Cyprus-Forum.com

[MicAtCyp]

Garbitsch,

Lets get some things straight here.

a)Forget about your meeting someone at a cafe telling you he killed Allahverdi Kilic.Such fairy tales are sellable only to ignorants not to me. I ve been in the Army and I know very well how such things could possibly be done, by whom, how, under what conditions, under whose order, as well as who could excecute such order, etc etc.
So a simple soldier, now working as a filthy waiter (what a specialised job ha) who only knows how to put glasses in a disc and serve them like a modern slave, did it , right?And not only that he goes on telling it publicly!!!!
Like I said, please go sell this fairy tail to ignorants, not to me.

b)We may have a wrong idea about the Turks and TCs, but you don't fall much behind.You tend to see each and every GC like someone who has at least one cold blood murder behind him. Even a simple GC waiter. What do you think man that each one of us can kill a human like he can kill a mosquito? Or that we always kill and laugh, and forget everything the next day like they teach you in propagandistic movies about us? No, we are not like that at all...

c)I was a soldier soon after 1974. I did not serve at the borders but other co-soldiers of my age said many times that they saw Turkish officers shooting Tr/TC soldiers on the forehead when they caught them sleeping at sentry duty.I am equally surprised you denied it as you are surprised of hearing me saying it. I am not here in this forum to tell lies. That's what I honestly knew.
Now you may ask why did I beleive it, is it because you are Turks?
Well I know even in our Army an officer can shoot a soldier if he refuses to excecute orders or if he sleeps at sentry duty during war time or during red alert. So why shouldn’t I beleive, it could be a rule in the Turkish army even at peace time? When you don't know you just accept whatever others tell you.I was young then, I beleived it, and I carried that beleif until today.
In fact if I had not put this point forward in this forum, and get your answers, I would still beleive it to be true! So I don't deny I learn from this forum, in fact this is one of the reasons I participate.

d)You know very well there is no single evidence proving that Allahverdi Kilic was killed by GCs.Such evidence could be the direction of the bullet/s the estimated distance from which it was fired, the type of the gun, the type of the bullet, the diameter of the bullet and whether such guns/bullets are used in the GC Army.You just assume he was killed by GCs. And why should we kill one and not 2 or 3 Tr/TC soldiers in revenge of the 2 civilian GC you killed ? Anyway just by asdsuming you proceeded even asking for our regrets.Yes we are sorry for the death of the young man, but we do not accept we killed him.

e)You deliberately avoided replying to me whether there are a lot of incidents of mysterious accidental deaths and severe injuries to your soldiers in the Turkish Army.Why you did not reply? Could the death of Kilic attributed to these "mysteries" that so often occur in your army?

PS. I would really like to know what the usual/average punishment is for the Tr/TC soldiers is today for sleeping at sentry duty.
When I was a soldier it was 10 days imprisonment in a dark cave-prison inside the camp plus 10 days additional service.Also no ther soldier could speak to you. If you were lucky another one would be punished too so at least you could have someone to talk with otherwise you were getting crazy.... Today I think the punishment to our butter-boys is 10 days without corn flakes! OK I am exagerating I really don't know what is the punishment today.


********************************

According to them, TCs left the Republic of Cyprus, TCs formed the enclaves, TCs provoked GCs to attack, TCs attacked and killed, TCs forced other TCs to move into enclaves...

There is a degree of truth in each and everyone of what you said above. In this forum we take sides debating the issues from diametrically oposite positions. I personally do it to find the degree of truth. You personally failed hundreds of times to understand this. You are a good person and you contribute to friendship understanding and humanity among TCs and GCs in this forum, and you could be an ideal friend in real life. But I personally respect more the people who contribute in this forum by debating the issues with arguments and evidences.

[Murtaza]

e)You deliberately avoided replying to me whether there are a lot of incidents of mysterious accidental deaths and severe injuries to your soldiers in the Turkish Army.Why you did not reply? Could the death of Kilic attributed to these "mysteries" that so often occur in your army?

PS. I would really like to know what the usual/average punishment is for the Tr/TC soldiers is today for sleeping at sentry duty.
When I was a soldier it was 10 days imprisonment in a dark cave-prison inside the camp plus 10 days additional service.Also no ther soldier could speak to you. If you were lucky another one would be punished too so at least you could have someone to talk with otherwise you were getting crazy.... Today I think the punishment to our butter-boys is 10 days without corn flakes! OK I am exagerating I really don't know what is the punishment today.


In fact I have two friend who made his army duty at Cyprus. None of them mention something like that. Shoting? this is complately madness. You had some knowledge wrong maybe. I will ask them

[garbitsch]

Forget this guy... But still do you have any evidence that this guy was murdered by his Lieutenant? Did you know that there was another soldier who was shot but apparently he was injured? It was a revenge act, but it has no proof because Turks have no control beyond the border. We all know how effective UN force is.

I would really like to know what the usual/average punishment is for the Tr/TC soldiers is today for sleeping at sentry duty.

You've already answered your question. They are simply killed.

I do not believe what you think I believe. Isn't it strange? I do not believe Greeks are cold murderers or whatever. But I believe this was 100% revenge attack. Not all Greeks are murders, but there are murderers who are Greek.

There are other incidents too. I have also heard many G.C soldiers committing suicide. But these has nothing to do with Allahverdi Kilic incident. If he wasn't murdered by G.Cs, then Solomou was not killed by Turks neither. This is how your logic works...

[metecyp]

But I personally respect more the people who contribute in this forum by debating the issues with arguments and evidences.

You talk about debating the issues with evidences..yet you fail to give one evidence about Allahverdi Kilic being killed by his Lieutenant!?! All you did was to provide your own personal opinion and you call this evidence?

In this forum we take sides debating the issues from diametrically oposite positions. I personally do it to find the degree of truth. You personally failed hundreds of times to understand this.

So you find the degree of truth by calling TCs thieves, calling Turks rapists, murderers, calling TCs' struggle against Enosis a joke? Or you learn the degree of truth by disrespecting our dead by that "Sing that Atlilar-Murataga-Sandallar poem" bullshit? If this is the way you communicate and find the degree of truth, yes I failed to understand you.

[Viewpoint]

well said

[Yiannis]

Hey guys chill out dont start accusing eachother again now...allright?

I am very interested to hear evidence for this matter, on what happens with many tc soldiers suddenly disappearing while in the army.I recall reading an article by Sener Levent on this matter but i cant find it now.I also heard of this rumor that Turkish generals shoot the soldiers that sleep on guard but i have no real facts on weather this is true or not.

I will tell u one thing guys.I have seen numerous arguments in which a TC tries to prove that a GC is wrong in his perception of events in which is said that TCs have done wrong and the same for a GC trying to prove that a TC is wrong in his perception of events in which is said that GCs have done wrong. However what i really rarely see is TCs and GCs trying to convince either a GC or a TC in his perception of events in which is said that either GCs or TCs have done wrong.
I dont know if u get my point but the bottom line is why should it always be a gc or a tc defending his side's positions?Both sides say that is all propaganda from the other side. If however this is just propaganda then basically both sides are innocent .
Did it ever pass from ur minds that indeed what a tc or a gc leader or person is said to have done is actually true and not just propaganda from the other side. If it did pass from ur minds did u pursue in serious logical thinking and research to gather all relevant information about it and be as objective as possible or u just made a simple google search found one occurance that supports that is just propaganda and though "see its just propaganda" and closed the whole matter.
Personally i am not trusting any politician, as a matter of fact i only trust close friends and relatives. Personally i have no damn clue if whatever people are saying about something that happened is true or false.So my only refuge is to try and reveal the real truth by myself. Unfortunately though reason being im away from Cyprus i cant really do that so im trying to be as picky as possible in data that i collect concerning a matter.

Damn that was another long post.I guess Demetriou is right that im always posting long ones so sorry for the long post guys.
Just take it as my personal daily journal

[detailer]

Hey guys chill out dont start accusing eachother again now...allright?

I am very interested to hear evidence for this matter, on what happens with many tc soldiers suddenly disappearing while in the army.I recall reading an article by Sener Levent on this matter but i cant find it now.I also heard of this rumor that Turkish generals shoot the soldiers that sleep on guard but i have no real facts on weather this is true or not.

I will tell u one thing guys.I have seen numerous arguments in which a TC tries to prove that a GC is wrong in his perception of events in which is said that TCs have done wrong and the same for a GC trying to prove that a TC is wrong in his perception of events in which is said that GCs have done wrong. However what i really rarely see is TCs and GCs trying to convince either a GC or a TC in his perception of events in which is said that either GCs or TCs have done wrong.
I dont know if u get my point but the bottom line is why should it always be a gc or a tc defending his side's positions?Both sides say that is all propaganda from the other side. If however this is just propaganda then basically both sides are innocent .
Did it ever pass from ur minds that indeed what a tc or a gc leader or person is said to have done is actually true and not just propaganda from the other side. If it did pass from ur minds did u pursue in serious logical thinking and research to gather all relevant information about it and be as objective as possible or u just made a simple google search found one occurance that supports that is just propaganda and though "see its just propaganda" and closed the whole matter.
Personally i am not trusting any politician, as a matter of fact i only trust close friends and relatives. Personally i have no damn clue if whatever people are saying about something that happened is true or false.So my only refuge is to try and reveal the real truth by myself. Unfortunately though reason being im away from Cyprus i cant really do that so im trying to be as picky as possible in data that i collect concerning a matter.

Damn that was another long post.I guess Demetriou is right that im always posting long ones so sorry for the long post guys.
Just take it as my personal daily journal

Nice one.

[metecyp]

I dont know if u get my point but the bottom line is why should it always be a gc or a tc defending his side's positions?Both sides say that is all propaganda from the other side. If however this is just propaganda then basically both sides are innocent Shocked

I've seen TCs not defending their side's positions. For example, I repeated myself just in this thread that murders of Isaak and Solomou were wrong and there was excuse for them. I've also seen some GCs accept some of the blame for 1963-1974. So it's not that we always defend our side's position. However, my observation is that GCs feel more like victims because of the current "occupation" and denial of refugee rights. This in turn translates into less GCs accepting the blame for the past and the current events and I consider this as a reflex action to the current "occupation".

[MicAtCyp]

But still do you have any evidence that this guy was murdered by his Lieutenant?

Read carefully what I said:

In fact there are rumours this soldier was killed by your Lieutenants

These rumors say many things.They say not only this soldier but also the one who was injured were not Turks (certainly not a TCs) but Kurds.Rumors say they objected publicly to Turkey's intention to set up a security zone in Northern Iraq. Rumors say many things. However there are also facts.The facts prove that the GCs did not kill that soldier. Therefore if the GCs did not kill him then who did?

Did you know that there was another soldier who was shot but apparently he was injured? It was a revenge act, but it has no proof because Turks have no control beyond the border. We all know how effective UN force is.

What is this tons of crap and lies upon lies you tell us in here? First of all the incident did not even happen at the borders between the government controlled areas and the occupied areas.It happened inside the British bases where there are NO UN forces and NO GC guards/soldiers.The ones who investigated the incident were the British themselves.Do you know that your side claims they were shot at their sentry post?Do you know there was only a tiny drop of blood found in the place when the British investigated it?Do you know that the survived soldier was never allowed to be questioned by the British? Do you know that there were empty bullet shells at the steps of the post but those don't match with the bullets found on their bodies? If you do know all these things then tell me what evidence is your side hiding? Was it so difficult for them at least let the survived soldier talk to the British?

The misarable soldier was unfortunately killed by your people.It was a desparate ''pre-planned provocative act'' aimed to mislead the world public opinion, following the international outcry against the brutal murders of two unarmed GCs a few days before.

You've already answered your question. They are simply killed.

Thank you for the confirmation.

If he wasn't murdered by G.Cs, then Solomou was not killed by Turks neither.

For Solomou and Isaac we had thousands of eye witnesses and more thousands of TV witnesses.Give me your evidence for Kilic, give me your testimony of your eye witness, tell me why the survived soldier was never allowed to give his testimony to the British.

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yet you fail to give one evidence about Allahverdi Kilic being killed by his Lieutenant!?!

The evidence should be presented by Garbitsch not me! I did not raise the issue. I told him he has no evidence, and he tells me lies that he met a waiter at a cafe who told him he did it, and other nonsense and lies like that. I told him there are rumours and facts for something else. I also told him he can get the facts from the British who investigated the incident because that incident happened inside the British Bases.

So you find the degree of truth by calling TCs thieves, calling Turks rapists, murderers, calling TCs' struggle against Enosis a joke? Or you learn the degree of truth by disrespecting our dead by that "Sing that Atlilar-Murataga-Sandallar poem" bullshit? If this is the way you communicate and find the degree of truth, yes I failed to understand you.

See what i mean it is impossible to communicate with you?

You want me to repeat who I called thieves? Are you one of them? Furthermore yes I revealed you the truth.99% of the GCs you will ask will tell you the Turks and the TCs stole our houses and our properties.Didn’t anyone you met at the bi-copmmunal meetings tell you? If not it was simply out of politeness.Therefore you should be grateful to me for telling you the truth.

I called you rapists??? I said there were thousands of women rapes in 1974. Does this make everyone of you a rapist?

Disrespect your death?Just because this is what you understood what I said?Let me explain it once more: I called it an easy poem because it is only 4 villages (a poem is something short and easy someone learns by heart and repeats all the time) I said we cannot have a similar poem because our massacred villages are more than 100. How can we make a poem such long and remember 100 names? Is that disrespect for your death or is it a sarcasm for the so frequent repeatition of those 4 villages in a poem like manner?

With you yes I always had a communication problem, but sorry this is the way I try to learn or make others learn the truth. I corrected you so many times and yet you still revert with your faulty headlines. I don't expect that you understood what I said above, and I am absolutely sure you will return with your headlines many many times again.

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well said

Decided to open our mouths koukla mou? Only know how to applause in here?

[Murtaza]

MicAtCyp


Boo. I am ugly Turk and instead of killing greeks, this time I will kill my soldier.

Micatcyp Infact you listen too much rumours.

What you claim is just comic. Ask any Turk If they are true.All of them joined army before.