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Conclusions from a Poll

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Conclusions from a Poll

Postby Piratis » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:15 am

A RECENT survey revealed that both Greek and Turkish Cypriots may be pessimistic about a Cyprus solution yet both communities remain hopeful that the two leaders can reach a mutually acceptable solution.

According to a study presented yesterday by the Brussels-based think tank, the Centre for European Policy Studies (CEPS), 56 per cent of Greek Cypriots and 61 per cent of Turkish Cypriots are pessimistic about the direct talks ongoing between the two community leaders.

However, the study revealed that 64 per cent of Greek Cypriots and 65 per cent of Turkish Cypriots expressed hope that the two leaders reach a mutually acceptable solution.

The poll, conducted in partnership with local researchers in January and February of this year, involved 1,000 respondents on the island.

According to the poll, 80 per cent of Greek Cypriots want a unified state with a central government, while 71 per cent of Turkish Cypriots are in favour of two separate states with international recognition.

A solution entailing a bizonal, bicommunal federation gets 44 per cent of the Greek Cypriot vote and 49 per cent of the Turkish Cypriot vote.

Only ten per cent of Greek Cypriots, compared to 33 per cent of Turkish Cypriots, wish to see the continuation of the status quo.

A federal solution with two sovereign states is preferred by nine per cent of Greek Cypriots and 39 per cent of Turkish Cypriots.

Asked what they would vote in a new referendum, assuming the talks end in agreement, 19 per cent of Greek Cypriots and 30 per cent of Turkish Cypriots said they would certainly vote YES, while 25 per cent of Greek Cypriots and 29 per cent of Turkish Cypriots would certainly vote NO.

The swing vote remains substantial with 44 per cent of Greek Cypriots and 21 per cent of Turkish Cypriots stating they are undecided as to which way they’ll vote.

Among the Greek Cypriot community, 24 per cent of DISY supporters would certainly vote YES, as would 21 per cent of AKEL voters, 19 per cent of DIKO voters and 16 per cent of EDEK voters.

Among the Turkish Cypriot community, 61 per cent of the Republican Turkish Party would certainly vote YES, as would 46 per cent of the Communal Democracy Party, 11 per cent of the Democratic Party and 16 per cent of the National Unity Party.

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=45090

So lets analyze some of the important findings of this poll one by one:

According to the poll, 80 per cent of Greek Cypriots want a unified state with a central government, while 71 per cent of Turkish Cypriots are in favour of two separate states with international recognition.


It is crystal clear who wants a true unification and who doesn't. The vast majority of Greek Cypriots want their island truly and fully unified. On the other hand the majority of Turkish Cypriots want partition.

The only reason that TCs negotiate is because they failed to gain recognition for the pseudo state they declared on land stolen from Greek Cypriots. Since what they truly want is partition but they can not gain one directly, they are trying to gain it indirectly via some disguised partition agreements like the Annan plan. This is the reason why those who want partition accepted the Annan partition plan, why those who want unification rejected the Annan partition plan.

A solution entailing a bizonal, bicommunal federation gets 44 per cent of the Greek Cypriot vote and 49 per cent of the Turkish Cypriot vote.


All major Greek Cypriot parties support a solution based on BBF. Some, like DIKO and EDEK, support a better form of BBF, with very strong central goverment, a true Federation, return of all refugees and no discounts in democracy and human rights. Some other parties, like DISY and possibly AKEL, are willing to accept a worst kind of BBF.

What the poll shows is that any kind of BBF, even the best possible one, would get the vote of just 44% of Greek Cypriots. This means that for any BBF proposal to have even a slight chance to be approved by GCs, it needs to be at least as good as the one asked by DIKO and EDEK, and probably even better than that. Anything worst will not stand a chance.

Only ten per cent of Greek Cypriots, compared to 33 per cent of Turkish Cypriots, wish to see the continuation of the status quo.


This answers the question of who wants solution more.

A federal solution with two sovereign states is preferred by nine per cent of Greek Cypriots and 39 per cent of Turkish Cypriots.


Yet another clear indication that there is absolutely no way that Greek Cypriots will accept a bad BBF proposal that will resemble a confederation and not a true federation with a strong and democratic central government.

Asked what they would vote in a new referendum, assuming the talks end in agreement, 19 per cent of Greek Cypriots and 30 per cent of Turkish Cypriots said they would certainly vote YES, while 25 per cent of Greek Cypriots and 29 per cent of Turkish Cypriots would certainly vote NO.


This means that the leaders reaching some agreement between them means nothing. Most people are not willing to accept just whatever "solution" is proposed to them, and a large percentage of them are pessimistic and do not even expect that a good and acceptable solution can come out of these negotiations.

The conclusion of the whole poll in general is that Greek Cypriots want a true unification while the Turkish Cypriots want Partition. GCs would accept a BBF only if it is a true federation, democratic, with human rights and EU Acquis fully respected, while the TCs will accept a BBF only if it is a loose Confederation (BBC?) without democracy and with derogations from human rights and the EU Acquis.

Therefore there is no ground for any agreement to come from negotiations, and our policy should take into account this fact and act accordingly.
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Postby Get Real! » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:43 pm

It doesn’t look like anyone’s interested in these elections… Image
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Postby utu » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:09 pm

Get Real! wrote:It doesn’t look like anyone’s interested in these elections… Image


...and that's supposed to be something not to be concerned about?
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Postby insan » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:36 pm

What majority of GCs desire have always been clear to TCs. A unitary state or a so-called BBF which in the end TCs would be degraded to an ineffective minority. Piratis call this a true reunification. No it's the real division of majority and minority; like Turks in Greece or London or elsewhere that Turks r already a minority. If there weren't huge difficulties of return of all refugees, I'd like a modern unitary state that suits for both communities. A modern unitary state based on consociational democracy. Consociationalism is a must under the circumstances of Cyprus...
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Postby Kikapu » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:19 pm

insan wrote:What majority of GCs desire have always been clear to TCs. A unitary state or a so-called BBF which in the end TCs would be degraded to an ineffective minority. Piratis call this a true reunification. No it's the real division of majority and minority; like Turks in Greece or London or elsewhere that Turks r already a minority. If there weren't huge difficulties of return of all refugees, I'd like a modern unitary state that suits for both communities. A modern unitary state based on consociational democracy. Consociationalism is a must under the circumstances of Cyprus...



Isn't that exactly what we had with the 1960 constitution as you suggest is what we need now, Insan.?

Can you please tell us why it did not work before, and also why it should get a second chance, when True Democracy has not had it's turn yet.?
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Postby insan » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:15 am

Kikapu wrote:
insan wrote:What majority of GCs desire have always been clear to TCs. A unitary state or a so-called BBF which in the end TCs would be degraded to an ineffective minority. Piratis call this a true reunification. No it's the real division of majority and minority; like Turks in Greece or London or elsewhere that Turks r already a minority. If there weren't huge difficulties of return of all refugees, I'd like a modern unitary state that suits for both communities. A modern unitary state based on consociational democracy. Consociationalism is a must under the circumstances of Cyprus...



Isn't that exactly what we had with the 1960 constitution as you suggest is what we need now, Insan.?

Can you please tell us why it did not work before, and also why it should get a second chance, when True Democracy has not had it's turn yet.?


Under the circumstances of 60s and 70s; there was a divided and politically immature GC community. Currently there's a united and maturer GC community that can digest a consociational democracy. :P I hope and wish so. :wink:
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:47 am

Kikapu wrote:Isn't that exactly what we had with the 1960 constitution as you suggest is what we need now, Insan.?

He likes the bigger label… it sounds sophisticated too! 8)
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:48 am

utu wrote:
Get Real! wrote:It doesn’t look like anyone’s interested in these elections… Image


...and that's supposed to be something not to be concerned about?

Yes because the Turkish agenda is well known.
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Postby Kikapu » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:57 am

insan wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
insan wrote:What majority of GCs desire have always been clear to TCs. A unitary state or a so-called BBF which in the end TCs would be degraded to an ineffective minority. Piratis call this a true reunification. No it's the real division of majority and minority; like Turks in Greece or London or elsewhere that Turks r already a minority. If there weren't huge difficulties of return of all refugees, I'd like a modern unitary state that suits for both communities. A modern unitary state based on consociational democracy. Consociationalism is a must under the circumstances of Cyprus...



Isn't that exactly what we had with the 1960 constitution as you suggest is what we need now, Insan.?

Can you please tell us why it did not work before, and also why it should get a second chance, when True Democracy has not had it's turn yet.?


Under the circumstances of 60s and 70s; there was a divided and politically immature GC community. Currently there's a united and maturer GC community that can digest a consociational democracy. :P I hope and wish so. :wink:



I see.! :lol:

So, Insan, what you are saying is, it had nothing to do with the fact that the 1960's constitution was imposed on Cyprus by others and that it was a Racist, Undemocratic and violated Human Rights which favoured the TC's by a large margin, when that system of "democracy" did not even live up to the Principles of Consociationalism that you are asking for, but you thought it should have been accepted by the majority GC's anyway, only if they were mature enough to understand it.!

But Insan, your argument falls apart here. If the immature GC's (the stupid) did not accept such violations of the Principles of Consociationalism in the past, why would mature GC's (the clever) would accept anything remotely close to the 1960 constitution with such violations of the Principles of Consociationalism today, or are you suggesting, that this time around, there won't be any such violations to the Principles of Consociationalism.! If so, don't you think you need to sell it to the TC's first, before attempting to sell it to the "mature" GC's.?


You did not answer why Cyprus should not try True Democracy for a change, before we go back to a already failed system that you are promoting, or is it because that the GC's are not yet mature enough to handle True Democracy.? If that is so, then lets allow the TC's to take the lead in teaching the GC's about True Democracy, so that they too can learn from us.! You do believe that the TC's are mature enough to handle True Democracy, don't you, Insan.?
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Postby EPSILON » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:22 am

insan wrote:What majority of GCs desire have always been clear to TCs. A unitary state or a so-called BBF which in the end TCs would be degraded to an ineffective minority. Piratis call this a true reunification. No it's the real division of majority and minority; like Turks in Greece or London or elsewhere that Turks r already a minority. If there weren't huge difficulties of return of all refugees, I'd like a modern unitary state that suits for both communities. A modern unitary state based on consociational democracy. Consociationalism is a must under the circumstances of Cyprus...


What G/cs or T/cs want as solution is something, but not so important in actual life in Cyprus.
When a war is won or lost, the winner is putting the rules if we come to the solution point (ANNAN). The winnewr of the war in our case are neither G/cs or T/cs but Turkish army.

All these years personally I can not understand the meaning of negotiations between T/cs and G/cs,at the time neither of them can impose or agree on a solution proposal.

I can not understand why two parties are negotiating so long and always finally the request the approval of the winner of the war.

I have recently viusited the monastery of Apostolos Antreas (North Cyprus) and when I asked why this huge delay on reconstruction someone told me that the application left the offices of "TRNC government" and is under study of the chief of staff of Turkish army (10 years now). If for a reconstruction of a monastery the approval of Turkish army is necessary then what to hell G/cs trying to discuss with T/cs?

I believe that the present situation in Cyprus is not a political case which can be solved by politicians. Is absolutely a military case and must be attented as such.

In order to avoid any missunderstandings I am not suggesting here a military solution but if we can not agree on militarys subjects of Turkish army necessities in the Island (their red lines) we will not be able to find a solution on the political side of the problem.

There was a war in the Island (which G/cs lost) and many of us look to forget this.

If the case was not a military one what would be the problem in a member of EU to apply full democracy for all its citizens with equal rights to all.
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