Cyprus-Forum.com

[The Cypriot]

Yes it is right that Cyprus is re-unified ... but overriding all other considerations? Nope!

Unified and its people free.

Because if it was reunified under the rule of Turks, it would not be right.

You're not implying that's what I'm suggesting because that would be mischief making.

If Cyprus's people are under the rule of anybody other than themselves then this is not unity.

Because if it was reunified with Turkish as the one and only official language, it would not be right.

Certainly not, O. Who are you arguing with?

Because if it was reunified with the Settlers being granted exclusive rights and ownership of what belonged to others pre-1974, it would not be right.

Certainly not, O. Who are you arguing with?

Many, many reasons why the right solution should be found, by taking into due consideration all that is right and not over-riding all other factors. Including our predominantly Hellenic culture and our uncompromisable Human Rights.

None of the above can I disagree with.

[Oracle]

None of the above can I disagree with.

I think we agree on everything for Cyprus .....

...... except making English the one Official language.

I don't know which generation you fit into (I'm not prying ), but there are moves afoot to preserve regional languages. So, I cannot fathom why you wish to sacrifice one as old and historically important as Greek.

[The Cypriot]

I think we agree on everything for Cyprus .....

Phew! I love it when peace and harmony breaks out on Cyprus. I hope this means I can rely on your support when dealing with some of CF's more cerebrally challenged members. Not for my sake you understand, but for the sake of unity.

...... except making English the one Official language.

Let's wait and see. It is and will continue to be one of three. We both agree, I think, that its prominence is likely to grow after reunification; (whether we like it... or not ).

I don't know which generation you fit into (I'm not prying ), but there are moves afoot to preserve regional languages.

I hope that includes the region in the eastern med. called Cyprus.

So, I cannot fathom why you wish to sacrifice one as old and historically important as Greek.

It's the particular Cypriot idiom I'm most concerned about.

Please forgive the Latin script and phonetic transliteration (which is for the benefit of those not familiar with the Greek alphabet) but what other idiom could give the world the beautifully poetic:

O gatos j’ an eyerasen da nisha bu ishen eshi.
(A cat may age but the claws it had it has)

[Omer Seyhan]

It is right that the island of Cyprus is really reunified. For its people and for the whole world. This belief overides all other considerations.

Yes it is right that Cyprus is re-unified ... but overriding all other considerations? Nope!

Because if it was reunified under the rule of Turks, it would not be right.
Because if it was reunified with Turkish as the one and only official language, it would not be right.
Because if it was reunified with the Settlers being granted exclusive rights and ownership of what belonged to others pre-1974, it would not be right.

Many, many reasons why the right solution should be found, by taking into due consideration all that is right and not over-riding all other factors. Including our predominantly Hellenic culture and our uncompromisable Human Rights.

Oracle,

The nation of Cyprus like Belgium has two official languages. In our country's case those languages are Greek and Turkish. It has nothing to do with settlers. A large proportion of your Cyprus-born and bred fellow citizens speak Turkish as a mother tongue. Speaking Turkish does not make you less Cypriot in the same way as speaking French does not make you less Canadian. Would you question the Belgianess of a Fleming if he spoke in his language?

Our people are united in many other ways other than language. Language does not define a nation- it is just a practicality. There are countries that share a language but are culturally different and share very little in common.

Having said that, it is my personal view that bilingualism (Greek / Turkish) should be promoted if not compulsory for all Cypriots to make us all richer in vocabulary. English will be learnt regardless at school.

I suggest we nip this one in the bud now to avoid problems later.

[The Cypriot]

The nation of Cyprus like Belgium has two official languages. In our country's case those languages are Greek and Turkish.

Not English? I stand corrected - but, de facto if not de jure....

It has nothing to do with settlers. A large proportion of your Cyprus-born and bred fellow citizens speak Turkish as a mother tongue. Speaking Turkish does not make you less Cypriot in the same way as speaking French does not make you less Canadian.

What makes you less Cypriot – if you are Cypriot born and bred – is your allegiance to a nation other than and to the detriment of Cyprus.

[Oracle]

Oracle,

The nation of Cyprus like Belgium has two official languages. In our country's case those languages are Greek and Turkish. It has nothing to do with settlers. A large proportion of your Cyprus-born and bred fellow citizens speak Turkish as a mother tongue. Speaking Turkish does not make you less Cypriot in the same way as speaking French does not make you less Canadian. Would you question the Belgianess of a Fleming if he spoke in his language?

Our people are united in many other ways other than language. Language does not define a nation- it is just a practicality. There are countries that share a language but are culturally different and share very little in common.

Having said that, it is my personal view that bilingualism (Greek / Turkish) should be promoted if not compulsory for all Cypriots to make us all richer in vocabulary. English will be learnt regardless at school.

I suggest we nip this one in the bud now to avoid problems later.

Hello Omer

Pleased to see you are as adamant about retaining Turkish in Cyprus as I am about Greek. We share the passion, so you may understand why I feel the way I do. However, I have the advantage since I have historical, linguistic and cultural claims to back up my position .... rather than simply that Turkish was forced upon us by invaders and so we should cling on to it.

Belgium may have two (3?) languages .... but they are so similar and most compatible. Indeed their similarity is through historical bonding (thousands of years) of its regional natives. You cannot use them as a paradigm for Cyprus where the invaders are relative newcomers, and their language is so recently constructed

Greek and Turkish are incompatible. Their roots are from completely different origins ... indeed different keyboards would be required (although not an insurmountable technicality) so hold your horses on compulsory bilingualism of such a (generally) useless language as Turkish.

Since Greek has been the Matrix Language of Cyprus for a few thousand years, any in-coming languages would have to be linguistically superior to supersede this prestigious Classic!

Turkish is a non-starter as a contender! Its continuation as an Official language would not be enriching and would serve only a political function ... one of Turkey keeping its foot in our camp.

So, no Sir! .... What is more, I strongly advocate the dissolution of any remaining Officialdom which permits Turkish in Cypriot governance ... other than as a commonly used language by whomsoever desires for their own private usage, of course.

Only then can we function truly as one self-determining nation, no longer torn-apart by incompatible lexical divisions.

[Oracle]

Phew! I love it ....

Ditto!

It's the particular Cypriot idiom I'm most concerned about.

Sorry, I thought it went without saying that the Cypriot dialect would be as preserved as Greek ... However, you must agree that a Standard codified language is a prerequisite as a National representative language? The only two that fit the bill are Greek and English .... and I can see you are coming round to my position about the secondary nature of English Fully adopting Greek would not preclude regional accents nor dialects ... of which Kybriaka, Paphitika etc are part of the tapestry. So, I think we are verging on complete agreement ....

O gatos j’ an eyerasen da nisha bu ishen eshi.
(A cat may age but the claws it had it has)

Hhhmm Now .... how should I take this?

[Omer Seyhan]

The nation of Cyprus like Belgium has two official languages. In our country's case those languages are Greek and Turkish.

Not English? I stand corrected - but, de facto if not de jure....

It has nothing to do with settlers. A large proportion of your Cyprus-born and bred fellow citizens speak Turkish as a mother tongue. Speaking Turkish does not make you less Cypriot in the same way as speaking French does not make you less Canadian.

What makes you less Cypriot – if you are Cypriot born and bred – is your allegiance to a nation other than and to the detriment of Cyprus.

Yes as far as I know, Cyprus is not an English speaking country officially, but in practice most people speak English. 70% of people in the Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Iceland also speak English, but they are not necessarily English speaking countries either.

In Cyprus we have a colonial link to Britain, but generally educated, professional and business people around the world often know passable English. There are many reasons for this, A) Internationalised economies require knowledge of English (and other business languages) to communicate, B) the language of instruction in many educational institutions around the world is English.

Our economies look for experts / specialists from all over the globe in different areas; it is unlikely that they will all speak the same language so when universities etc to recruit somebody from abroad they usually ask for English / French / Spanish / German as these are mediums of communication. Also, in order to promote the university to non-citizens to encourage them to study there and contribute to their economy (particularly if they rely on revenue from education), most courses are often led in English as is the case in northern Cyprus, Netherlands and the Scandinavian countries.

[Omer Seyhan]

Hello Omer
Pleased to see you are as adamant about retaining Turkish in Cyprus as I am about Greek. We share the passion, so you may understand why I feel the way I do. However, I have the advantage since I have historical, linguistic and cultural claims to back up my position .... rather than simply that Turkish was forced upon us by invaders and so we should cling on to it.

I'm not arguing to retain Turkish. I don't have to. Turkish is already spoken in Cyprus - its a official language; it is a reality and I accept it, and so should you. Enough of the historical debates....

Belgium may have two (3?) languages .... but they are so similar and most compatible. Indeed their similarity is through historical bonding (thousands of years) of its regional natives. You cannot use them as a paradigm for Cyprus where the invaders are relative newcomers, and their language is so recently constructed

I'm not sure what your definition of 'recent' is, but Turkish speaking Cypriots have been around for 500 years. Half a millenia is a long time...

I fail to understand your point. Compatibility has nothing to do with it. These are two languages spoken by the Cypriots and recognised as such.

French is a romance language and Flemish is a Germanic language. How are they similar?

Francophones and Flemings have bonded, yes, through coexistence. But so have Greek speaking and Turkish speaking Cypriots. I would say we have bonded quite a lot. Prior to 1974 we all lived in mixed villages and towns, our grand parents eating together, drinking together, arguing together and even fornicating together.... We could be related you and I?

Greek and Turkish are incompatible. Their roots are from completely different origins ... indeed different keyboards would be required (although not an insurmountable technicality) so hold your horses on compulsory bilingualism of such a (generally) useless language as Turkish.

It is the same with French / Flemish, French/ English (Canada), - it means very little what their origin is. Who cares? This has no relevance to anything...

Turkish is spoken by 150 million people around the world from Sakhalin to Bosnia. It is an important regional language and many Americans, French, Russians and Greeks and even Greek speaking Cypriots learn it in language schools in Turkey and abroad.

Since Greek has been the Matrix Language of Cyprus for a few thousand years, any in-coming languages would have to be linguistically superior to supersede this prestigious Classic!

Turkish is a non-starter as a contender! Its continuation as an Official language would not be enriching and would serve only a political function ... one of Turkey keeping its foot in our camp.

Ok so you have a negative view of the Turkish language... but you know what, it doesn't matter what you think; Turkish is today and will almost certainly remain an official language of Cyprus along with Greek.

So, no Sir! .... What is more, I strongly advocate the dissolution of any remaining Officialdom which permits Turkish in Cypriot governance ... other than as a commonly used language by whomsoever desires for their own private usage, of course.

Only then can we function truly as one self-determining nation, no longer torn-apart by incompatible lexical divisions.

Ok fine thats your prerogative but as long as you realise you are in a very small wafer thin minority. Some would call you an extremist for your opinion. And as you know extremists are usually ignored in most civilised societies.

[The Cypriot]

Sorry, I thought it went without saying that the Cypriot dialect would be as preserved as Greek

I'd rather, like Zeno and Aphrodite, it was preserved as distinctly Cypriot; associated to Greek of course.

However, you must agree that a Standard codified language is a prerequisite as a National representative language?

I think Omer makes the point above that countries like Belgium and Switzerland manage without just one.

The only two that fit the bill are Greek and English .... and I can see you are coming round to my position about the secondary nature of English

I think it's likely that, after unification, more of the island's people will be able to communicate in English than in any other language. If we include Cypriots (many now third, even fourth generation) in the diaspora then that's definitely the case.

Fully adopting Greek would not preclude regional accents nor dialects ... of which Kybriaka, Paphitika etc are part of the tapestry. So, I think we are verging on complete agreement ....

I admit this may be a romantic notion, but we might consider enriching that tapestry by elevating the prinicipal Cypriot even further... as well as, where there's demand, regional variations such as Paphitika (Bafidiga), and community variations such as Gibrizlija and Sanna.

O gatos j’ an eyerasen da nisha bu ishen eshi.
(A cat may age but the claws it had it has)

Hhhmm Now .... how should I take this?

Please don't read anything into it. It happens to be a particular favourite. As is:

Babucha bu don dobon su j’ as en gommathkiasmena.
Better shoes from home even if they’re tattered.