Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

The Greek embezzlement of Cypriot heritage...


Civilization:

The Cypriots had started building organized settlements like the one at Choirokoitia, from way back in 7000 BC! This the oldest sign of human civilization in the entire region!

“Choirokoitia (also known as Khirokitia) is one of the most important prehistorical sites in the eastern Mediterranean area. The site is only partly recovered, and archaelogical work is still going on.”

http://www.worldheritagesite.org/sites/ ... oitia.html

It took another whopping 5,000 years before anything of interest appeared on modern Greece’s territory! (Minoan and Early Helladic civilizations at around 2,000 BC)


Language:

The birthplace of the Greek Alphabet has been identified as Cyprus…

“Using phonetic evidence, Woodard argues that the scribes who adapted the Greek alphabet from the Phoenician consonantal script were accustomed to writing Greek in the syllabic script of Cyprus.

"This has enormous implications for the history of the alphabet," Woodard says. "I think for the first time we can confidently pinpoint where the Greeks developed the alphabet, which has been a big unknown."

http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/3208.html

The earliest Cypriot inscriptions found that used the Cypriot script date back to around 1500BC, a time when the corresponding ancient people living on modern mainland Greece lived in the dark!


Religion:

Is the Eastern Orthodox Christian denomination Greek? I don’t think so…

“Historically, the contemporary Orthodox church stands in direct continuity with the earliest Christian communities founded in regions of the Eastern Mediterranean by the apostles of Jesus. The subsequent destinies of Christianity in those areas were shaped by the transfer of the imperial capital from Rome to Constantinople by Constantine I. As a consequence, during the first 8 centuries of Christian history most major intellectual, cultural, and social developments in the Christian church also took place in that region; for example, all ecumenical councils of that period met either in Constantinople or in its vicinity. Missionaries, coming from Constantinople, converted the Slavs and other peoples of Eastern Europe to Christianity and translated Scripture and liturgical texts into the vernacular languages used in the various regions. Thus, the liturgy, traditions, and practices of the church of Constantinople were adopted by all and still provide the basic patterns and ethos of contemporary Orthodoxy.”

http://mb-soft.com/believe/txc/orthodox.htm

So which countries lie in the Eastern Mediterranean? Cyprus and the Middle Eastern countries of course! And who was this Constantine I who took Christianity to Constantinople from its Eastern Mediterranean birthplace?

Constantine I, was a Roman emperor in the capital of the Roman Empire of the time called “Constantinople”! There was nothing Greek about him or his capital!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I



What does the Bible have to say about Cyprus?

The Bible makes it clear that among other things the Cypriots had spread the Gospel to Greeks…

Acts 11:20: “Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus.”

Acts 21:16: “Some of the disciples from Caesarea accompanied us and brought us to the home of Mnason, where we were to stay. He was a man from Cyprus and one of the early disciples.”

Isaiah 23:1: “Wail, O ships of Tarshish! For Tyre is destroyed and left without house or harbor. From the land of Cyprus word has come to them.”

Ezekiel 27:6: “Of oaks from Bashan they made your oars; of cypress wood from the coasts of Cyprus they made your deck, inlaid with ivory.”

Acts 4:36: “Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means Son of Encouragement),”


So what is “Culture” that Cypriotism is based on?

“The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.”

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ... ry/culture


And what is “Mythology” that Greek “Hellenism” is based on?

“A body or collection of myths belonging to a people and addressing their origin, history, deities, ancestors, and heroes.”

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ... /mythology



Conclusion: The modern Greeks have pinched the rich ancient culture of Cypriots, repackaged it as their own and sold it right back to Cyprus as part of their mythological “Hellenism” campaign starting from the early 1800s, at a time when Ottoman suppression of Cyprus kept the Cypriots in the dark about their glorious heritage!


Regards, GR.

[utu]

You sound like an archeologist, GR. Don't forget though "X" never ever marks the spot...

[Get Real!]

You sound like an archeologist, GR. Don't forget though "X" never ever marks the spot...

You sure?

[utu]

You sound like an archeologist, GR. Don't forget though "X" never ever marks the spot...

You sure?

Boy, did I walk into that one!

[Piratis]

Civilization:

The Cypriots had started building organized settlements like the one at Choirokoitia, from way back in 7000 BC! This the oldest sign of human civilization in the entire region!

“Choirokoitia (also known as Khirokitia) is one of the most important prehistorical sites in the eastern Mediterranean area. The site is only partly recovered, and archaelogical work is still going on.”

http://www.worldheritagesite.org/sites/ ... oitia.html

It took another whopping 5,000 years before anything of interest appeared on modern Greece’s territory! (Minoan and Early Helladic civilizations at around 2,000 BC)

Chirokitia was not a "civilization" but a prehistoric settlement (a village of 300 people). It is a significant prehistoric settlement, but it is neither the biggest nor the most important one (even in our region), and it is definetely not a "civilization" and everything else you are trying to attribute to this one prehistoric village.

Here are a couple of prehistoric settlements that exist in what is now Republic of Greece and Republic of Turkey:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchthi_Cave
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

Such settlements exist all over the world. So what? The prehistoric settlements were created before the creation of ethnicities such as Greeks, Turks, English, French etc. In all areas there are some prehistoric settlements. If the existence of Chirokitia means that the people in the territory around Chirokitia can not be Greek, does this mean that the people around every other prehistoric village can not be Greek, Turkish, French, English etc, and instead be something else?

So by showing that there was some prehistoric village in Cyprus it doesn't make Cyprus non Greek. If that was the case then Republic of Greece should also be non-Greek, Republic of Turkey should be not Turkish etc.

Language:

The birthplace of the Greek Alphabet has been identified as Cyprus…

“Using phonetic evidence, Woodard argues that the scribes who adapted the Greek alphabet from the Phoenician consonantal script were accustomed to writing Greek in the syllabic script of Cyprus.

"This has enormous implications for the history of the alphabet," Woodard says. "I think for the first time we can confidently pinpoint where the Greeks developed the alphabet, which has been a big unknown."

http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/3208.html

The earliest Cypriot inscriptions found that used the Cypriot script date back to around 1500BC, a time when the corresponding ancient people living on modern mainland Greece lived in the dark!

First of all GR, this is about the alphabet, not about the language. There have been writing systems to write Greek before the invention of the Greek alphabet, such as Linear A and B, and the Cypriot syllabary.

What you quoted proves is that the people in Cyprus not only are Greeks, but are in fact an important part of the Greek world who helped to create the Greek civilization. For the Greeks Cyprus is not a mere destination, but one of the important origins of the Greek civilization.

Religion:

Is the Eastern Orthodox Christian denomination Greek? I don’t think so…

Again you are confused GR. When we are talking about the "Eastern Orthodox Christian denomination" we are not merely talking about "Christian communities in Eastern Mediterranean". We are talking about the denomination that was created during the Byzantines.

The fact is that Cyprus, just like all the other Greek islands and the Greek mainland, have the exact same kind of religion and the same religious traditions which are distinct even from other Eastern Orthodox countries. So again: Cyprus is just like every other Greek territory when it comes to religion. And this is the important thing in our argument.

So what is “Culture” that Cypriotism is based on?

“The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.”

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ... ry/culture


And what is “Mythology” that Greek “Hellenism” is based on?

“A body or collection of myths belonging to a people and addressing their origin, history, deities, ancestors, and heroes.”

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ... /mythology

You are again shooting yourself on the foot GR. Our culture ("socially transmitted behavior patterns"...) are all Greek. Our language, religion, beliefs etc which is what is transmitted through the centuries and millenia from one generation to the next are all in fact Greek.

On the other hand what is transmitted to us from the Chrikitians? Their language? Their religion? What? Nothing, because that village of 300 people went extinct many 1000s years ago and there is nothing transmitted from them to us. All we know about them is what we found with the excavations. Still, instead of accepting this simple fact, you are creating myths in order to link us to the Chrikotians and try to deny the obvious.

Conclusion: The modern Greeks have pinched the rich ancient culture of Cypriots, repackaged it as their own and sold it right back to Cyprus as part of their mythological “Hellenism” campaign starting from the early 1800s, at a time when Ottoman suppression of Cyprus kept the Cypriots in the dark about their glorious heritage!

We (Greeks) could not "pinch" what is already our own. All parts of our nation contributed to the creation of our civilization. But if you are trying to say that the whole Greek civilization was created by Cypriots, and that no other Greek contributed, then I would advice you to go in any decent University in any country in the world and get some relevant courses from a Classics department in order to learn a thing or two.

[Lit]

Chirokitia was not a "civilization" but a prehistoric settlement (a village of 300 people). It is a significant prehistoric settlement, but it is neither the biggest nor the most important one (even in our region), and it is definetely not a "civilization" and everything else you are trying to attribute to this one prehistoric village.

Here are a couple of prehistoric settlements that exist in what is now Republic of Greece and Republic of Turkey:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchthi_Cave
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

Call him a Chirokitian, call him a Phoenician, you can call him anything but a Greek Cypriot. Its obvious to all of us how GR! thinks. Maybe we can remove all traces of Hellenism on this island. Maybe, just maybe, Turkey will then leave us alone?!

Watch the discovery channel--you will see that the prey will do anything to avoid the hunter. When ever i read threads like this from GR! its like i am watching a chameleon change color to escape danger. LOL

[Piratis]

You are right Lit. As I said in another thread the position of GR is politically motivated an not based on any true historical facts.

He decided that if we change our identity and create a new kind of identity which will be free from the Greek-Turkish rivalry, that this will unite all Cypriots and solve the Cyprus problem. This is not an unreasonable belief to have, but GR will have to find better ways to promote it. Denying the obvious facts and trying to elevate a prehistoric village of 300 people to a "civilization" which has given us a "glorious heritage" is obviously something that no educated person will ever take seriously.

Personally I disagree with the belief that GR has, that if we created some new identity that this would solve the problem. First of all, changing the identity of the whole population is something extremely difficult and needs a lot more than myths about "Glorious Chirokitian Civilization". Most importantly by attempting to do such thing we would be alienating the rest of the Greeks and isolate ourselves even further. Even worst, such attempt will not work with most TCs, since what people care about is their own interests, and not the labels. If TCs by maintaining their Turkishness can have a lot more power, land and privileges, then be sure they will not give up their Turkishness and the gains (on our expense) that come with it.

Cyprus is not the only multi-ethic country in the world. Therefore being multi-ethnic is not the cause of the problem (otherwise all other multi-ethnic countries would have the same problems). Ethnicity was simply used by foreign Imperialists by granting privileges to a minority of the population and in this way turn it against the majority - the usual recipe for divide and rule.

Therefore for any solution to the Cyprus problem to be found the first (and extremely difficult) step is to end the influence of these Imperialists. If/when that happens we could concentrate on the many things that unite us, but we should also respect our different language, religion etc, and in this way we can have a normal democratic multi-ethnic nation where all citizens can be different but equal.

[zan]

You are right Lit. As I said in another thread the position of GR is politically motivated an not based on any true historical facts.

He decided that if we change our identity and create a new kind of identity which will be free from the Greek-Turkish rivalry, that this will unite all Cypriots and solve the Cyprus problem. This is not an unreasonable belief to have, but GR will have to find better ways to promote it. Denying the obvious facts and trying to elevate a prehistoric village of 300 people to a "civilization" which has given us a "glorious heritage" is obviously something that no educated person will ever take seriously.

Personally I disagree with the belief that GR has, that if we created some new identity that this would solve the problem. First of all, changing the identity of the whole population is something extremely difficult and needs a lot more than myths about "Glorious Chirokitian Civilization". Most importantly by attempting to do such thing we would be alienating the rest of the Greeks and isolate ourselves even further. Even worst, such attempt will not work with most TCs, since what people care about is their own interests, and not the labels. If TCs by maintaining their Turkishness can have a lot more power, land and privileges, then be sure they will not give up their Turkishness and the gains (on our expense) that come with it.

Cyprus is not the only multi-ethic country in the world. Therefore being multi-ethnic is not the cause of the problem (otherwise all other multi-ethnic countries would have the same problems). Ethnicity was simply used by foreign Imperialists by granting privileges to a minority of the population and in this way turn it against the majority - the usual recipe for divide and rule.

Therefore for any solution to the Cyprus problem to be found the first (and extremely difficult) step is to end the influence of these Imperialists. If/when that happens we could concentrate on the many things that unite us, but we should also respect our different language, religion etc, and in this way we can have a normal democratic multi-ethnic nation where all citizens can be different but equal.

man-o-man.....I am sooooo sorry for misunderstanding you Piratis.....Your threats of war against my people are only so that YOU can protect your historic "Accuracy"......

[EPSILON]

You are right Lit. As I said in another thread the position of GR is politically motivated an not based on any true historical facts.

He decided that if we change our identity and create a new kind of identity which will be free from the Greek-Turkish rivalry, that this will unite all Cypriots and solve the Cyprus problem. This is not an unreasonable belief to have, but GR will have to find better ways to promote it. Denying the obvious facts and trying to elevate a prehistoric village of 300 people to a "civilization" which has given us a "glorious heritage" is obviously something that no educated person will ever take seriously.

Personally I disagree with the belief that GR has, that if we created some new identity that this would solve the problem. First of all, changing the identity of the whole population is something extremely difficult and needs a lot more than myths about "Glorious Chirokitian Civilization". Most importantly by attempting to do such thing we would be alienating the rest of the Greeks and isolate ourselves even further. Even worst, such attempt will not work with most TCs, since what people care about is their own interests, and not the labels. If TCs by maintaining their Turkishness can have a lot more power, land and privileges, then be sure they will not give up their Turkishness and the gains (on our expense) that come with it.

Cyprus is not the only multi-ethic country in the world. Therefore being multi-ethnic is not the cause of the problem (otherwise all other multi-ethnic countries would have the same problems). Ethnicity was simply used by foreign Imperialists by granting privileges to a minority of the population and in this way turn it against the majority - the usual recipe for divide and rule.

Therefore for any solution to the Cyprus problem to be found the first (and extremely difficult) step is to end the influence of these Imperialists. If/when that happens we could concentrate on the many things that unite us, but we should also respect our different language, religion etc, and in this way we can have a normal democratic multi-ethnic nation where all citizens can be different but equal.

And in addition we must emphasize that one of the two main poles of G/cs failure in their policies after 1960 was this trial of some clever (like GR) to change with theories and myths the Ethnicity of the Greeks of Cyprus. This trial, together with the acts of fanatics and facists created the confusion and wrong policies by all parties concerned.

We have a clear and crystal Ethnicity and only the enemies have benefits of fighting this fact.(Proves are front of us).

The classical trick of these NEO CYPRIOTS is to confuse people by presenting any Hellenic route of G/cs equal to Junta and fascism.
Someone must explain them that people like Sampson and his followers can not have the right to represent Hellenism in Cyprus and real Hellines of the Island have not any relation with the acts against the existance of our state ,despite from where these acts are coming from!!!

[Oracle]

I too am fed-up with those weak-willed people who apologise to the Turkish invaders (of whatever tribes) for our Greek connections.

We are who we are ... and this land is ours!