Cyprus-Forum.com

[MrH]

Well,

Thank you President Obama for clearing up this mess. It's confirmed that the U.S's official policy is for the resumption of the Cyprus talks based on a Bi-com, Bi-zon Federation. I wonder what it will look like then - THE ANNAN PLAN?

The bottom line is that Cyprus will be split into TWO autonomous (Self-Governing) Federated States under a loose Central Government. Each State will handle its own affairs, while the Central Federal Structure will only assist the smooth running of the "Greek Cypriot State" and the "Turkish Cypriot State".

If this is type of resolution is either dismissed by President Christofias (of the Greek Cypriot Republic of Cyprus), or rejected by his people in a referendum to a plan probably similar to the former Annan Plan, then Partition, as similar to the former process adopted by the Czechs and Slovaks, will become a reality. Obviously, there are other scenarios: like the removal of the isolation of northern Cyprus without a resolution, but I'm sure the Greek Cypriots know that this would lead to the "Republic of Turkey and Northern Cyprus" process, as similar to the "United Kingdom and Northern Ireland" (to cut it short). Either way, the Greek Cypriots will need to make a conscious decision as the isolation of Northern Cyprus is unsustainable, AND, neither is the "hijacked" Greek Cypriot Republic of Cyprus. Naturally, if the Republic of Cyprus was not perceived to be "Hijacked", then why is that the UN and the rest of the world are agreeing on its "Change" (to be UNITED!).

Preceding this, it's also obvious that the entire island will need to pick from one of the following Political OPTIONS:

1) Either the reality of their being the REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS (GC) and the TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS (TRNC) - which is dependent on RUSSIAN and GC objections only via the UN route. Let’s be honest here, the UK, U.S, European Countries, China etc, etc, will all say “Yes” to the Recognition of the TRNC if the Greek Cypriots and Russian would lift their objections via the UN Security Council).

2) The REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS and Northern Cyprus (being as part of the Republic of Turkey) with its ISOLATION removed.

3) The UNITED Republic of Cyprus; with TWO Federated States: "Greek Cypriot States" and the "Turkish Cypriot State", which obviously would be considered as a DOWNGRADE for the Greek Cypriots!

4) Or the Greek Cypriots BELIEVING that they can ride this, current, process out again without ANY repercussions (which is obviously now impossible), and EXPECT to reconvene on this entire CYPRUS process in a number of years time, thus wasting even more time on an already DEAD-BEAT Cyprus Issue.

As for me, I would love to see the Greek Cypriots IGNORE this process again, like they did after the 2004 Annan Plan. This time will be different, I can assure you.

Finally, one last peace of information the Greek Cypriot of Today should consider is how the have historically said “NO, NEVER” to a Cyprus Resolution policy, and then have MYSTERIOUSLY accepted them! Like, for instance, Turkey’s idea of either a federation split by SIX Cantons, and or, TWO Federated States. In the Past, to the Greek Cypriots, these two scenarios WERE completely unacceptable and out of the question, while TODAY we have our two leaders sitting around a table discussing a resolution based on a Bi-Com, Bi-Com Federation based on Two Constituent States!

While the Turkish Cypriots base their policies on the “Realities” of the Cyprus issue, I think it’s High Time that the Greek Cypriots moved from their imaginary Cyprus scenarios. It's become overwhelmingly evident that the world, including EUROPE, are becoming very tiresome of waiting for the Greek Cypriot to agree on a Realistic solution to the Cyprus problem based on a PARTNERSHIP of the ISLAND, where even Great leaders like President OBAMA are evening hinting on those very scenarios the Greek Cypriots had so vehemently always said "OXI" to in the past.

IT'S TIME FOR A CHANGE!


Any disputes on the above?

[YFred]

Well,

Thank you President Obama for clearing up this mess. It's confirmed that the U.S's official policy is for the resumption of the Cyprus talks based on a Bi-com, Bi-zon Federation. I wonder what it will look like then - THE ANNAN PLAN?

The bottom line is that Cyprus will be split into TWO autonomous (Self-Governing) Federated States under a loose Central Government. Each State will handle its own affairs, while the Central Federal Structure will only assist the smooth running of the "Greek Cypriot State" and the "Turkish Cypriot State".

If this is type of resolution is either dismissed by President Christofias (of the Greek Cypriot Republic of Cyprus), or rejected by his people in a referendum to a plan probably similar to the former Annan Plan, then Partition, as similar to the former process adopted by the Czechs and Slovaks, will become a reality. Obviously, there are other scenarios: like the removal of the isolation of northern Cyprus without a resolution, but I'm sure the Greek Cypriots know that this would lead to the "Republic of Turkey and Northern Cyprus" process, as similar to the "United Kingdom and Northern Ireland" (to cut it short). Either way, the Greek Cypriots will need to make a conscious decision as the isolation of Northern Cyprus is unsustainable, AND, neither is the "hijacked" Greek Cypriot Republic of Cyprus. Naturally, if the Republic of Cyprus was not perceived to be "Hijacked", then why is that the UN and the rest of the world are agreeing on its "Change" (to be UNITED!).

Preceding this, it's also obvious that the entire island will need to pick from one of the following Political OPTIONS:

1) Either the reality of their being the REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS (GC) and the TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS (TRNC) - which is dependent on RUSSIAN and GC objections only via the UN route. Let’s be honest here, the UK, U.S, European Countries, China etc, etc, will all say “Yes” to the Recognition of the TRNC if the Greek Cypriots and Russian would lift their objections via the UN Security Council).

2) The REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS and Northern Cyprus (being as part of the Republic of Turkey) with its ISOLATION removed.

3) The UNITED Republic of Cyprus; with TWO Federated States: "Greek Cypriot States" and the "Turkish Cypriot State", which obviously would be considered as a DOWNGRADE for the Greek Cypriots!

4) Or the Greek Cypriots BELIEVING that they can ride this, current, process out again without ANY repercussions (which is obviously now impossible), and EXPECT to reconvene on this entire CYPRUS process in a number of years time, thus wasting even more time on an already DEAD-BEAT Cyprus Issue.

As for me, I would love to see the Greek Cypriots IGNORE this process again, like they did after the 2004 Annan Plan. This time will be different, I can assure you.

Finally, one last peace of information the Greek Cypriot of Today should consider is how the have historically said “NO, NEVER” to a Cyprus Resolution policy, and then have MYSTERIOUSLY accepted them! Like, for instance, Turkey’s idea of either a federation split by SIX Cantons, and or, TWO Federated States. In the Past, to the Greek Cypriots, these two scenarios WERE completely unacceptable and out of the question, while TODAY we have our two leaders sitting around a table discussing a resolution based on a Bi-Com, Bi-Com Federation based on Two Constituent States!

While the Turkish Cypriots base their policies on the “Realities” of the Cyprus issue, I think it’s High Time that the Greek Cypriots moved from their imaginary Cyprus scenarios. It's become overwhelmingly evident that the world, including EUROPE, are becoming very tiresome of waiting for the Greek Cypriot to agree on a Realistic solution to the Cyprus problem based on a PARTNERSHIP of the ISLAND, where even Great leaders like President OBAMA are evening hinting on those very scenarios the Greek Cypriots had so vehemently always said "OXI" to in the past.

IT'S TIME FOR A CHANGE!


Any disputes on the above?

MrH, please not so much noise, you will wake up the lemmings and in particular the chief lemming himself.
Can we have somebody with a board by the (Gremmo) cliff top to count how many go overboard today.

[EPSILON]

Well,

Thank you President Obama for clearing up this mess. It's confirmed that the U.S's official policy is for the resumption of the Cyprus talks based on a Bi-com, Bi-zon Federation. I wonder what it will look like then - THE ANNAN PLAN?

The bottom line is that Cyprus will be split into TWO autonomous (Self-Governing) Federated States under a loose Central Government. Each State will handle its own affairs, while the Central Federal Structure will only assist the smooth running of the "Greek Cypriot State" and the "Turkish Cypriot State".

If this is type of resolution is either dismissed by President Christofias (of the Greek Cypriot Republic of Cyprus), or rejected by his people in a referendum to a plan probably similar to the former Annan Plan, then Partition, as similar to the former process adopted by the Czechs and Slovaks, will become a reality. Obviously, there are other scenarios: like the removal of the isolation of northern Cyprus without a resolution, but I'm sure the Greek Cypriots know that this would lead to the "Republic of Turkey and Northern Cyprus" process, as similar to the "United Kingdom and Northern Ireland" (to cut it short). Either way, the Greek Cypriots will need to make a conscious decision as the isolation of Northern Cyprus is unsustainable, AND, neither is the "hijacked" Greek Cypriot Republic of Cyprus. Naturally, if the Republic of Cyprus was not perceived to be "Hijacked", then why is that the UN and the rest of the world are agreeing on its "Change" (to be UNITED!).

Preceding this, it's also obvious that the entire island will need to pick from one of the following Political OPTIONS:

1) Either the reality of their being the REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS (GC) and the TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS (TRNC) - which is dependent on RUSSIAN and GC objections only via the UN route. Let’s be honest here, the UK, U.S, European Countries, China etc, etc, will all say “Yes” to the Recognition of the TRNC if the Greek Cypriots and Russian would lift their objections via the UN Security Council).

2) The REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS and Northern Cyprus (being as part of the Republic of Turkey) with its ISOLATION removed.

3) The UNITED Republic of Cyprus; with TWO Federated States: "Greek Cypriot States" and the "Turkish Cypriot State", which obviously would be considered as a DOWNGRADE for the Greek Cypriots!

4) Or the Greek Cypriots BELIEVING that they can ride this, current, process out again without ANY repercussions (which is obviously now impossible), and EXPECT to reconvene on this entire CYPRUS process in a number of years time, thus wasting even more time on an already DEAD-BEAT Cyprus Issue.

As for me, I would love to see the Greek Cypriots IGNORE this process again, like they did after the 2004 Annan Plan. This time will be different, I can assure you.

Finally, one last peace of information the Greek Cypriot of Today should consider is how the have historically said “NO, NEVER” to a Cyprus Resolution policy, and then have MYSTERIOUSLY accepted them! Like, for instance, Turkey’s idea of either a federation split by SIX Cantons, and or, TWO Federated States. In the Past, to the Greek Cypriots, these two scenarios WERE completely unacceptable and out of the question, while TODAY we have our two leaders sitting around a table discussing a resolution based on a Bi-Com, Bi-Com Federation based on Two Constituent States!

While the Turkish Cypriots base their policies on the “Realities” of the Cyprus issue, I think it’s High Time that the Greek Cypriots moved from their imaginary Cyprus scenarios. It's become overwhelmingly evident that the world, including EUROPE, are becoming very tiresome of waiting for the Greek Cypriot to agree on a Realistic solution to the Cyprus problem based on a PARTNERSHIP of the ISLAND, where even Great leaders like President OBAMA are evening hinting on those very scenarios the Greek Cypriots had so vehemently always said "OXI" to in the past.

IT'S TIME FOR A CHANGE!


Any disputes on the above?

We just have towait some more years (5-7) until G/cs leadership suceed to convists Greek population of the Island that a kind of TAKSIM is the best solution. Personally I believe that the most of the G/cs leaders were/are ready to sign such an agreement - the only thing which stop them until now is the public opinion which of course can be changed with the necessary time and USA money. -Exempt of course if a different leader appears suddently in the G/cs side and destroy the very well organized plan.

[DT.]

There will be no partition of this island and no recognition of this island without a GC signature to it. The more noise you make about this the more desperate you sound that you will face another 35 years of isolation. We will continue as the legitimate government of Cyprus enjoying our full rights and privileges within the EU until a solution is found that is acceptable to us. You on theother hand can enjoy your partneship with the settlers and a bankrupt society.


You may continue your singing and dancing now.

[YFred]

So far 2 and counting.

[EPSILON]

So far 2 and counting.

It seems that the most clever of all is you.

[observer]

An interesting article from the London Daily News
http://www.thelondondailynews.com/obama ... -2674.html

I don't think that it is accurate in every detail, but it is an indication that the the international community is becoming tired of GCs who want everything to be as it was pre-74 but better.

Editorial

The highly effective Turkish presence at the G20 in London and with the visit of President Obama to Ankara Monday, the speculation in diplomatic circles in Washington is that President Obama is ready to make a deal with Turkey over Cyprus, in exchange for greater co-operation in the Middle East.

The London Daily News who spoke with the delegation of President Erdogan at the G20 hinted that Washington is prepared to support a confederal solution to the Cyprus problem, giving the Turkish north a much more "enhanced role" internationally.

The Turkish north would be allowed to negotiate with international bodies and be allowed to agree bi-lateral agreements with international organisations in this new arrangement.

Sources close to Hillary Clinton the Secretary of State for the United States underlined the significance the US relationship with Turkey and that a "package of agreements" with Ankara had been formulated to allow the US to use Turkeys good relations with Syria and other Islamic states in the region to push for a solution in the Middle East.

Senior Turkish diplomats in London were "pleased and confident" that a deal over Cyprus would be made in Ankara when President Obama makes his first visit to Turkey as President.

In addition the concession made by Turkey to agree to the former Danish Prime Minister as the new Secretary General of NATO has come at a price, again believed to be a greater role for Turkey in the Mid-East talks and an "enhanced role" for the Turkish Cypriots in Cyprus.


The Greek lobby have filed their objections at speculation that the leader of the Turkish north Mr Talat would be meeting Hillary Clinton as a head of state. This is still being organised according to sources close to President Obama during his visit to Turkey.

The Cyprus talks have stalled over disputes over property rights of the Greek Cypriots and the role of the Turkish army in Cyprus. Mr Mehmet Ali Talat is quoted by CNN Turk as saying:

"There is no reason for not concluding this matter. Cyprus issue can be and should be solved by the end of 2009

[EPSILON]

An interesting article from the London Daily News
http://www.thelondondailynews.com/obama ... -2674.html

I don't think that it is accurate in every detail, but it is an indication that the the international community is becoming tired of GCs who want everything to be as it was pre-74 but better.

Editorial

The highly effective Turkish presence at the G20 in London and with the visit of President Obama to Ankara Monday, the speculation in diplomatic circles in Washington is that President Obama is ready to make a deal with Turkey over Cyprus, in exchange for greater co-operation in the Middle East.

The London Daily News who spoke with the delegation of President Erdogan at the G20 hinted that Washington is prepared to support a confederal solution to the Cyprus problem, giving the Turkish north a much more "enhanced role" internationally.

The Turkish north would be allowed to negotiate with international bodies and be allowed to agree bi-lateral agreements with international organisations in this new arrangement.

Sources close to Hillary Clinton the Secretary of State for the United States underlined the significance the US relationship with Turkey and that a "package of agreements" with Ankara had been formulated to allow the US to use Turkeys good relations with Syria and other Islamic states in the region to push for a solution in the Middle East.

Senior Turkish diplomats in London were "pleased and confident" that a deal over Cyprus would be made in Ankara when President Obama makes his first visit to Turkey as President.

In addition the concession made by Turkey to agree to the former Danish Prime Minister as the new Secretary General of NATO has come at a price, again believed to be a greater role for Turkey in the Mid-East talks and an "enhanced role" for the Turkish Cypriots in Cyprus.


The Greek lobby have filed their objections at speculation that the leader of the Turkish north Mr Talat would be meeting Hillary Clinton as a head of state. This is still being organised according to sources close to President Obama during his visit to Turkey.

The Cyprus talks have stalled over disputes over property rights of the Greek Cypriots and the role of the Turkish army in Cyprus. Mr Mehmet Ali Talat is quoted by CNN Turk as saying:

"There is no reason for not concluding this matter. Cyprus issue can be and should be solved by the end of 2009

This exactly what i mean. just 4-7 years more and G/cs will be ready for partition - if they wait further then possible they will start demostrations for Union with Turkey!!!!40 years propaganta is sufficient to change the mind of some thousands Greeks.-

[Jerry]

You seem to forget the legal implications of the property issue. The Greek Cypriot property in the north can only legally be handed over to a "Turkish Cypriot State" with the agreement of the legal owners. If the UN or anyone else sanctions its transfer without the consent of the GCs then it is in breach of the UN Charter. Any form of bi-zonality is a half way house to complete partition. The more "independent" the north wishes to be the more land it will have to return, 7% is not nearly enough.

[Nikitas]

Federation by definition is ONE unit. Your description is more one of confederation which is a union of TWO units.

Whether it is one or the other, it does not make much difference. The most important aspect of any solution was, is and always will be TERRITORY.

The GC official negotiating side chose since the very start, the agreements of Makarios Denktash and all subsequent restatements to ingore this simple matter. The GC emphasis has been on the political aspect and left the territorial issue as a secondary matter. BIG MISTAKE!

Nor is the territory a matter to be left to the give and take stage, ie the more autonomy the TC side has the more territory it will have to return.

Territory, in all its aspect, size, proportion, shape, limitations, coastline percentage etc is the root issue.

It is not too late to go back to basics on this. I hope.......

Anyone who thinks that a federation, of any grade of cohesion, between an EU state in the south and a Kemalist state in the north, can last indefinitely, is deluding himself. Which is why territory must be settled before any other issue.