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Real unity or agreed partition?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Real unity or agreed partition?

a. Real unity?
23
66%
b. Agreed partition?
12
34%
 
Total votes : 35

Re: Real unity or agreed partition?

Postby The Cypriot » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:39 pm

Kikapu wrote:I would like to modify your above option TWO if I may, in the event that is the only option available.

The land percentages should reflect the percentage of total Cypriots wanting to live in the north or the south. This percentage is only for the True Cypriots and does not include any settlers who have been given fake "TC citizenships". Given the option where TC's will become full equal citizens with the GC's as a EU members in the south and the north will become part of the middle east with no hope for a EU, I would bet my bottom dollar, that more than 50% of True TC's would choose to live in the south as True Cypriots in the RoC. This will make the land distribution somewhere around 90% for the south and 10% for the north. This should be acceptable to all the NeoPartitionist, since their concerns are, that they want to have control of their own destiny on the island. Well, this will give it to them, until they realise of course, that their future will be in the hands of the settlers and Turkey, in which case, you better change the land percentages one more time to 95% for the south and 5% for the north as more TC's will want to live in the south.! Ultimately, Turkey will be glad to give back the remaining 5% of the north to the south in exchange for not using her EU veto when the time comes for Turkey to enter the EU. The south will then become one country again at 100% as a True Democracy, same as all the other EU nations. No more Cyprus problems.!


Don't forget Kikapu, under the partition scenario, TCs would not be moving to the south to live with and as 'True Cypriots', they would be moving to become Greek citizens, as Cyprus would no longer exist as a republic. They would, in effect, be moving to a part of Greece, like, say, moving to Crete.

Would they still come under these conditions? And what percentage?

Also Cyprus, on its own, would no longer have its own veto against Turkey. That veto would only apply if Greece (with Cyprus in it) chose to play it. And it may not be in Greece's wider geo-strategic interests to play it (even though Greek citizens in Cyprus might well be clambering for it).

And also, the reducing percentage of land in the north (eventually to 0) would not mean Cyprus becoming one EU nation; it would mean Cyprus becoming another Greek island, like Crete, but with a Muslim minority.

I'm actually struggling a little to get my head round all this, but hope you can see the logic.
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Postby insan » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:01 pm

Why 2 independent states of Cyprus should cede to Turkey and Greece? :lol: There r many independent Turkish states and none has ceded to Turkey but if the people of Greek Republich of Cyprus wishes to cede Greece it's upto them.
Last edited by insan on Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:05 pm

The Cypriot wrote:
Get Real! wrote:Your poll is too vague and thus misleading.

Please expand, GR. Why is it vague? Why is it misleading? I asked people to make a clear choice between their perceived ethnicity and their real motherland. The majority have put reality before perception.

Because “real unity” means different things to different people so how does your poll differentiate between them? It doesn't!

No I saw that. I found it difficult to vote in, as I didn't feel my ethnicity (or the way I choose to perceive it) was represented in any of the options.

Cypriots NEED to face some uncomfortable realities… that “ethnicity” MUST be downgraded to diversity where it belongs, and Cypriot nationalism be upgraded to the number one spot where it should be! In this country we've got everything the wrong way round...

You did ask them to renounce Greece and Turkey. Some people may not be prepared to do that.

Too bad... then they'll stay as they are until they learn the hard way. If Cyprus is all about ethnicities then partition is unavoidable so why do so many of you of non-Cypriot ethnicity try to avoid it?

You're being a little too hard on them, in my view. Remember, Cyprus is in the EU, and this will help address the issue and prevent things from being ruined. (And remember, also, I'm the Good Cop).

You can play Makarios all you want... the result will be the same.

Foreign nationalisms should never be underestimated in Cyprus; Makarios, failed to come down hard on the Greek nationalists and they ended up being our demise. All foreign nationalisms must be outlawed if the island is to see the light of day. If you want to destroy a tree you go for the roots not the branches.

In time they will all learn that Cypriot nationalism is the only to way to go…
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Postby The Cypriot » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:25 pm

insan wrote:Why 2 independent states of Cyprus should cede to Turkey and Greece? :lol: There r many independent Turkish states and none has ceded to Turkey but if the people of Greek Republich of Cyprus wishes to cede Greece it's upto them.



Fine then, the 18% in the north can go it alone if they wish and can join the EU (or not) independently of Turkey. This being so, you'd vote 2, yes?

BTW, I'm still waiting for a response from you in another thread, insan.
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Postby miltiades » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:27 pm

Can the 5 who voted for partition identify themselves ?
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Postby insan » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:33 pm

The Cypriot wrote:
insan wrote:Why 2 independent states of Cyprus should cede to Turkey and Greece? :lol: There r many independent Turkish states and none has ceded to Turkey but if the people of Greek Republich of Cyprus wishes to cede Greece it's upto them.



Fine then, the 18% in the north can go it alone if they wish and can join the EU (or not) independently of Turkey. This being so, you'd vote 2, yes?

BTW, I'm still waiting for a response from you in another thread, insan.


Yes, I'd vote yes for the second option. Lemme check in which thread u r waiting a response from me. :wink:
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Postby Viewpoint » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:53 pm

Theres not enough choice, how about 29% 71% split and BBF with politcal equality of the 2 founding states as proposed and supported by the UN? See how many would support whats in front of us.
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Postby The Cypriot » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:56 pm

Get Real! wrote:Because “real unity” means different things to different people so how does your poll differentiate between them? It doesn't!


I think the meaning is clear in the wording of 'option 1'. And if people choose to put their own interpretation on it, laws will exist - and will have to be enforced - to take such people to task.

Get Real! wrote:Cypriots NEED to face some uncomfortable realities… that “ethnicity” MUST be downgraded to diversity where it belongs, and Cypriot nationalism be upgraded to the number one spot where it should be!


With this I don't disagree. Although nationalism has ugly connotations and is a bit mid-20th century. Surely, pride is a better word.

Get Real! wrote: If Cyprus is all about ethnicities then partition is unavoidable so why do so many of you of non-Cypriot ethnicity try to avoid it?


I think there's an over-emphasis on perceived ethnicity because of the presence of Turkey's army. I believe removing the latter will reduce the former, and where it still rears its ugly head, and powers of persuasion can't push it back down, laws will exist to chop it off.

Get Real! wrote: Foreign nationalisms should never be underestimated in Cyprus; Makarios, failed to come down hard on the Greek nationalists and they ended up being our demise.


I don't disagree. All nationalism will have to be dealt with, as it's dealt with in all EU states. Through legal processes.

Get Real! wrote: All foreign nationalisms must be outlawed if the island is to see the light of day. If you want to destroy a tree you go for the roots not the branches.


Outlawing nationalism is difficult. The thing to do is to expose it for what it is. Chip away at it. Defeat it through reason, not through threats and intimidation. In short, you can't replace one form of extremism by another.

Get Real! wrote: In time they will all learn that Cypriot nationalism is the only to way to go…


But how can Cypriot nationalism be any more acceptable than any other form of nationalism?
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Postby Viewpoint » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:58 pm

Another choice would be 2 independent states 29% 71% living side by side.
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Postby bill cobbett » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:01 pm

Viewpoint wrote:Another choice would be 2 independent states 29% 71% living side by side.


... a better choice would be for you to go and have a good hosing down.
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