is no denial and there can be no argument by any G/C that the strugle was not for Independence of Cyprus but of ENOSIS. EOKA - ENOSIS was synonymous in the struggle .
I have posted many times on this forum that the struggle was perfectly legitimate , the goal was a grave error .
ENOSIS was our goal then , the ONLY goal , nothing short of ENOSIS was even considered . We were naive and needed to be nourished by the Greek idea in order to maintain the struggle.
The T/Cs never entered the equation they simply did not matter , they were seen as remnants of a past era , they were not Greeks their concerns simply ridiculed and brushed aside.
I lived through the struggle I participated in a minuscule way , my memory as a young teenager was supreme. I remember events that I witnessed not had them recalled by a third party. I witnessed the brutality of the British army and I witnessed the kindness and professionalism of the British army . I witnessed the arrests of young kids by the British army , the cooperation that was at hand by the mostly poor T/C auxiliary force created by the British in order to saw the seeds of hatred amongst our people.
ENOSIS WAS THE ULTIMATE GOAL , THERE IS NO VALID ARGUMENT AGAINST THIS.
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Postby The Cypriot » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:58 am

denizaksulu wrote:I agree that mostly we are Moslem, I can not see how one is of 'Muslim extaction'.


One is of Muslim "extraction" if one's parents/grandparents etc. were Cypriots of the faith.


denizaksulu wrote:It doesnt make sense.


It makes sense to me in that it puts such people's Cypriot credentials ahead of any perceived/aquired ethnic connection; which I wish all Cypriots would do.

denizaksulu wrote:Anyway The Cyprus constitution uses the term 'Turkish Cypriots'. Whats wrong with that?


I don't like it; the constitution or the term. I don't like it that Cypriots have been split by ethnic identifiers. I don't like it that Cypriots have been split full stop.
Last edited by The Cypriot on Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby denizaksulu » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:02 am

Some youngsters are in denial it seems. Unless you see it with your own eyes, it is difficult to believe. I heard the shouts of E--E--EOKA and ENOSIS in the streets of Kyrenia in 1955/56. It was in those days that Karaolis was executed. I remember the deadly silence in Kyrenia. It is difficult to forget such memories.

I am my own credible evidence.

Cyprus deserves better than what it is getting now.
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Postby The Cypriot » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:02 am

Bananiot wrote:What about when they murdered innocent young girls (Famagusta) just because they were British? What does that make them?



Terrorists. Keep up Bananiot, I've already said the killing of innocent civilians (Christian or Muslim) were acts of terrorism.
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Postby The Cypriot » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:05 am

denizaksulu wrote:Some youngsters are in denial it seems.


Not me. (and I'm not that young)
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Postby The Cypriot » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:07 am

miltiades wrote:
ENOSIS WAS THE ULTIMATE GOAL , THERE IS NO VALID ARGUMENT AGAINST THIS.


And none given by me – so I don't know what you're all getting so uppity about.
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Postby denizaksulu » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:12 am

The Cypriot wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:Some youngsters are in denial it seems.


Not me. (and I'm not that young)



Glad to hear that. Yet, one day younger than me counts as 'a youngster'. :lol:
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Postby The Cypriot » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:18 am

denizaksulu wrote:
This is the link, which was provided by Halil. Its not perfect as I know that at least one murdered TURKISH CYPRIOTS (civilian) is not listed.


http://www.kibrisliturksehitler.com/sehitler.htm

If you need any explanations please do not hesitate to ask.


What I'd be really interested to know, deniz, is which of the individuals killed during the 1955-1959 period by EOKA were innocent civilians, as their murder would have been an act of terrorism.
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Postby denizaksulu » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:28 am

The Cypriot wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
This is the link, which was provided by Halil. Its not perfect as I know that at least one murdered TURKISH CYPRIOTS (civilian) is not listed.


http://www.kibrisliturksehitler.com/sehitler.htm

If you need any explanations please do not hesitate to ask.


What I'd be really interested to know, deniz, is which of the individuals killed during the 1955-1959 period by EOKA were innocent civilians, as their murder would have been an act of terrorism.



There are a few photographs of elderly people who were working on their land. They were definitely innocent civilians as were a few more. One can only weed the information you want by combing the entire lists. I will PM you my e-mail address. cut and paste some names and I will translate. It will take time but I am willing to give you my time. I will try and get some of the names of 'innocent civilians' and post them here. It will not be a short one.
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Postby Paphitis » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:29 am

But leaving aside your "romantic" vision of the war-dead and the need to glorify Man's tasks to find some justification, also avoiding, for now, playing terminology games with their use of the word "terrorist" ...


There is no need to "glorify Man's tasks to find justification" :lol:..., because justification is NOT required when serving your country, no matter what. And you don't do it for any recognition and nor do you want recognition if you pay the ultimate price. :roll:

Let's say that country A invaded country B and managed to unsurp and occupy a large percentage of its sovereign territory. What justification does country B require to defend itself or even resume hostilities to liberate the occupied areas? We all know that Cyprus has lost a battle by allowing Turkey to occupy 37% of our territory. As the losers of this battle, our government is trying to negotiate a settlement with Turkey which is in an enviable negotiating position which could see our President succumbing to demands for Turkish Intervention rights, a 50:50 power share, no control over our EEZ or Airspace, and residency rights for illegal settlers. This is not just losing the battle, but is the ultimate defeat. The other option is to let the 35 year war continue until the balance is addressed either politically or militarily. And justification is not required should Cyprus arm itself and escalate things should conditions allow it.

You know very well the emphasis and importance I place on our heroes, such as Avxentiou, Pallikaridi et al. The fallen 371 British soldiers should also have their remembrance place in Cyprus alongside our own heroes and martyrs.

This is the wrong time, and in the wrong place and probably for the wrong reasons, to seek funding for such a "Memorial" :roll:


I agree.

There are obviously other sinister motives behind it.

But we could see it coming and we could have done something about it, but now the damage has been done and we are to blame for this!

I have no doubt factors in the occupied north are behind such blatant encouragement, and as such I feel any "young soldiers who died for their country" are being sabotaged (more so than usual).


I totally agree with this.

The fallen Brits have been sabotaged by a small group of ultra conservative "Friends of Turkey" that are hell bent on upgrading the "trnc's" status towards recognition. I seriously doubt that any of the 371 fallen Brits or their families would want to be party to this. These young soldiers that were killed have been hijacked and sabotaged.

As I said, we should have provided their families with their own memorial in the RoC. Not only would this have quashed any lingering British resentment for the 55-59 campaign but it would have also been beneficial in overcoming any remaining resentment from both sides. The "Friends of Turkey" would have also been denied their opportunity of vengeance against the RoC as their voice would have been silenced.

It is time we became more proactive and less reactionary because our politics have done us absolutely no good over the last 49 years.

This isn't about a Memorial to those young soldiers. This is about some Brits and Turks, once again, taking advantage of Cyprus' weakened state, i.e. faced with an ongoing Turkish occupation, and going against the will and desire of the RoC, to erect this memorial in Kyrenia where our government does not have effective control.


The above is quite true.

What I am trying to get you to realise is that we could have prevented all this from happening. We certainly had plenty of warning that this memorial was going to be erected as their website was up for years. We could have easily snuffed them out all together, by stealing their thunder and building a British memorial as a gesture of goodwill to Britain.

All we needed to do was erect a memorial for them in the RoC. The 371 fallen Brits ar the real victims here. Their name and honor has been hijacked by a bunch of British "Friends of Turkey" to upgrade the "trnc".

If I should die, think only this of me:
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is forever England. There shall be
In that rich earth a richer dust concealed;
A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware,
Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam;
A body of England's, breathing English air,
Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home.
And think, this heart, all evil shed away,
A pulse in the eternal mind, no less
Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given;
Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day;
And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
In hearts at peace, under an English heaven. [/b][/color]


The above poem is very good. Real proof that soldiers only serve their country as a selfless act and require no recognition or memorials.

I like this one from Pericles over 2000 years ago:

Each has won a glorious grave - not that sepulchre of earth wherein they lie, but the living tomb of everlasting remembrance wherein their glory is enshrined. For the whole earth is the sepulchre of heroes. Monuments may rise and tablets be set up to them in their own land, but on far-off shores there is an abiding memorial that no pen or chisel has traced; it is graven not on stone or brass, but on the living hearts of humanity.
Take these men for your example. Like them, remember that prosperity can be only for the free, that freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it.
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